rainbowbob
Member
Will do.
Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers
- Thread starter Brian Williams
- Start date
Will do.
CajunBass
Member
Just a plain, ordinary Model 10-7, 4" pencil barrel, square grip, 38 special. SN 4D938XX.
Radagast
Member
CajunBass:
Your Model 10-7 .38 Military & Police tapered barrel was manufactured in 1979.
Your Model 10-7 .38 Military & Police tapered barrel was manufactured in 1979.
Happycamper
Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2010
- Messages
- 9
Looking to determine DOB for Smith Wesson 22 revolver. 6 inch possible k-22 Normal Flat Butt 6 hot, adjustable sights. K67780
It has no model number stamped anywhere. Just numbers starting with K
It has no model number stamped anywhere. Just numbers starting with K
forindooruseonly
Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2009
- Messages
- 1,076
Friend here helped me out, so don't need the info. Thanks
Last edited:
Radagast
Member
happycamper:
1948. Already answered in detail in your original thread.
1948. Already answered in detail in your original thread.
gaetor
Member
S&W help
Any information is appreciated:
a. .38
b. 2'' barrel
c. custom grips have been placed
d. 6 shot
f. SN# 4741XX- came from the butt of the grip
Thanks
John
Any information is appreciated:
a. .38
b. 2'' barrel
c. custom grips have been placed
d. 6 shot
f. SN# 4741XX- came from the butt of the grip
Thanks
John
Radagast
Member
gaetor:
You have a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change, manufactured between 1920 & 1927. The 4th Change part of the description refered to the 4th design change, specifically the inclusion of the first generation internal hammer block safety. Unfortunately the early hammer block does not always work and if the gun is dropped there is the potential for it to fire. Because of this I recommend that if you keep the gun loaded you leave the chamber under the hammer empty.
Your gun was manufactured after heat treatment of cylinders began, so it should be safe to fire with any standard pressure/velocity or PlusP rated ammunition. Do not fire any ammunition marked +P+ as there is no industry pressure standard for +P+ and they may be unsafe to fire in older guns.
If the 2 inch barrel is a factory item and not a longer barrel that has been cut back by a gunsmith then it is relatively rare and makes the gun more interesting to a collector. If there is no locking lug under the barrel where the ejector rod ends then the barrel has been cut back. This a) greatly reduces the value of the gun toaround $150, and b) makes it unsafe to shoot with anything other than standard velocity lead rounds. I've personally sprung the cylinder crane on a S&W without a barrel lug to hold the crane closed with less than a box of 110 grain +P JHPs.
In 1957 the .38 Military & Police was designated the Model 10 and continues in production today. Most parts are not interchangeable as there have been many design changes since the 1920s. If you ever need spares your best bet is to try Numrich Arms, who are the wrecking yard of the gun industry.
You have a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change, manufactured between 1920 & 1927. The 4th Change part of the description refered to the 4th design change, specifically the inclusion of the first generation internal hammer block safety. Unfortunately the early hammer block does not always work and if the gun is dropped there is the potential for it to fire. Because of this I recommend that if you keep the gun loaded you leave the chamber under the hammer empty.
Your gun was manufactured after heat treatment of cylinders began, so it should be safe to fire with any standard pressure/velocity or PlusP rated ammunition. Do not fire any ammunition marked +P+ as there is no industry pressure standard for +P+ and they may be unsafe to fire in older guns.
If the 2 inch barrel is a factory item and not a longer barrel that has been cut back by a gunsmith then it is relatively rare and makes the gun more interesting to a collector. If there is no locking lug under the barrel where the ejector rod ends then the barrel has been cut back. This a) greatly reduces the value of the gun toaround $150, and b) makes it unsafe to shoot with anything other than standard velocity lead rounds. I've personally sprung the cylinder crane on a S&W without a barrel lug to hold the crane closed with less than a box of 110 grain +P JHPs.
