(IA) Brave girl, lousy bystanders....

[Ryder]

Dm -

I'm glad you said you weren't singling me out since I was speaking from experience. Far be it from me to tell anyone what is the right or wrong. Unfortunately this makes it difficult for me to understand why you criticize others who've not experienced this yet neglect to say if you yourself have faced a loaded gun while unarmed.

It's not fight or flight. It is fight , flight, or freeze. Freezing is a popular choice and is generally criticized as being a reaction to fear as though it were the brain itself freezing. I say that's wrong. You need time to ascertain the correct time for the correct action. What sense in automatic flight if you can't outrun a bullet? What sense in automatic fight if it hastens your demise?

Granted there was no sign around his neck saying he was an idiot but considering he couldn't best a teenage girl there might as well have been. Evaluating my chance against others is a no brainer for me. Not many are larger and I stay out of the reach of those who are.

Some people claim they don't use a gun for self-defense because they believe their intelligence will protect them. I don't personally subscribe to that theory. Why does it have to be one or the other when you can have both? But I don't have to agree with them to understand what they are implying.

The basic theory behind deception this is that you mislead them by complying with their demands until they let their guard down. It buys you time and isn't an option with fight or flight so it's easy to see how you could overlook the possibility.

 

[Double Maduro]

Unfortunately this makes it difficult for me to understand why you criticize others who've not experienced this

If it seemed like I was critcizing those who have not experienced this, that was not my intention. My intention was to make people think. I was trying to make those who blindly criticized those who didn't get physically involved, think. I wanted to make people aware that calling these people cowards is unfair. These people are at worse, HUMAN.

you neglect to say if you yourself have faced a loaded gun while unarmed.

Yes.

It's not fight or flight. It is fight , flight, or freeze. Freezing is a popular choice and is generally criticized as being a reaction to fear as though it were the brain itself freezing. I say that's wrong. You need time to ascertain the correct time for the correct action. What sense in automatic flight if you can't outrun a bullet? What sense in automatic fight if it hastens your demise?

While you are standing there trying to decide what to do, the bg has the upperhand and gains control. Not a good position to be in. Freezing is different than thinking.

What sense in automatic flight if you can't outrun a bullet?

Much harder to hit a moving target than one who is standing there "thinking".

What sense in automatic fight if it hastens your demise?

This is what I have been saying all along. You must remain alive in order to help.

Not many are larger and I stay out of the reach of those who are.

I'm a lot bigger than a 9mm slug, but I still don't want to argue with one, and they have a pretty long reach.

Some people claim they don't use a gun for self-defense because they believe their intelligence will protect them. I don't personally subscribe to that theory. Why does it have to be one or the other when you can have both?

As one of the folks on this forum says in their sig-tag, "My mind is my weapon, my gun is a tool."

I agree that we should always use the best tool for the job.

The basic theory behind deception this is that you mislead them by complying with their demands until they let their guard down. It buys you time and isn't an option with fight or flight so it's easy to see how you could overlook the possibility.

And if she had complied with his demands to get into his truck, SHE WOULD BE DEAD.

Never allow yourself to be taken prisoner. Anytime someone wants to force you into a vehicle, or to tie you up or otherwise restrain you, you must resist with all of your will and with any weapon you have available. Forget all of those things your mom told you about what "nice" girls and boys don't do. Those are exactly the things you need to do in this situation. When you are fighting for your life, there are no rules. You must resist and keep resisting until the bg gives up, you can make an escape, or you are dead or Unconscious. And if you are dead I want you to have marked the bg by gouging, scratching, biting, kicking and clawing so badly that he will be easy to identify. Do not go gently to your own death. You must go kicking, clawing, biting, screaming and fighting, until you are either free or dead.

I do realize that there are some who would get involved. I would like to think that most of us would. But, remember, you must remain alive to be of any help at all. Running up to someone who is firing a gun, who has in fact already shot one person, is not generally considered a life extending practice.

As 1911 guy said, have a plan.

DM

 

[JShirley]

I'm going to have some major objections. For once, it's a little difficult to find the right words without having them (rightfully) screened.

It's nice you want us to think. All right. That's great. <group hug>

I am glad there are so many who, never having faced a loaded gun, much less someone shooting at them, know that they would have run to this girls rescue.

Great. I'm glad you're glad. Sometimes it is entirely possible to DO THE RIGHT THING, and furthermore, PLAN TO DO THE RIGHT THING, JUST BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

I submit that it is fine to posture and puff out our chests and say "what cowards they all were". They were not cowards, they were merely human and being human acted as such.

"Merely human"? "Merely human?" What the HELL are you talking about? Being HUMAN is a good thing, in fact a GREAT thing, and the reason we HUMANS have been around this damn long, and have conquered virtually everything else on the planet, is that WE STICK TOGETHER against threats. Concerted action is the HALLMARK of humanity.

It's one thing to be brave for yourself. It's quite another to let some little girl fight an assailant by herself, and yes, brother, I have some pretty damn harsh words for any person here who is not physically handicapped, and is over the age of 15, -whether armed or not-who is not 100% DAMN GOOD AND CERTAIN that he or she would do anything in their power to help that little girl, if placed in a similar situation.

John Shirley

 

[Zackmeister]

I bet she has a hard time respecting her brothers ever again.

 

[John Ross]

Fight or flight is an instantaneous thing. That's why when the dog jumps out at you from behind the bush you find yourself on the other side of the street with your testicles retracted and absolutely no idea of how you got there. Or if you choose fight, you find your self with your hands around said dogs throat. But it is an instant response.

I am glad there are so many who, never having faced a loaded gun, much less someone shooting at them, know that they would have run to this girls rescue.

Excellent post, DM. Perhaps my experiences will add something.

In 1981, at age 24, I was in NYC on business. I was out jogging early one evening near 37th & Lexington and rounded a corner to be faced with a tableau of two men trying to force a struggling woman into the back seat of a car.

You are dead right about the instantaneous thing. I didn't even consciously think of what to do. The next thing I knew there were two guys lying in the gutter, clutching their throats and retching.

Fast forward 24 years.

I'm now 48 with a 12-year-old daughter. I'm teaching concealed carry classes and carrying two guns and an ASP baton every day. I think about and discuss defense issues a lot. Here's one of my rules:

Unless it involves someone with the last name "Ross," I'm not going to run towards gunfire.

It's one thing to see an unarmed man trying to drag a teenage girl into his vehicle. It's quite another to hear gunfire and yelling and be willing to wade in on a blazing muzzle with bare hands. Iowa is a MAY-issue state and the county where this happened may be one where it is difficult or impossible to get a permit. I bet NO ONE had a gun.

Another point to ponder: When you see an adult male physically struggling with a young woman, you might think "Kidnapper." Ask anyone with police experience and he'll likely tell you his first thought would be "DEA Agent."

JR

 

[NineseveN]

DEA Agents abduct females? And shoot at them, firing into a crowd while they run away?

Wow, does this have something to do with the Patriot Act?