I want a new 308 sniper rifle! Please help me pick!!

[snakeman]

icon warlord

 

[Boba Fett]

Boba Fett, that article you linked to talks about barrel length affecting inherent / mechanical accuracy, which as we know, it doesn't - that's an article for newbs that think barrel length might affect actual mechanical accuracy. It most certainly DOES affect the more important consideration of PRACTICAL accuracy at longer ranges, because it minimizes the effect of your wind drift estimation error, and minimizes the effect of your ranging estimation error.

If the goal is just to look cool and be accurate to 200 yards, let's say, and haul it no further than from the pickup to the bench at the range, then by all means grab a 20" .308. But if the goal is to get the best tool for a specific job, then.....

Quote from the article:

With a more manageable, compact, lighter, and more accurate rifle only requiring only 2 more minutes of angle at 920 yards, I see no reason to not cut down a barrel on a sniper rifle.

The range they shoot at is not a simple "from the truck to the bench" range. The range they shoot at is 100-900+ yards in varied terrain.

Forgot to post this link as well:
http://www.sniperschool.com/barrel-length-revisited/

To preface, 1 MOA accuracy was expected from the rifles. Many were box stock but all were Remington 700 variants. All shooting beyond 100 yards was on steel targets (except for the 150 yard high angle shoots and urban hide stuff). 6″ steel at 200yards and from 300 to 640 yards were the USMC silhouette shaped targets that are 9″wide x 12″high for the torso and a 3″ x 3″ head. The targets for the 740 and 920 were similarly shaped but were 18″w x 30″h overall with the 6″ head. While I have no pics of groups, all dopes for elevation were adjusted so that hits were mid-line or center of the target. On all the targets at all distances impacts within 1 MOA are pretty apparent. This school had a purposes and that purpose moved rather quickly everyday and taking the time to just prove this lone issue was not one of the main agendas. Therefore I am trying to recount accurate information as I had little time to write everything down for all the differing rifles and take exact pics that people want to see. However all of the dope and zero targets were accumulated and kept by each shooter who had 18″ barrel weapons provided by the school and 4 guys who brought their own guns cut their barrels while there and they developed dope prior to and after cutting the barrels. Ironically the only guys who cut their barrles on site, all shot the Black Hills ammo purchsed from the school. Everyone who shot the Federal ammo brought their own.

The schools standpoint which I echo is don’t talk about it, get out there and do it and prove it for yourself. We didn’t internet analyze the issue, we did it and the proof is in the puddin so to speak.

Look into the actual school, not just the articles. Find out what they do in the classes. Watch some of the videos.

 

[Dimis]

if your on a budget find a remington 700 SPS tactical they useualy go for under 700 and are very good rifles

 

[Maverick223]

I'm with Doc., the long barrel is well suited to long range due to the superior ballistics, making the shot much easier. I stand behind 24" as a minimum length for long range (750yds+), and prefer something longer. That said I also prefer something in a magnum chambering (with only a few exceptions, mainly the .260Rem.) at that range for like reasons.

 

[ThePunisher'sArmory]

I like my 10FP Savage. Its the .223 model and I only paid $465 for it used. Shoots great and handles well. My next will be a 10FP in .308 and a choate stock

 

[DANNY243]

I saw a Marine Scout/Sniper show on the Military Channel where a sniper said the the Corp was going from a 22' to a 20' standard barrel, after addressing the proverbial question: Is the juice worth the squeez? To chime in on the thread topic, I am a big fan of Savage rifles. I own 3, going on 4 and I am a big fan of the new Accutrigger. Its easilly adjustable and breaks very crisp. The accuracy is usually sub MOA with handloads or Hornaday factory ammo. It won't win any beautys contest and the action on my old '06 is pretty stiff but it is a shooter. Accuracy and price is what always makes me buy Savages.

 

[DANNY243]

I should add that the new 110 actions are much smoother than on my pre-accutrigger '06.

 

[Evil One]

10FP
I have a savage that I built... Long action non accutrigger, 26" heavy barrel, .300 WM.
Most amazingly accurate rifle I have ever fired.


Jim

 

[Babarsac]

If I was going to build a .308 "sniper" rifle I would probably end up scoping one of the Enfield 2A's or Israeli Mausers. Those have a classic look that I just love.

 

[Bart B.]

I'd rather have a 20% more accurate rifle/cartridge that's easier to shoot accurate than one that bucked the wind 20% better for long range but is much harder to shoot accurately. I'd miss my point of aim a lot less with a 1 mph change in cross wind I didn't correct for.

Harder recoiling rifles move more off their point of aim when fired than those with less recoil. Stick with the .308 Win.

 

[rattletrap1970]

Bart, Yeah, But if you hit what you were aiming at the first time would it really matter that you moved off your aiming point more?

 

[Boba Fett]

I'd rather have a 20% more accurate rifle/cartridge that's easier to shoot accurate than one that bucked the wind 20% better for long range but is much harder to shoot accurately. I'd miss my point of aim a lot less with a 1 mph change in cross wind I didn't correct for.

