Identify this old cartridge

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Toprudder, Apr 9, 2019.

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  1. Toprudder
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    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    A friend wanted help identifying this cartridge, and I have no clue.

    5682ADB6-AA67-4024-9F6C-36FE232EE175.jpeg
     
  2. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Centerfire?
     
  3. Toprudder
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    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    Yes. I think I found a matching photo, Snider 577.
    snider577.jpg
     
  4. Toprudder
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    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    At first I did not find anything with google, until I saw a reference to "rolled brass" and then the search came up with that.
     
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  5. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I read that British army orphans were employed in making cartridges with rolled brass cases and paper patched bullets.
     
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  6. Toprudder
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    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    Reading the history, the first were made with rolled paper and brass heads, latest ones were drawn brass. I guess the rolled brass was somewhere in between.
     
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  7. Toprudder
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    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    Would this be worth anything to a collector?
     
  8. forty_caliber

    forty_caliber Member

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    Fascinating. I've never even heard of rolled brass cartridges before. I guess it could work but I think it would lose some efficiency from escaping gas around the sides of the chamber.

    .40
     
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  9. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I've never seen anything like that. Wow!
     
  10. Waldog

    Waldog Member

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    That could be a cartridge for a British 577/450 Martini–Henry. However, the 577/450 Martini–Henry cartridge is more bottle neck shaped. Rolled brass cases were quite common before they figured out how to "draw" brass.
     
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  11. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Just curious; why would you measure it in mm?
     
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  12. Random 8

    Random 8 Member

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    These were originally used in "Enfield" pattern rifled muskets converted to centerfire. As stores of these were used up, purpose built rifles were manufactured in this caliber prior to the advent of the .450 cartridge. They continued to see service in the British commonwealth in reserve, training, native troops through WWI. This round/rifle was also relatively common in Canada, still being used on moose and bear and also with shot rounds in remote locations until relatively modern times. After WWII, various Enfield pattern rifles became cheap and plentiful and thoroughly displaced the .577. You still see a fair number of them hanging above the fireplace in Canadian hunting lodges, cabins and constabularies.
     
  13. Random 8

    Random 8 Member

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    On a fishing trip near Ear Falls ONT, our native guide thought it would be hilarious to see a 13 year old boy shoot "Grandfathers Big Medicine Gun" when the resort owners son and I were bumming around his cabin after hours. They were both mildly disappointed when it didn't knock me on my butt. Pretty sure it was a .577, as I don't remember the case having a bottleneck, and it looked like a converted .577 Enfield RM. I found the experience very similar to shooting a .577 Enfield rifled musket with a minie' ball that an old codger (also no doubt amused by the prospect of a 13 yr old boy firing such a beast) let me fire a few weeks prior.
     
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  14. Toprudder
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    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    Don't know, I did not measure it. My friend that asked me to identify it actually measured it and sent me the photo, and I have no idea why he had his calipers set to metric.

    I texted the photo to another friend of mine that is into old guns, and he originally said the same thing. My research has shown that the 577/450 was actually derived from the 577 Snider. No bottleneck in this one, though, and the diameter at the case mouth is too large for 450, so I am pretty sure this is 577 Snider.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
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