Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers
- Thread starter Brian Williams
- Start date
magnumman44
Member
a) caliber-38 S&W Spcl
b) 2"
c) round
d) 5 shots
e) fixed
f) 99315
g) 36
Older looking revolver. I don't have my camera with me today to photograph it.
b) 2"
c) round
d) 5 shots
e) fixed
f) 99315
g) 36
Older looking revolver. I don't have my camera with me today to photograph it.
Radagast
Member
magnumman44:
You have a Model 36 Chiefs Special from 1957. This was the first J frame firearm, introduced in 1950, in blued or nickel steel. If the grips are original then they will have an uncheckered diamond around the grip screws. The cylinder release latch should be flat, a signature of the early J frame guns.
mejefe2u:
You have a Model 13-3 .357 Magnum Military & Police Heavy Barrel manufactured between January 1986 & July 1987.
You have a Model 36 Chiefs Special from 1957. This was the first J frame firearm, introduced in 1950, in blued or nickel steel. If the grips are original then they will have an uncheckered diamond around the grip screws. The cylinder release latch should be flat, a signature of the early J frame guns.
mejefe2u:
You have a Model 13-3 .357 Magnum Military & Police Heavy Barrel manufactured between January 1986 & July 1987.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
Caliber
A) 38...I think
BBL length
B) don't know, around 3-4"
Grips shape
C) round
Number of shots
D) 5
Sights
E) tiny fixed
Serial number
F) 76653
Model
G) top break, small frame
A) 38...I think
BBL length
B) don't know, around 3-4"
Grips shape
C) round
Number of shots
D) 5
Sights
E) tiny fixed
Serial number
F) 76653
Model
G) top break, small frame
Radagast
Member
DeepSouth:
You have a .38 Single Action 2nd Model manufactured between 1877 & 1891 in the serial range 1 to 108255.
Barrel length should be 3.25 inches, measured from the muzzle to the forcing cone at the front of the cylinder.
Caliber is .38 S&W, which is still commercially available in smokeless loads. Your gun was manufactured for blackpowder loads, so even if your gun is functional (it appears not to be, with a missing side plate screw) I would recommend against shooting it.
Value is quite low, in 2006 the Standard Cataog of S&W gave a value of $95 in poor condition.
reprosser:
A typo in my answer to you. Where I said Model 67-1 I meant Model 36-1. Sorry about the confusion.
You have a .38 Single Action 2nd Model manufactured between 1877 & 1891 in the serial range 1 to 108255.
Barrel length should be 3.25 inches, measured from the muzzle to the forcing cone at the front of the cylinder.
Caliber is .38 S&W, which is still commercially available in smokeless loads. Your gun was manufactured for blackpowder loads, so even if your gun is functional (it appears not to be, with a missing side plate screw) I would recommend against shooting it.
Value is quite low, in 2006 the Standard Cataog of S&W gave a value of $95 in poor condition.
reprosser:
A typo in my answer to you. Where I said Model 67-1 I meant Model 36-1. Sorry about the confusion.
jamesmhebert
Member
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2010
- Messages
- 16
A new-to-me S&W Model 627 Pro Series
The first owner shot less than a box of 38 sp through this. I'd love to know more about it, especially as it's my first firearm.
Caliber
.357
Barrel
4"
Grip/Butt
Rounded butt (Hogue monogrip)
Round/Loads
8 shot
Sights
Adjustable
Serial
CNW2335
Model # under Yoke
627-5 (this threw me... apparently, this refers to the frame, not the barrel, but every time I see it, it makes me stop. I've seen a few posts online stating it's correct, it's just something I don't fully get.)
Thank you!
James
Follow-up after Radagast's reply (not wanting to add another post): Thank you! I'll contact Stainz for his input as you suggested. P.S. I apologize for not catching on that my serial was of a later manufacture and did not mean to barge in on the thread! All the same, you have kindly given me more than I anticipated. Thank you for that. It's fun reading about the lineage of my firearm. I do treasure this revolver and am very, very happy with it.
The first owner shot less than a box of 38 sp through this. I'd love to know more about it, especially as it's my first firearm.