Harder recoiling rifles move more off their point of aim when fired than those with less recoil. Stick with the .308 Win.

Bart, Yeah, But if you hit what you were aiming at the first time would it really matter that you moved off your aiming point more?

Some of that comes down to tactics and what you're trying to accomplish.

If you are trying to reach out long distances because you know you will need to, then you get the round and rifle appropriate to such circumstances. Perhaps it is more difficult to shoot and predict, but you still go with it because the easier more predictable rifle/round combination wont go that far.


But if you are in say an urban SWAT environment, it might be more important to have quick follow-up shots with a rifle and caliber you can easily predict the ballistics from.

 

[Maverick223]

I'd rather have a 20% more accurate rifle/cartridge

There is no discernible difference in accuracy amongst different cartridges. At the very least it would take a benchrest shooter (with appropriate equipment), machine rest, or testing platform to tell any difference. There is no such thing as an inherently accurate cartridge, save for one that is loaded properly with good components (which are available for nearly all cartridges) only inherently accurate equipment (rifle, mounts, optics, et al) and riflemen.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

the savage 20" barrel should do fine out to 800-1000, since it has a 1/10 barrel twist. that'll stabilize heavier bullets just fine.

 

[Shadow Man]

the savage 20" barrel should do fine out to 800-1000, since it has a 1/10 barrel twist. that'll stabilize heavier bullets just fine.

Agreed. The XM-3 from IBA uses an 18" barrel, and performs quite well out to traditional distances expected from a 7.62x51mm. The hogs who tested them raved about the rifle, lighter, shorter, just as accurate...what's not to love?

 

[c5_nc]

Rem 700s are what pretty much every sniper shop starts with for a reason. SPS Tacs 20" are $550 (so are 26" Varmints) and the LTR20"/700PSS26" ~$850. No reason to accept less accuracy for the small $ difference on the Savage or Winchester70/FN/Howa route, even though those are very accurate as well. FNs are $599/699 from CDNN btw.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

the savage 20" barrel should do fine out to 800-1000, since it has a 1/10 barrel twist. that'll stabilize heavier bullets just fine.

Yes it will - and them spit them out so slowly that a snail will beat them to the target!

 

[Maverick223]

Rem 700s are what pretty much every sniper shop starts with for a reason.

Correct, and that reason is aftermarket support and because it is what they are accustomed to work with.

No reason to accept less accuracy for the small $ difference on the Savage or Winchester70/FN/Howa route...

Your joking right? A new (out of box) Remington that is as accurate (on average) as a Savage?...or Winchester?...or FN? Don't know about the Howa's accuracy but I would put my money on any of the others against a new Rem. 700. The new 700s aren't horrible (well some are), but they aren't the tack drivers that they used to be.

 

[JMatters]

Consider looking for a shot out 700 and put a GOOD barrel on it. You can always upgrade trigger and stock later. This way, you can spec the barrel, chamber, twist and profile. Yes, it'll be more expensive up front; but if you find a worn out 700 short action in whatever, you might get away with a real shooter for under $800. And you'd have the chance to get exactly the rifle you want.

 

[Shadow Man]

Yes it will - and them spit them out so slowly that a snail will beat them to the target!

You're kidding, right?

 

[baldeagle93]

Unless I missed something, I haven't seen a true budget for this project. That is a HUGE determining factor as to what to choose. If I were going to build a new rifle I would start with Rem 700 or Savage Model 12 (not sure if this comes in a synthetic stock, I couldn't find it). The Remington would have different offerings depending on what your budget is...you could start with the PSS and work your way down. I like the .308 Win flavor, especially for deer.

Reason a budget is vitally important is optics. As far as the $$$ go, there's not a real difference on cost you spend on rifle, but there is a HUGE difference on cost of optics! Depending if you want to put on a low end Nikon, BSA, Bushnell...step up to mid range Nikon, Leopold...or go all out with Leopold Mark4, Zeiss, or Swarvoski. The difference there is from $199-1,999...budget is very important.

And if budget isn't an issue let one of the best build it for you;

http://www.texasbrigadearmory.com/

http://www.deathfromafar.com/

 

[Maverick223]

You're kidding, right?

No, a snail can actually beat it...but the snail gets really dizzy and ornery when you shoot it out of a .308 with a fast twist.

 

[Shadow Man]

No, a snail can actually beat it...but the snail gets really dizzy and ornery when you shoot it out of a .308 with a fast twist.

Hehe. Thanks Maverick.

 

[Maverick223]

Hehe. Thanks Maverick.

Anytime, happy to give a good ribbin'.

 

[Bart B.]

Rattletrap comments:

Bart, Yeah, But if you hit what you were aiming at the first time would it really matter that you moved off your aiming point more?

Having shot 1000 yard matches around the country and a few places in other countries with the best long range competitors on this planet, we all strike that 10 inch X ring more often with the first shot using milder recoiling rifles/cartridges with high BC bullets than the heavier recoiling ones with bullets of the same BC. This is using well known sight settings for our ammo at a known range and excellent wind corrections needed.