In 1957 the .38 Military & Police was designated the Model 10 and continues in production today. Most parts are not interchangeable as there have been many design changes since the 1920s. If you ever need spares your best bet is to try Numrich Arms, who are the wrecking yard of the gun industry.
CHEVELLE427
Member
This was my dads service gun when he was a LEO back in the 60's
any help on a date and anything else will be grateful for, i changed the grips out when i got it from him. it had the fake stag ones
A=38
B=2
C=THINK SQ
D=6
E=BLADE FRONT
F=C715153
G=MOD 10-5
any help on a date and anything else will be grateful for, i changed the grips out when i got it from him. it had the fake stag ones
A=38
B=2
C=THINK SQ
D=6
E=BLADE FRONT
F=C715153
G=MOD 10-5
Radagast
Member
CHEVELLE427:
Your Model 10-5 .38 Military & Police tapered barrel was manufactured in the period 1963 to 1965. Serial range for those years was C622700 to C810532.
wrs840:
Your Model 29-3 .44 Magnum dates to early 1985.
Your Model 10-5 .38 Military & Police tapered barrel was manufactured in the period 1963 to 1965. Serial range for those years was C622700 to C810532.
wrs840:
Your Model 29-3 .44 Magnum dates to early 1985.
Radagast
Member
msnden:
The Model 686 Distinguished Combat Magnum was introduced in 1980 and continues in production today.
The 686 is built on the medium sized L frame which was developed to address problems with cracking forcing cones in the earlier and slightly smaller K frame based Model 66 Combat Magnum. The 686 has a larger cylinder window, allowing a full sized forcing cone.
Unfortunately for S&W, the 686 came on the market just as law enforcement began switching from revolvers to semi-automatic pistols and the 686 became the darling of target shooters and hunters instead of the the police standard S&W hoped for.
Over the years the 686 has been produced in many variants, including 2, 3, 4, 6, & 8&3/8 inch barrels, full lugged, partial lugged, slab sided and compensated barrels, black, fibreoptic, red ramped and adjustable front sights, fluted and unfluted cylinders, six and seven shot cylinders and a variety of grip options.
In the case of your gun, the -3 refers to a design change made in 1988 with a new cylinder yoke retention system. Your gun dates to late 1991 or early 1992.
The Model 686 Distinguished Combat Magnum was introduced in 1980 and continues in production today.
The 686 is built on the medium sized L frame which was developed to address problems with cracking forcing cones in the earlier and slightly smaller K frame based Model 66 Combat Magnum. The 686 has a larger cylinder window, allowing a full sized forcing cone.
Unfortunately for S&W, the 686 came on the market just as law enforcement began switching from revolvers to semi-automatic pistols and the 686 became the darling of target shooters and hunters instead of the the police standard S&W hoped for.
Over the years the 686 has been produced in many variants, including 2, 3, 4, 6, & 8&3/8 inch barrels, full lugged, partial lugged, slab sided and compensated barrels, black, fibreoptic, red ramped and adjustable front sights, fluted and unfluted cylinders, six and seven shot cylinders and a variety of grip options.
In the case of your gun, the -3 refers to a design change made in 1988 with a new cylinder yoke retention system. Your gun dates to late 1991 or early 1992.
Radagast
Member
Oyeboten:
That looks to be the genuine article, a 2 inch barreled .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change manufactured in the late 1930s. Serial numbers in the 651000 range shipped in 1935, in the 680,000 range in 1940. I'm inclined to be romantic and say it was probably purchased in 1939 when the winds of war were blowing and someone decided it was needful to have an insurance policy on hand.
It's the first 2 inch gun from that era I've seen, other than cut down .38 S&W British Service Revolvers. The Standard Catalog of S&W notes 50 to 100 percent premium for the 2 inch round butt if original, 2 inch square butt, double to triple value.
As the Author's have previously stated that the reference in SCSW to the square butt frame with standard length barrel being worth double is a typo and it is the round butt that is worth double, I am inclined to think that there are two typoes in that entry and your gun is worth double to triple.