Caliber
.357
Barrel
4"
Grip/Butt
Rounded butt (Hogue monogrip)
Round/Loads
8 shot
Sights
Adjustable
Serial
CNW2335
Model # under Yoke
627-5 (this threw me... apparently, this refers to the frame, not the barrel, but every time I see it, it makes me stop. I've seen a few posts online stating it's correct, it's just something I don't fully get.)
Thank you!
James
Follow-up after Radagast's reply (not wanting to add another post): Thank you! I'll contact Stainz for his input as you suggested. P.S. I apologize for not catching on that my serial was of a later manufacture and did not mean to barge in on the thread! All the same, you have kindly given me more than I anticipated. Thank you for that. It's fun reading about the lineage of my firearm. I do treasure this revolver and am very, very happy with it.
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Radagast
Member
jamesmhebert:
Dash numbers usually refer to engineering changes. They can also refer to different calibers, barrel lengths or barrel contours.
So the 627-1 had a new rear sight leaf and the top strap was drilled and taped for a scope mount.
The 627-2 was a new frame design with the frame mounted firing pin and an 8 shot cylinder.
The 627-3 had a new frame design and metal injection molded hammer and trigger.
The 627-4 introduced the internal lock and .38 Super caliber.
the 627-5 introduced the internal lock in .357 magnum caliber.
Interestingly, the first offering of the 627-5 did come with a five inch barrel from the S&W Performance Center, at a premium price.
Now as to your gun, the serial number ranges in the Standard Catalog of S&W, which is the reference used for this thread, cut off in 2004. The 627 Pro series was announced by S&W at the 2008 SHOT show, so all I can tell you is your gun was made in the last two years.
If you are interested in the Pro series, try a search on member Stainz. He is very pleased with his, posts a pic of it regularly, and his posts will probably help you.
FWIW, the 6 in 627 refers to a stainless steel model 27. The Model 27 was for many years S&Ws flagship gun, given the best finish. It in turn was an evolution of the .357 Registered Magnum, introduced in the 1930s, the original gun for the .357 magnum. Built on S&Ws large .44 sized N frame, with a six shot cylinder, there was plenty of metal in the cylinder to withstand pressures nearly double those of the earlier blackpowder based .44 special the N frame was originally chambered in. One problem with the earlier six shot .357/.38 guns built on the N frame was that rapid double action fire could causing peening of the cylinder notches, the cylinder had too much mass. By going to an 8 shot cylinder the mass was reduced, reducing the risk of peening. Also having 8 shots made the gun more sellable in a market that thinks more is better.
Modern 627s aren't hand fitted and manufactured to order, but you don't pay the premium that the old guns pulled, not do you have to wait a couple of months for it to be made.
TL,DR: You have a fine firearm, go and shoot it.
Dash numbers usually refer to engineering changes. They can also refer to different calibers, barrel lengths or barrel contours.
So the 627-1 had a new rear sight leaf and the top strap was drilled and taped for a scope mount.
The 627-2 was a new frame design with the frame mounted firing pin and an 8 shot cylinder.
The 627-3 had a new frame design and metal injection molded hammer and trigger.
The 627-4 introduced the internal lock and .38 Super caliber.
the 627-5 introduced the internal lock in .357 magnum caliber.
Interestingly, the first offering of the 627-5 did come with a five inch barrel from the S&W Performance Center, at a premium price.
Now as to your gun, the serial number ranges in the Standard Catalog of S&W, which is the reference used for this thread, cut off in 2004. The 627 Pro series was announced by S&W at the 2008 SHOT show, so all I can tell you is your gun was made in the last two years.
If you are interested in the Pro series, try a search on member Stainz. He is very pleased with his, posts a pic of it regularly, and his posts will probably help you.
