Ian Fleming's suppressor

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BigFatKen

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In one book the bad guy stands behind James Bond and says [paraphrased] "My cane is filled with foam rubber pieces to quiet down the .45 Auto it fires. When the croud roars when the dice makes this point, will pull the trigger. No one will notice".

I may not remember it right but I describe the cane gun well enough.

Will this weapon be heard as described?
 
The cane will explode and the crowd will sustain injuries from fragments. Assuming there is a barrel it's obstructed. Commander Fleming wrote fiction.
 
It cracks me up when so many people mix fantasy with reality.

JAMES BOND IS NOT REAL.

But we all know, he carried a .25 so that means .25s are good for carrying. He also carried a Walther P99 so that means those are awesome too, right?? Get real! It's a book!!
 
Wow, tough crowd. I was hoping someone remembered the book. Here are more details. The cane has a steel barrel from a rifle and the foam rubber has holes in the middle to allow the passage of the bullet. The 45 ammo is sub-loaded and the bad guy tells Bond in detail the spinal injury he will get. Assume it doesn't blow up. Really, a cane built on a rifle barrel would then be a formidable club. Does it muffle the sound?

It's not like Lee Child in his last Reacher book where a box of 45s put in a fire leave "bullet holes everwhere".
 
It's not like Lee Child in his last Reacher book where a box of 45s put in a fire leave "bullet holes everwhere".
Yeah, I caught that one too. He has at least one gun-related guffaw in every book. Not his fault, he's English, but you'd think he could just ask somebody.
 
I would imagine a 1.2" or so diameter 3 foot pole with a gun barrel, and several rubber baffles shooting a subsonic round could probably be made quiet enough not to be noticed when people are screaming.
 
It could work if the foam rubber pieces are actually toroid in shape
Wow, tough crowd. I was hoping someone remembered the book. Here are more details. The cane has a steel barrel from a rifle and the foam rubber has holes in the middle to allow the passage of the bullet. The 45 ammo is sub-loaded and the bad guy tells Bond in detail the spinal injury he will get. Assume it doesn't blow up. Really, a cane built on a rifle barrel would then be a formidable club. Does it muffle the sound?

The way it is described there, I believe it could work.
 
Fleming was not above letting poetic license get in the way of a good yarn (aget all, consider that Carnival in Nassau is supposed to be loud enough to cover up a .38 sp [Dr. No]).
I had always pictured that cane (On He Majesty's Secret Service or From Russia With Love) to be an overgrown Liberty pistol-- a long smoothbore with "foam" wipes inside. Toughest part is having a walking tip that does not affect the muzzle "crown" at all.

In thinking about it now, the LOA, grip to muzzle is going to be 28-30"--the first 12-15" could be the "can" portion at say, 1.5" diameter, then the next 115" could taper down to, oh 0.55 or 0.60 diameter.

Refining that a tad, let's say a barrel rifled for 12-15 inches, then counterbored smooth after alol the gas relief ports are cross-drilled for the expansion chamber. This would drop into a a sleeve. The breech would lock into the end of the barrel.
 
I do not recall the reference. Is it from a Fleming book or Hollywood drivel?
I do recall Fleming (Boothroyd) providing a "brush-type" silencer.

Between 1962-1967 I read all of the paperback Bond books. Age 16-21. Only saw Dr. No in movie form in a movie theater. The bad guys motive was not to kill Bond but to get him into a room to talk. If BG wanted Bond dead, a cane that comes apart to reveal a ten inch thin knife would have been an easy kill with a quick thrust through the heart, yelling "this man has had a heart attack" and leaving. But then no sequels.

In a half century I may have things mixed-up but that's what I remember.
 
My original M11/9 can had neoprene wipes with holes in them. very quiet. for a while.

I was thinking the same thing, if it's something like the wipes it would work, its what they used back in the day. And having some foam in the barrel is probably not going to stop a .45ACP in the barrel and make the whole thing explode so its certainly possible the bad guy is describing a setup that would work. .45ACP is almost all subsonic anyways too.
 
