I understand the sarcasm intended in your post, but there are some guns which are "more perfect" than others. Go to an action pistol match and keep a tally of malfunctions and note the manufacturer in each case.
You'll see a trend.
I want a better .40 cal carry gun. Period.
- Thread starter thomis
- Start date
- Status
You'll see a trend.
Hanzo581
Member
Bovice said:
Absolutely agree, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is any gun from any manufacturer can and has had a problem at one time or another and swearing those that do off will leave you with a empty hand at the range.
OP
OP
thomis
Member
oh hanzo quit hatin
you are assuming i don't practice malfunction drills?
you know what it means to assume right?
you are assuming i don't practice malfunction drills?
you know what it means to assume right?
bdickens
Member
Am I glad I got that water-resistant keyboard!
Hanzo581
Member
thomis said:
Not hatin, just pointing out you have unrealistic expectations in pistols.
allaroundhunter
Member
I don't remember him ever equating USA Made to being perfect :scrutuny:
What's wrong with him wanting a quality, US Made pistol?
And as far as attending an action pistol match to see malfunctions. Yes, you can keep a tally, but instead of keeping it based on manufacturer, keep it on pistols that were still stock vs those that had been modified... That will tell you much more.
What's wrong with him wanting a quality, US Made pistol?
And as far as attending an action pistol match to see malfunctions. Yes, you can keep a tally, but instead of keeping it based on manufacturer, keep it on pistols that were still stock vs those that had been modified... That will tell you much more.
Hanzo581
Member
allaroundhunter said:
Huh? There is nothing wrong with him wanting a quality US Made pistol. I am just disagreeing with his "once a pistol has a malfunction I can never trust it again" mentality. Every gun from every manufacturer has at one time had issues. No gun is perfect, that's all I was trying to get across.
allaroundhunter
Member
Ah, my bad
Honestly, if a pistol malfunctions on me once or twice on occasion and it can be diagnosed as to why, then I'm okay with it. However, I do understand where he is coming from. To each his own.
Captaingyro
Member
Someone asked (Post #31) if the light primer strikes were happening with factory ammo or reloads, and I don't think the question ever got answered. It's an important issue.
A failure to fire is frequently chalked up to "light primer strike" simply because the primer has a shallower-than-normal firing pin dimple. The real issue however, is sometimes not a soft hit, but a slightly high primer. Instead of detonating the primer, the firing pin strike simply serves to finish seating it.
If that is indeed the issue, the round will usually fire normally on a second attempt, since the primer is now fully seated.
While reloads are the most frequent source of this type of malfunction, it's not unheard of with factory ammo. Before I blamed the firing pin, I'd try a variety of different loads to see if they all had the same issue. If reloads are the culprits, take a good, hard look at your primer seating process.
A failure to fire is frequently chalked up to "light primer strike" simply because the primer has a shallower-than-normal firing pin dimple. The real issue however, is sometimes not a soft hit, but a slightly high primer. Instead of detonating the primer, the firing pin strike simply serves to finish seating it.
If that is indeed the issue, the round will usually fire normally on a second attempt, since the primer is now fully seated.
While reloads are the most frequent source of this type of malfunction, it's not unheard of with factory ammo. Before I blamed the firing pin, I'd try a variety of different loads to see if they all had the same issue. If reloads are the culprits, take a good, hard look at your primer seating process.
OP
OP
thomis
Member
captain, i disagree for two reasons.
but to answer the ammo question, i'm having the light strikes with both my reloads and factory ammo.
1- if the primer wasn't seated deep enough into the primer pocket, there is no way on this green earth the striker is strong enough to seat it further, especially without setting off the primer, just don't buy it.
2- if the primer wasn't seated deep enough into the primer pocket, that means its closer to the striker, not farther, which would give a weak striker more chance of setting it off, assuming the cartridge doesn't move during the strike.
3- your theory of the striker setting it off the second time after the striker seats it further doesn't work because of the aforementioned reason AND the fact that I've loaded the rounds with light strikes back into the magazine over and over again and they still won't detonate.
now i'm bored.
the pistol is in the hands of Ruger now and I have eloquently asked them to provide me a reason of what the issue was and if i could expect it to happen again. I will report back with their reply
but to answer the ammo question, i'm having the light strikes with both my reloads and factory ammo.