FWIW, the 6 in 627 refers to a stainless steel model 27. The Model 27 was for many years S&Ws flagship gun, given the best finish. It in turn was an evolution of the .357 Registered Magnum, introduced in the 1930s, the original gun for the .357 magnum. Built on S&Ws large .44 sized N frame, with a six shot cylinder, there was plenty of metal in the cylinder to withstand pressures nearly double those of the earlier blackpowder based .44 special the N frame was originally chambered in. One problem with the earlier six shot .357/.38 guns built on the N frame was that rapid double action fire could causing peening of the cylinder notches, the cylinder had too much mass. By going to an 8 shot cylinder the mass was reduced, reducing the risk of peening. Also having 8 shots made the gun more sellable in a market that thinks more is better.
Modern 627s aren't hand fitted and manufactured to order, but you don't pay the premium that the old guns pulled, not do you have to wait a couple of months for it to be made.
TL,DR: You have a fine firearm, go and shoot it.
slicksleeve
Member
Model:19-4 P&R
Barrel length:2.5"
Finish:Appears to be factory nickle, case hardend hammer and trigger
Round butt, adjustable sights
Serial number from bottom of grip frame:
What would be approximate date of manufacture? Thanks in advance.
Barrel length:2.5"
Finish:Appears to be factory nickle, case hardend hammer and trigger
Round butt, adjustable sights
Serial number from bottom of grip frame:
What would be approximate date of manufacture? Thanks in advance.
Last edited:
Radagast
Member
slicksleeve:
1981.
1981.
Radagast
Member
jamesmhebert:
You didn't 'barge in', and I was happy to be able to narrow it down to the last 2 years.
Uninformed does not mean stupid and is not something to apologise for. Enjoy your new banger.
You didn't 'barge in', and I was happy to be able to narrow it down to the last 2 years.
Uninformed does not mean stupid and is not something to apologise for. Enjoy your new banger.
dbrasington
Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2010
- Messages
- 4
I have a 32
2" bbl
walnut checkered grips
6 shot
fixed site, only front site
550XXX
2" bbl
walnut checkered grips
6 shot
fixed site, only front site
550XXX
Last edited:
reprosser
Member
Thanks for the clarification. I checked the grips, but no serial number.
Last edited:
Radagast
Member
dbrasington:
Assuming the caliber is .32 S&W Long, then you have a post war .32 Hand Elector manufactured between 1949 & 1956. In 1957 the .32 Hand Ejector was designated the Model 30.
If the gun has a screw in the front strap of the grip then it is from 1953 or earlier & built on the I frame (slightly smaller than the current J frame). This version used a leaf main spring, the screw is to tension it.
If the gun has no screw then it is from 1953 or later and is built on the improved I frame, with a coil main spring.
From 1961 these guns were built on the larger J frame, so parts from later guns will not interchange with yours.
Assuming the caliber is .32 S&W Long, then you have a post war .32 Hand Elector manufactured between 1949 & 1956. In 1957 the .32 Hand Ejector was designated the Model 30.
If the gun has a screw in the front strap of the grip then it is from 1953 or earlier & built on the I frame (slightly smaller than the current J frame). This version used a leaf main spring, the screw is to tension it.
If the gun has no screw then it is from 1953 or later and is built on the improved I frame, with a coil main spring.
From 1961 these guns were built on the larger J frame, so parts from later guns will not interchange with yours.
Radagast
Member
waidmann:
You probably have a commercial contract .38/200 British Service Revolver manufactured for the British Military Purchasing Commission in 1940 or 1941.
Especially after the evacuation from Dunkirk & the loss of the British expeditionary forces equipment, Britain was in dire need of weapons. The British Government contracted directly with S&W to provide handguns in their .38/200 caliber, which was a 200 grain bullet in a .38 S&W case, hence the .38 S&W stamping. The standard barrel length was 5 inches, but they took what they could get, including 4 inch guns.
Until March 3 1942 these guns were finished with S&Ws normal bluing, after that they were in a variety of military finishes. According to the Standard Catalog of S&W the British guns started at around seral number 680,000, so yours is likely one of the first chambered in that caliber.
Normally these guns are covered in British proof marks, if yours isn't then it may never have made it to England.
Anyway, 1940 to early 1942, with 1940 being likely.
