Darth Ruger
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I think each person who ran into the mall to get help got the next person to go out and help, who then turned and ran into the mall to get help, and so on, and so on...
(IA) Brave girl, lousy bystanders....
- Thread starter Drizzt
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grampster
Member
Another poster child case for CCW. If some bystander had been armed, perhaps it would have ended quicker.
svtruth
Member
Kitty Genovese redux, but with a better ending, fortunately.
ARperson
Member
It's bad enough that the bystanders wouldn't take action. But I just don't get the IDF guy not doing something. And he only investigates in case somebody needs his medical expertise????????? 
HighVelocity
Member
atomchaser said:
My thoughts exactly. After "several minutes of struggling" you'd think at least one of her brothers would have come back to help.
Lupinus
Member
Did it say how old ehr brothers were? If they were like nine or ten they are excused but if they are 15 or 16 or older and I was their father they would be having some serious time to grow up talks. Aside from them the rest were a bunch of sheep one waitress not having to lift a finger and just open her mouth ended it. Thats all it took, now imagine how fast it would have ended with a warning and a gun if not an outright shot into him?
BAAAAAA
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Double Maduro
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OK folks,
Time for a little realism here.
How many of you, being unarmed, would press the issue when someone points a gun at you?
Until you have had it happen, you don't know how you will react.
It's one thing to sit there in the comfort of your computer chair, looking at this story on the internet, and another entirely when the muzzle is pointing at your vitals.
Things like this happen so fast that most of the time, unless you have training, you will react the same way as the bystanders. You have to make a decision in a split second, fight or flight. Hard to argue with either decision. Except that if you are dead you can't help at all.
I am glad things didn't turn out worse, Daina, you have lots of grit and smarts, I am proud of you. I am not dissapointed in the others. It is not disgraceful to save your own life. It is entirely understandable.
Yes, I would like to think that I wouldn't run away, but then I do have some training and am always armed. The point is, none of us KNOWS how we would react.
What I wonder is, why were there no armed civilians there?
DM
Time for a little realism here.
How many of you, being unarmed, would press the issue when someone points a gun at you?
Until you have had it happen, you don't know how you will react.
It's one thing to sit there in the comfort of your computer chair, looking at this story on the internet, and another entirely when the muzzle is pointing at your vitals.
Things like this happen so fast that most of the time, unless you have training, you will react the same way as the bystanders. You have to make a decision in a split second, fight or flight. Hard to argue with either decision. Except that if you are dead you can't help at all.
I am glad things didn't turn out worse, Daina, you have lots of grit and smarts, I am proud of you. I am not dissapointed in the others. It is not disgraceful to save your own life. It is entirely understandable.
Yes, I would like to think that I wouldn't run away, but then I do have some training and am always armed. The point is, none of us KNOWS how we would react.
What I wonder is, why were there no armed civilians there?
DM
Working Man
Member
atomchaser said:
That's what I was thinking, what were they 5 years old or somthing? If I was her
I'd beat the hell out of them.
Worse case scenario, I'm armed to the teeth with arms and teeth. No kids, not married, and grateful
for the time I have had on this earth. I'll offer an innocent girl the same opportunity to age a little more
by playing big b@lls.
SgtGunner
Member
In a heartbeat...armed or unarmed, stranger or someone known to me I would have no issue with risking life and limb that day. I honestly don't think I could ever look at myself in the morror again if I were to stand by idly and do nothing while an innocent is attacked and or killed. What a disgeaceful way to live after devoting my entire adult life to protecting something "bigger" than me. But I guess since I do have the training and experience I know that fear would not stop me from doing what I know is the right thing.
Hutch
Member
Reckon why her brothers didn't re-engage, once they realize she's not with thme? I mean, we can construct any number of reasons why someone unfamiliar with the scenario might be reluctant to intervene, but her brothers knew the story, and did nothing. Sickening.
Lupinus
Member
If it ment keeping a girl from being kidnapped and murdered and god knows when between the time the two happened? Your damn right I would. I might not rush him but there is a hell of a lot you can do besides stand there, esspecialy when he is distracted from her fighting him.
chas_martel
Member
Hey Double,
Not all of us here have to fantasize.
Listen, I am one of the biggest chickens here. I no more want a confrontation
than anyone else I know.
The above being said, I have been confronted with the need to act. I know
what I end up doing. And yes, I shake afterwards. But, at least I know what
I would do.