1- if the primer wasn't seated deep enough into the primer pocket, there is no way on this green earth the striker is strong enough to seat it further, especially without setting off the primer, just don't buy it.
2- if the primer wasn't seated deep enough into the primer pocket, that means its closer to the striker, not farther, which would give a weak striker more chance of setting it off, assuming the cartridge doesn't move during the strike.
3- your theory of the striker setting it off the second time after the striker seats it further doesn't work because of the aforementioned reason AND the fact that I've loaded the rounds with light strikes back into the magazine over and over again and they still won't detonate.
now i'm bored.
the pistol is in the hands of Ruger now and I have eloquently asked them to provide me a reason of what the issue was and if i could expect it to happen again. I will report back with their reply
Titusdrake
Member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2012
- Messages
- 17
Sig P224
S&W M&P 40C
S&W M&P 40C
LiveLife
Member
Primers are packaged with the anvil not set against the priming compound and the anvil feet sticking below the primer cup (see close up pictures below). For proper primer ignition, the primer needs to seat deep enough for the anvil feet to hit the bottom of the primer pocket and anvil to be pushed up against the priming compound. Unmodified factory primer pocket depth varies depending on the head stamp so if a primer cup is seated slightly above flush or even flush, the anvil may not be in contact with the bottom of the primer pocket and the first firing pin/striker hit may not ignite the priming compound but rather seat the primer cup deeper, setting the anvil against the priming compound. For this situation, second primer strike will ignite the priming compound - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=630512&page=2thomis said:
Pictures showing different brand primer anvils with corresponding priming compound seals/caps. The color you see on the bottom of the primers is not the color of the priming compound but the color of the seals/caps.
Different brand primers showing different amount of anvil feet sticking below the primer cups. Depending on the shape, height of the anvil tip and the length of the anvil, different primers may require different amount of seating depths to properly set the anvil tip against the priming compound for ignition.
Priming compound ignites when the anvil compress the priming compound against the indentation of the primer cup. If the anvil tip is not set against the priming compound, indenting the primer cup will not necessarily ignite the priming compound but seat the primer cup deeper.
I experienced this issue with a particular lot # of Tula small pistol primers with harder cups. The picture below shows a primer hit 3 times. To rule out weak striker spring, I seated the offending primer in a 45Auto case with small primer pocket and hammered twice with my Sig 1911. The primer was hand seated to below flush to ensure the anvil was properly set against the priming compound - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7805786#post7805786
Primer cup with 1 striker hit (as indicated by the pink intact priming compound seal, priming compound did not ignite)
Picture showing striker hit #1 and hammer strike #2 and #3 - primer did not ignite.
After thee primer hits, the primer was deprimed and showed intact pink colored priming compound seal.
Was I certain that it was hard primer cup that was the culprit for the primer failing to ignite?
To verify this concern, I fired CCI SR primer known for harder than typical primer cups and Tula SR and .223 SR primers in the same striker fired Glock used for above Tula SP primer tests and as indicated by the black fouling, they all ignited.
Last edited:
+1 ....
Penoe Hunter
Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 63
I could go to my safe and carry a different gun every week for a year and my P-239 in 40 S&W has become my EDC. A nice compromise between a 360 PD and a 1911
Deaf Smith
Member
I know you don't want a Glock but....
Misfires? I've owned quite a few Glocks and no misfires. Be it in 9mm, .357 Sig, .40 S&w, 10mm, and .45 ACP.
Never ever.
They are one of the few guns I'd pick right out of the box and bet my life.
Yes there are lemons among Glocks, like any other brand, but there are precious few.
Oh, and the same goes for the Sigs. That is the 220, 239 and 229. I've used them (still have the 229 and 239) and they are good to go.
Deaf
Misfires? I've owned quite a few Glocks and no misfires. Be it in 9mm, .357 Sig, .40 S&w, 10mm, and .45 ACP.
Never ever.
They are one of the few guns I'd pick right out of the box and bet my life.
Yes there are lemons among Glocks, like any other brand, but there are precious few.
Oh, and the same goes for the Sigs. That is the 220, 239 and 229. I've used them (still have the 229 and 239) and they are good to go.
Deaf
Frizzman
Member
I have had quite a few .40 S&W pistols. The first one was a Glock 23 I bought in 1991. That was my first Glock. Since then, I have had a couple or more G27, G22's and a G35. I have had a S&W 4006 and 4046 as well as a M&Pc. I have had a Sig 229 and 239 in .40. I have had a couple 1911's in .40 and a CZ in .40. I had a Kahr P40 as well as a .40 Ruger SR40c...There are probably more but I am almost sixty and have had a LOT of guns since buying my first in 1975.