In excellent plus condition the SCSW gave a value of $450 in 2006 for a 4th change, so potentially yours is worth $1200 or more.
As for the markings on the hammer, I've never seen them before. I'll speculate that the hammer is one made in the 1920s or early 30s for a short barrelled gun as the 1915 patents (ncluding the first generation internal hammer block) were still iin force and S&W would have wanted to claim protection. Some of the longer barreled guns still shipped with patent dates on the barrel during that period. Lacking real estate on the barrel, S&W may have moved the markings to the hammer.
As I am speculating without real facts, I suggest you start a new thread in the firearms research section and see what Old Fuff, Jim Keenan, Oro or Saxon Pig have to say.
That looks to be the genuine article, a 2 inch barreled .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change manufactured in the late 1930s. Serial numbers in the 651000 range shipped in 1935, in the 680,000 range in 1940. I'm inclined to be romantic and say it was probably purchased in 1939 when the winds of war were blowing and someone decided it was needful to have an insurance policy on hand.
It's the first 2 inch gun from that era I've seen, other than cut down .38 S&W British Service Revolvers. The Standard Catalog of S&W notes 50 to 100 percent premium for the 2 inch round butt if original, 2 inch square butt, double to triple value.
As the Author's have previously stated that the reference in SCSW to the square butt frame with standard length barrel being worth double is a typo and it is the round butt that is worth double, I am inclined to think that there are two typoes in that entry and your gun is worth double to triple.
In excellent plus condition the SCSW gave a value of $450 in 2006 for a 4th change, so potentially yours is worth $1200 or more.
As for the markings on the hammer, I've never seen them before. I'll speculate that the hammer is one made in the 1920s or early 30s for a short barrelled gun as the 1915 patents (ncluding the first generation internal hammer block) were still iin force and S&W would have wanted to claim protection. Some of the longer barreled guns still shipped with patent dates on the barrel during that period. Lacking real estate on the barrel, S&W may have moved the markings to the hammer.
As I am speculating without real facts, I suggest you start a new thread in the firearms research section and see what Old Fuff, Jim Keenan, Oro or Saxon Pig have to say.
Thank you Radagast..!
I will take it over to the Research area and see what anyone there may have to say.
I have wanted one of these for a long time, but they are hard to find.
I love the M&P Snubbys, and yearned for a pre-war one.
I had seen the "Reg.Pat.Office" reference Stamped into the rear of the Hammer area on a few S&W Hand Ejectors of the 1930s era, but had no idea what it refered to, though these were longer Barreled Models.
I have a K Frame ( I believe it is ) .22 Target from the early 1930s which has that detail, but it is buried in Storage somewhere so I can not accesss it right now.
The only other pre-war M&P Snubby I have seen was on Gunbroker a year or so ago, and it was not in as good of condition as this one, and went rather high I thought, and I always regretted missing out on it, but I did not have the dough to go after it.
Well, I am satisfied now.
This was at a local Pawn Shop and was said to be a Model 10, and I saw no point in argueing with them about it...so once in my Hand, I did not set it down.
Serial Numbers match on Butt, Barrel and Cylinder, though no numerals appear on the inside of the Hard Rubber Stocks.
Does not appear to have been fired or Carried much, Crane feels snug when opening, and there is no hint of wear to the Blueing around the Recoil Shield.
It sure has a nice feel to it.
Glad I trusted my out-of-the-blue intuition to just drop what I was doing and go to that Pawn Shop today.
Can't wait to get out to the Range and try it out.
I will take it over to the Research area and see what anyone there may have to say.
I have wanted one of these for a long time, but they are hard to find.
I love the M&P Snubbys, and yearned for a pre-war one.
I had seen the "Reg.Pat.Office" reference Stamped into the rear of the Hammer area on a few S&W Hand Ejectors of the 1930s era, but had no idea what it refered to, though these were longer Barreled Models.