Caveat: A lot of British Service Revolvers were reimported into the USA after the war, the barrel shortened and the cylinder bored out for .38 Special. If a .38 special will chamber then you have a converted gun, because the case head is not properly supported in converted guns the use of standard pressure ammunition is recommended.
If the gun is not converted, not refinished and the barrel hasn't been shortened, then it may have some value to a collector. If it has been converted then it's value is quite low, probably around $150.
You probably have a commercial contract .38/200 British Service Revolver manufactured for the British Military Purchasing Commission in 1940 or 1941.
Especially after the evacuation from Dunkirk & the loss of the British expeditionary forces equipment, Britain was in dire need of weapons. The British Government contracted directly with S&W to provide handguns in their .38/200 caliber, which was a 200 grain bullet in a .38 S&W case, hence the .38 S&W stamping. The standard barrel length was 5 inches, but they took what they could get, including 4 inch guns.
Until March 3 1942 these guns were finished with S&Ws normal bluing, after that they were in a variety of military finishes. According to the Standard Catalog of S&W the British guns started at around seral number 680,000, so yours is likely one of the first chambered in that caliber.
Normally these guns are covered in British proof marks, if yours isn't then it may never have made it to England.
Anyway, 1940 to early 1942, with 1940 being likely.
Caveat: A lot of British Service Revolvers were reimported into the USA after the war, the barrel shortened and the cylinder bored out for .38 Special. If a .38 special will chamber then you have a converted gun, because the case head is not properly supported in converted guns the use of standard pressure ammunition is recommended.
If the gun is not converted, not refinished and the barrel hasn't been shortened, then it may have some value to a collector. If it has been converted then it's value is quite low, probably around $150.
odd duck continued
First, thanks for providing this service I appreciate it.
What is throwing me for a loop is that I have never before seen a 38/200 that did not have: crossed flags on the frame or U.S. Property on the strap or the markings of a police agency. I concur wholeheartly with your dating and the extreme unlikelyhood that this gun entered commerce in its initial delivery.
I am somewhat familiar with the markings of the Birmingham Proofhouse, the usual Commonwealth markings, Parker Hale post-war conversions etc.
Is there any awareness that perhaps India, South Africa or some other entity did not mark these guns?
Thanks, again.
First, thanks for providing this service I appreciate it.
What is throwing me for a loop is that I have never before seen a 38/200 that did not have: crossed flags on the frame or U.S. Property on the strap or the markings of a police agency. I concur wholeheartly with your dating and the extreme unlikelyhood that this gun entered commerce in its initial delivery.
I am somewhat familiar with the markings of the Birmingham Proofhouse, the usual Commonwealth markings, Parker Hale post-war conversions etc.
Is there any awareness that perhaps India, South Africa or some other entity did not mark these guns?
Thanks, again.
Production date query for 14-3
Hello all, new here although I've lurked for years.
I just bought my first "K-38" at the LGS the other day. I stripped it down, cleaned and lubed but have not taken it to the range as of yet; hope to on Friday. It doesn't look to have seen much use. The front sight was a little nicked, I stoned it and put a little touch up blue on it and again right at the muzzle where it had some holster wear. I own three "newer" SS J frames, one Ladysmith for, you guessed it, a 3" .357 5 shot that carries in a Milt Sparks and a 5" .357 5 shot, my lightweight trail gun for backpacking. My everyday load for all of them is a 158 cast semi wadcutter over 4.5 grains 700x, for about 800 fps and very accurate. This will be my starting load in this model 14 as well. I'm generally a 45 LC single action guy but have owned a couple Mtn. guns and a 629 in the past. I will be ordering a Sparks AW200 for this piece and in the 7 month interim have ordered a Galco Phoenix from Lightning arms for it.
Here goes, it's a model 14-3, pinned bbl, 38 S&W special ctg, narrow barrel, square butt, diamond on center of grip, trigger stop, target trigger, (I think), serrated barrel, patridge front, adj rear, 6 shot, weighs 32 oz., and serial number is:K 932710.
I should pony up and buy the famous book on S&W's, but am anxious to know the history of this little number. I suppose if the bug gets worse, then a .22 and .32 may be down the road.