Not all of us here have to fantasize.
Listen, I am one of the biggest chickens here. I no more want a confrontation
than anyone else I know.
The above being said, I have been confronted with the need to act. I know
what I end up doing. And yes, I shake afterwards. But, at least I know what
I would do.
Who runs around unarmed? At a minimum this guy would have tasted my Benchmade.
When trouble comes. . .
Most run from it, wondering what is happening.
Some run to it, trying to figure out how to stop it.
One should try to find out which camp they are in as soon as they can.
When trouble comes. . .
Most run from it, wondering what is happening.
Some run to it, trying to figure out how to stop it.
One should try to find out which camp they are in as soon as they can.
Burt Blade
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Shall we take up a collection for all those who could have intervened, but did not, leaving that girl to fight alone to avert a horrific fate? We should buy them t-shirts:
Skunk pattern, black with yellow stripes on the back. On the front “True colors”
Skunk pattern, black with yellow stripes on the back. On the front “True colors”
dillonuser
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- Jan 26, 2004
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- 54
Sheeple do the same thing when you are involved in an accident. Stare until you're not there.TexasSIGman said:
Andrew Rothman
Member
Sure, defense of other is legally risky.
But I carry a gun, and I have a daughter. How could I stand by while another man's daughter is abducted or killed?
But I carry a gun, and I have a daughter. How could I stand by while another man's daughter is abducted or killed?
NickEllis
Member
Training training...
This is why, whether they like it or not, every boy, and especially every girl, should be trained from the time they are to walk in the basic elements of self defense. Just think, an hour a week... an hour a month! Just to get past the deeply ingrained sheeple attitude to freeze and let yourself me taken. Anyone see Face/Off, where that girl knew how to stab and twist.... ok, just a movie, but its the little things in life that save you.
This is why, whether they like it or not, every boy, and especially every girl, should be trained from the time they are to walk in the basic elements of self defense. Just think, an hour a week... an hour a month! Just to get past the deeply ingrained sheeple attitude to freeze and let yourself me taken. Anyone see Face/Off, where that girl knew how to stab and twist.... ok, just a movie, but its the little things in life that save you.
ExtremeDooty
Member
If someone was trying to drag one of my sisters into a car? I'm not sure exactly what I would do, but "run and hide" just wouldn't be one of my options.
Double Maduro
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It gets worse, the shooter had a permit to buy a gun.
http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2005/11/05/news/metro/4c2fd02f5cac14b0862570b00013f8da.txt
DM
http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2005/11/05/news/metro/4c2fd02f5cac14b0862570b00013f8da.txt
DM
Ryder
Member
Against a 33 year old "man" that even little kids feel safe enough to tease? Probably me <raises hand>. I've met people with double digit IQs and they are at a severe disadvantage in any contest. Even more so if they are occupied with struggling against another person.
Fight or flight isn't an instantaneous thing nor are those your only two options. Unless the guy is shooting everything that moves on sight there is time for assessment, delay, and deception. After that it's all in the timing.
Glad I am not one of her brothers!
Double Maduro
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Ryder,
And he had this information on a large sign that he carried with him, just to let people know that even though he had a gun and was shooting it that he wasn't really a threat. After all he had only a double digit IQ and kids teased him.
Fight or flight is an instantaneous thing. That's why when the dog jumps out at you from behind the bush you find yourself on the other side of the street with your testicles retracted and absolutely no idea of how you got there. Or if you choose fight, you find your self with your hands around said dogs throat. But it is an instant response.
It can be conditioned, this is one of the things they try to do in basic training. It is natural for a person, any thinking person, to avoid injury to themself. It takes a lot of training, conditioning, and not a small amount of peer presure to make most people charge an armed agressor, or defender.
I am glad there are so many who, never having faced a loaded gun, much less someone shooting at them, know that they would have run to this girls rescue.
I submit that it is fine to posture and puff out our chests and say "what cowards they all were". They were not cowards, they were merely human and being human acted as such.
After all, if guts and bravery were that common, the military, and even police departments, wouldn't give out medals for it.
He doesn't have to be shooting everything in sight. He only has to be shooting you, or anyone else coming to the girls rescue.
Assesment, delay and deception.
That's what most of the people did or attempted. They assesed the problem and determined that being unarmed they couldn't do much directly. So they ran for help and called the police. They delayed a direct confrontation with the bg, while getting the help they thought the girl needed. I'm not sure where the deception comes in, but then you said it, not me.