I have a K Frame ( I believe it is ) .22 Target from the early 1930s which has that detail, but it is buried in Storage somewhere so I can not accesss it right now.
The only other pre-war M&P Snubby I have seen was on Gunbroker a year or so ago, and it was not in as good of condition as this one, and went rather high I thought, and I always regretted missing out on it, but I did not have the dough to go after it.
Well, I am satisfied now.
This was at a local Pawn Shop and was said to be a Model 10, and I saw no point in argueing with them about it...so once in my Hand, I did not set it down.
Serial Numbers match on Butt, Barrel and Cylinder, though no numerals appear on the inside of the Hard Rubber Stocks.
Does not appear to have been fired or Carried much, Crane feels snug when opening, and there is no hint of wear to the Blueing around the Recoil Shield.
It sure has a nice feel to it.
Glad I trusted my out-of-the-blue intuition to just drop what I was doing and go to that Pawn Shop today.
Can't wait to get out to the Range and try it out.
Radagast
Member
That is a nice find. Especially if you paid Model 10 rates for it.
There was a .22/32 Hand Ejector based on the I frame with target stocks and adjustable sights. This was produced between 1911 & 1941 and is probaby the more common prewar target 22.
There were also two K frame guns, the K22 Outdoorsman manufactured from 1931 to 1940 and the K22 Masterpiece manufactured in 1940. The K22 masterpiece is worth mega bucks, SCSW listed $5000 for as new in box in 2006. The Outdoorsman is still worth storing properly, it listed as $ 1000 in excellent condition.
If you ever dig it out feel free to post some pics, I've yet to see a prewar K22, apart from the small pic in the SCSW.
There was a .22/32 Hand Ejector based on the I frame with target stocks and adjustable sights. This was produced between 1911 & 1941 and is probaby the more common prewar target 22.
There were also two K frame guns, the K22 Outdoorsman manufactured from 1931 to 1940 and the K22 Masterpiece manufactured in 1940. The K22 masterpiece is worth mega bucks, SCSW listed $5000 for as new in box in 2006. The Outdoorsman is still worth storing properly, it listed as $ 1000 in excellent condition.
If you ever dig it out feel free to post some pics, I've yet to see a prewar K22, apart from the small pic in the SCSW.
Hi Radagast,
Wish me luck! I will try and find it!
I am confident it is a K-Frame based Model, and I will guess it to end up being the 'Outdoorsman', as it has the 'round Top' Stocks ( if memory serve ).
It is in an unfinished Fitted Case I started making for it...so, if I can find the Case, I will have found the Revolver which is in it.
Wish me luck! I will try and find it!
I am confident it is a K-Frame based Model, and I will guess it to end up being the 'Outdoorsman', as it has the 'round Top' Stocks ( if memory serve ).
It is in an unfinished Fitted Case I started making for it...so, if I can find the Case, I will have found the Revolver which is in it.
Radagast
Member
Now that is neat!
K22 Outdoorsman (K22 1st Model). 19500 manufactured in the .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change serial range 632124 to 682419 between 1931 & 1940.
K22s in the 650000 serial range shipped in 1935, so 1931 to 1935 is definite, at least for the manufacture of the frame.
.38 M&Ps shipped in the 647000 serial range in 1934, so 1934 seems possible, but Old Fuff has pointed out that during the depression S&W were manufacturing and stockpiling numbered frames rather than laying off workers, so it may have shipped earlier or later.
The grips are correct for the gun, as are the medallions.
The rear sight is a later production version. The earlier version only had one retaining screw.
Does the front sight has a gold bead? Hard to tell from the pics whether there is a low mounted bead or not. If not then it is correct as well, as te Patridge front sight was standard. The 1940 K2 Masterpiece has the options of Patridge, Call gold bead or plain bead front sights.
Edit:
Looks like my speculation on the hammer stamping was wrong. There's plenty of real estate on that barrel for markings.