In a different world, it would be nice to be able to tinker and build something like this on your own without an onerous job of staying on the good side of the law. Maybe soon, we will have the opportunity to garage build a suppressor without a long wait and a tax in excess of what most of us would want to invest in a simple project like described above, even if it is a two stamp gun.


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Some quick numbers, and take any calculations I perform with a grain of salt.

The volume of a fairly standard pistol suppressor (1.5"x8") is about 14 cubic inches. V=Pi * (r*r)
.45 ACP hits full speed nicely in a 5" barrel, so if we assume that the cane is only 3/4" in diameter, but 35 inches in total length, the volume in the tube (which for 45 acp could well be aluminum) (3/4"x30) is 13.25 cubic inches.

We know that wipes do work, if only for a limited number of shots. So I think that it is definitely in the realm of possibility. Now, figuring out an elegant way to make the gun part work in something that looks like a cane would be beyond me. But, the silencer part is doable.
 
Did the quote say "foam" rubber? I'm thinking rubber wipes. Flemming was into super-secret stuff during the war (a lot of which is still secret). A lot of the details about operation Goldeneye have not come out yet and may never. Only one of as many as three Operation Tracer bunkers on Gibraltar have been found and that was not until 1997 (after a 2-year exhaustive search--and a little luck). The British may have also used a similar plan (sealed multi-year stay behind observation bunker) during the Suez Crisis.

British commandos had some very quiet weapons like the 85.5dB De Lisle Cargin (.45 ACP) and the 73bB Welrod pistol (9mm), the latter of which had largely plastic and rubber baffles and wipes.

Mike
 
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Wow, tough crowd. I was hoping someone remembered the book. Here are more details. The cane has a steel barrel from a rifle and the foam rubber has holes in the middle to allow the passage of the bullet. The 45 ammo is sub-loaded and the bad guy tells Bond in detail the spinal injury he will get. Assume it doesn't blow up. Really, a cane built on a rifle barrel would then be a formidable club. Does it muffle the sound?

It's not like Lee Child in his last Reacher book where a box of 45s put in a fire leave "bullet holes everwhere".
It's a lot of literary licence
 
I think it could be made to work. The barrel would be suitable steel, not ordinary cane metal.

In a different sort of cane gun, did you see, The Day of the Jackal, where the gunsmith made up a gun that would pass for a crutch? Very impressive!

BTW, I exchanged letters with the real Geoffrey Boothroyd and read his articles. About 90% of the posts on the Net about him, Fleming, and the Bond guns is heavily flawed. For one thing, Boothroyd never advised a PPK for Bond. That was Fleming's idea, as he liked small autos. B. actually suggested the S&W Centennial Airweight, with the Colt .45 under the dash of Bond's Bentley being replaced by a S&W M-27 .357, in part to have partially interchangeable ammo.

In his epochal work, The Handgun, Crown Publishers, about 1970, Boothroyd said the the S&W Model 60, the stainless Chief's Special, was rhe ideal Bond gun. But Fleming had died before it came out, so it was a moot point.

None of the authors authorized to write Bond novels after Fleming's death ever captured the character right and it was usually tedious to read their books. The last I read also had a dose of the Political Correctness of the movies, which usually have little in common with Fleming's books except the title and the very basic plot. The books were better.

Fleming carried a Baby Browning .25 while an agent. He had faith in it, given its obvious limits. An OSS agent who wrote about her experiences during WWII carried a .25 Beretta and killed a knife-wielding gypsy with it. See, The Spy Wore Red and other books by Aline, Countess of Ramonones. (She was American, but married into the Spanish nobility.)
 
Because, IIRC, if falls under what is considered a 'disguised firearm', same reason you can't have pen guns, wallet guns, knife guns, etc. without a stamp.



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Correct. The NFA Handbook even specifically mentions cane guns:

2.1.5 Any other weapon. Firearms meeting the definition of “any other weapon” are weapons or devices capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive. Many “any other weapons” are disguised devices such as penguns, cigarette lighter guns, knife guns, cane guns and umbrella guns.​
 
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