I am not trying to single Ryder or his comments out. It is just that his post was one of the last, easiest to cut and paste, and one of the clearest.
DM
And he had this information on a large sign that he carried with him, just to let people know that even though he had a gun and was shooting it that he wasn't really a threat. After all he had only a double digit IQ and kids teased him.
Fight or flight is an instantaneous thing. That's why when the dog jumps out at you from behind the bush you find yourself on the other side of the street with your testicles retracted and absolutely no idea of how you got there. Or if you choose fight, you find your self with your hands around said dogs throat. But it is an instant response.
It can be conditioned, this is one of the things they try to do in basic training. It is natural for a person, any thinking person, to avoid injury to themself. It takes a lot of training, conditioning, and not a small amount of peer presure to make most people charge an armed agressor, or defender.
I am glad there are so many who, never having faced a loaded gun, much less someone shooting at them, know that they would have run to this girls rescue.
I submit that it is fine to posture and puff out our chests and say "what cowards they all were". They were not cowards, they were merely human and being human acted as such.
After all, if guts and bravery were that common, the military, and even police departments, wouldn't give out medals for it.
He doesn't have to be shooting everything in sight. He only has to be shooting you, or anyone else coming to the girls rescue.
Assesment, delay and deception.
That's what most of the people did or attempted. They assesed the problem and determined that being unarmed they couldn't do much directly. So they ran for help and called the police. They delayed a direct confrontation with the bg, while getting the help they thought the girl needed. I'm not sure where the deception comes in, but then you said it, not me.
I am not trying to single Ryder or his comments out. It is just that his post was one of the last, easiest to cut and paste, and one of the clearest.
DM
ALASKACAJUN
Member
A friend of mine (Mike) witnessed a similar incedent at a gas station here in Anchorage except it was a boyfriend and girlfriend having a fight. She wanted out of the SUV and he was hitting her and pushing her back in... My buddy is 6' 2" tall and weighs about 255 lbs. The perp was a smallish white male in his 20's approx 5' 11" and 170 lbs... My buddy approached him and told him he shouldn't treat a lady that way (he's from Texas) The idiot told him to mind his own business, then the kids buddies (3 black males) jumped out of the SUV and beat the crap out of Mike, putting him in the hospital, in a coma... The gas station attendant (female) ran outside and yelled for them to quit, at this point Mike was on the ground getting kicked in the head... She didn't notice a license plate # or make of vehicle... He said it was a Caddilac Escalade... but they stopped and left, I bet he'd be dead if she didn't run out and scare them off. This also goes to prove, that if you do intervene in an altercation, you should be prepared to take on more than one person, and bring an equalizer with you. Mike thought that since he was bigger than Homeboy, it was a done deal. I asked if he'll ever do that again and he said "I don't think so.."
- Clint
- Clint
1911 guy
Member
Fight, Flight or debate
First off, I'm going to applaude Double Maduro for making us think about what we would do. Seriously. In our daydreams, we're all Chuck Norris and Arnold Schwartzenegger rolled into one. But have we really thought about a real plan to deal with the nasty surprises that happen every day, just not to us? Having said that, I'm also quite sure that not every one who says they would intervene is pipe dreaming. Many on this board have been in harm's way, have traded ammo with the enemy and also realize that the principle is what makes right and wrong, not whether we're likely to win or lose.
So, my opinion is that if you are talking out of your hat about doing something, put some thought into it and have a response ready should you ever be put in that very bad situation. On the other hand, don't automatically discount someone who says with deep conviction that they will do something. They just might mean it.
First off, I'm going to applaude Double Maduro for making us think about what we would do. Seriously. In our daydreams, we're all Chuck Norris and Arnold Schwartzenegger rolled into one. But have we really thought about a real plan to deal with the nasty surprises that happen every day, just not to us? Having said that, I'm also quite sure that not every one who says they would intervene is pipe dreaming. Many on this board have been in harm's way, have traded ammo with the enemy and also realize that the principle is what makes right and wrong, not whether we're likely to win or lose.
So, my opinion is that if you are talking out of your hat about doing something, put some thought into it and have a response ready should you ever be put in that very bad situation. On the other hand, don't automatically discount someone who says with deep conviction that they will do something. They just might mean it.
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