K22 Outdoorsman (K22 1st Model). 19500 manufactured in the .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change serial range 632124 to 682419 between 1931 & 1940.
K22s in the 650000 serial range shipped in 1935, so 1931 to 1935 is definite, at least for the manufacture of the frame.
.38 M&Ps shipped in the 647000 serial range in 1934, so 1934 seems possible, but Old Fuff has pointed out that during the depression S&W were manufacturing and stockpiling numbered frames rather than laying off workers, so it may have shipped earlier or later.
The grips are correct for the gun, as are the medallions.
The rear sight is a later production version. The earlier version only had one retaining screw.
Does the front sight has a gold bead? Hard to tell from the pics whether there is a low mounted bead or not. If not then it is correct as well, as te Patridge front sight was standard. The 1940 K2 Masterpiece has the options of Patridge, Call gold bead or plain bead front sights.
Edit:
Looks like my speculation on the hammer stamping was wrong. There's plenty of real estate on that barrel for markings.
Thank you Radagast!
What fun!
I had not seen this Revolver in many years...thank you for inspiring me to go dig it up.
In the 'Firearms Research' Thread, Old Fuff suggested that the "Reg.U.S.Pat.Off" Hammer Stamping of my M&P 'Snubby', refers to a failed effort of S&W to somehow patent their manner of making the Case Hardening Colors.
The Front Sight of this K-22 'M&P' does have an inset 'Bead' of some sort, but it looks to be a dull Silver sort of Color to me, and is not standing much for proud, but is nearly flush.
In the early 1990s, I had got my fiance at-the-time, one of the old 'Beakheart' S&W I-Frame .22s, and it was delightful in every way, but, though right for her little Hands, was too small feeling to my Hands.
So I set about looking for a larger Frame .22 in an older design for myself, and that was how I got this one.
Shortly after that, almost everything of mine went into Storage, and has been there since, so someday I will have to root through it all and decide what to do with all of it.
Only a few old Guns though, and I really ought to go root out the not seen in ages of others to remember and enjoy them again.
What fun!
I had not seen this Revolver in many years...thank you for inspiring me to go dig it up.
In the 'Firearms Research' Thread, Old Fuff suggested that the "Reg.U.S.Pat.Off" Hammer Stamping of my M&P 'Snubby', refers to a failed effort of S&W to somehow patent their manner of making the Case Hardening Colors.
The Front Sight of this K-22 'M&P' does have an inset 'Bead' of some sort, but it looks to be a dull Silver sort of Color to me, and is not standing much for proud, but is nearly flush.
In the early 1990s, I had got my fiance at-the-time, one of the old 'Beakheart' S&W I-Frame .22s, and it was delightful in every way, but, though right for her little Hands, was too small feeling to my Hands.
So I set about looking for a larger Frame .22 in an older design for myself, and that was how I got this one.
Shortly after that, almost everything of mine went into Storage, and has been there since, so someday I will have to root through it all and decide what to do with all of it.
Only a few old Guns though, and I really ought to go root out the not seen in ages of others to remember and enjoy them again.
Radagast
Member
Oyetboten:
Another rare one. You have a Third Model Perfected Target Pistol, manufactured between 1909 & 1923 in the serial number range 4618 to 11641. According to the Standard Catalog of S&W it was based on the .38 Single Action top break frame with some parts from the .32 Hand Ejector. It should be able to fire in double action.
SCSW gave a value of $1600 in excellent plus condition back in 2006.
Thanks for posting the pics, it's nice to see something different.
Another rare one. You have a Third Model Perfected Target Pistol, manufactured between 1909 & 1923 in the serial number range 4618 to 11641. According to the Standard Catalog of S&W it was based on the .38 Single Action top break frame with some parts from the .32 Hand Ejector. It should be able to fire in double action.
SCSW gave a value of $1600 in excellent plus condition back in 2006.
Thanks for posting the pics, it's nice to see something different.