I currently have a G23 and a Kahr K40 Elite 03 and I am very happy with the Kahr for concealed carry. The steel Kahrs haven't had the problems encountered with the plastic Kahrs. It has some heft and is around 26oz. The grip shape fits my medium sized hand perfectly and the grip angle is perfect for me too. The grip shape and rubber OEM grips combined with the pistol's weight make controlable shooting of the .40 cartridge easy. The pistol is accurate and the trigger feels like one of my S&W K frames after having the trigger worked over by my favorite gunsmith. Some complain about the longer reset but its never been an issue for me. It is easily concealed and is stainless steel with excellent night sights. It has been 100% reliable and has endured lots of .40 ammo with no problems at all and no discernable wear...AND its made in the USA. I like it so much, I have two of them.
Oh, and it also fits holsters I have for my Kimber Ultra Raptor perfectly. I like it better than any .40 carry pistol I have had. I have had more than one G27 and could just never grow to be that fond of them. They are compact and reliable in my experience. None of the pistols I mentioned have been bad pistols.
I currently have a G23 and a Kahr K40 Elite 03 and I am very happy with the Kahr for concealed carry. The steel Kahrs haven't had the problems encountered with the plastic Kahrs. It has some heft and is around 26oz. The grip shape fits my medium sized hand perfectly and the grip angle is perfect for me too. The grip shape and rubber OEM grips combined with the pistol's weight make controlable shooting of the .40 cartridge easy. The pistol is accurate and the trigger feels like one of my S&W K frames after having the trigger worked over by my favorite gunsmith. Some complain about the longer reset but its never been an issue for me. It is easily concealed and is stainless steel with excellent night sights. It has been 100% reliable and has endured lots of .40 ammo with no problems at all and no discernable wear...AND its made in the USA. I like it so much, I have two of them.
Oh, and it also fits holsters I have for my Kimber Ultra Raptor perfectly. I like it better than any .40 carry pistol I have had. I have had more than one G27 and could just never grow to be that fond of them. They are compact and reliable in my experience. None of the pistols I mentioned have been bad pistols.
Captaingyro
Member
Whether you "buy" it or not is irrelevant; it's a well-known phenomenon that you can read about in almost any published reloading manual.
There are many folks here who know quite a bit about how firearms and ammo work. Many aspects of this science (and it is science) are counter-intuitive. If you're not careful, you might learn something.
Hanzo581
Member
Deaf Smith said:
The picture of the Glock service department being like the Maytag repair person commercials just popped into my head for some reason.
Agree that Glocks are deserving of their reputation...but in keeping with the spirit of this thread, during qualification for my permit we had top stop several times to allow the sole Glock shooter to clear his jams.
There is no perfect gun.
Wife and I had similar experiences in a couple of courses we took recently. Except the repeated halts in firing were for a Kimber 45 in one course and a Ruger LCP in the other.
My Glock 23 and wife's Glock 26 were flawless as usual.
You have all these important people to protect, and yet you are turning down the two most reliable and shootable guns on the market because they are not fully American made? Glock even has factories in America. If it were my family, I would buy the best gun I could get. Period. (like your title says)
OP
OP
thomis
Member
It is so easy to flame somebody on the internet. Not so easy face to face.
"The highlighted requirements have NO relevance toward obtaining a better carry gun."
This is flaming? This is an opinion expressed without vulgarities, without name calling of any sort and is little more than an example of what honest people say to each other in a discussion.
In fact, that holds true for other opinions expressed in both this thread and the forum in general. People have disagreed with you and they've expressed that opinion, others have supported your position and expressed that. But flaming? I don't think so. Knowing how this forum is run, if this thread, or any other, degenerates into a flame war, they are closed very quickly.
This is flaming? This is an opinion expressed without vulgarities, without name calling of any sort and is little more than an example of what honest people say to each other in a discussion.
In fact, that holds true for other opinions expressed in both this thread and the forum in general. People have disagreed with you and they've expressed that opinion, others have supported your position and expressed that. But flaming? I don't think so. Knowing how this forum is run, if this thread, or any other, degenerates into a flame war, they are closed very quickly.
Last edited:
- Status