Thanks in advance.
Hello all, new here although I've lurked for years.
I just bought my first "K-38" at the LGS the other day. I stripped it down, cleaned and lubed but have not taken it to the range as of yet; hope to on Friday. It doesn't look to have seen much use. The front sight was a little nicked, I stoned it and put a little touch up blue on it and again right at the muzzle where it had some holster wear. I own three "newer" SS J frames, one Ladysmith for, you guessed it, a 3" .357 5 shot that carries in a Milt Sparks and a 5" .357 5 shot, my lightweight trail gun for backpacking. My everyday load for all of them is a 158 cast semi wadcutter over 4.5 grains 700x, for about 800 fps and very accurate. This will be my starting load in this model 14 as well. I'm generally a 45 LC single action guy but have owned a couple Mtn. guns and a 629 in the past. I will be ordering a Sparks AW200 for this piece and in the 7 month interim have ordered a Galco Phoenix from Lightning arms for it.
Here goes, it's a model 14-3, pinned bbl, 38 S&W special ctg, narrow barrel, square butt, diamond on center of grip, trigger stop, target trigger, (I think), serrated barrel, patridge front, adj rear, 6 shot, weighs 32 oz., and serial number is:K 932710.
I should pony up and buy the famous book on S&W's, but am anxious to know the history of this little number. I suppose if the bug gets worse, then a .22 and .32 may be down the road.
Thanks in advance.
Attachments
Radagast
Member
elmbow:
Your Model 14 K38 Masterpiece dates to 1969, per the Standard Catalog of S&W. The diamond grips were officially discontinued in 1968, but S&W never wastes parts, so it looks like they were still using them up at that point. Either that or they are not original to the gun.
A service trigger was flat sided, a semi target trigger had a flair giving it a width of .375 of an inch, a target trigger has a flair giving a width of .6 of an inch.
Target and semi target triggers could be grooved or smooth.
Your Model 14 K38 Masterpiece dates to 1969, per the Standard Catalog of S&W. The diamond grips were officially discontinued in 1968, but S&W never wastes parts, so it looks like they were still using them up at that point. Either that or they are not original to the gun.
A service trigger was flat sided, a semi target trigger had a flair giving it a width of .375 of an inch, a target trigger has a flair giving a width of .6 of an inch.
Target and semi target triggers could be grooved or smooth.
Radagast
Member
waidmann:
I can't help you further. I know that Australian guns were marked, at least at the FTR stage. Canadian guns have their own version of the broad arrow, the South African guns I have seen (mainly Webleys) all had SAP markings, which may have been done well after the war as I've seen the same on a Beretta from there.
Modwerator Xavier Breath has a copy of a privately published book on the M&P revolver, you could PM him and ask if it has any further info. Otherwise try Old Fuff, or start a new thread in the firearms research subforum and see if you get any bites.
I can't help you further. I know that Australian guns were marked, at least at the FTR stage. Canadian guns have their own version of the broad arrow, the South African guns I have seen (mainly Webleys) all had SAP markings, which may have been done well after the war as I've seen the same on a Beretta from there.
Modwerator Xavier Breath has a copy of a privately published book on the M&P revolver, you could PM him and ask if it has any further info. Otherwise try Old Fuff, or start a new thread in the firearms research subforum and see if you get any bites.
Radagast
Member
1/7GRUNT:
Your Model 10-6 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1973 or 1974. Serial range for those years was D510001 to D659901, so 1973 seems likely.
Florey55:
That's the only .44/40 caliber .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model I've ever seen advertised here in OZ. Actually it's the only 44/40 S&W I've seen, period.
It dates to 1937. Serial range for that year was 48700 to 52000.
According to the Standard Catalog of S&W only 565 in total were made in .44/40.
The walnut round top grips were supposedly phased out in favour of the modern Magna style in 1936. It may be the grips are not standard to the gun, or S&W simply kept using existing stock of stocks until they were gone.
The price seems good, assuming an original finish, on the US market it would be worth $800 to $1250.
If I had a high caliber permit I would be tempted to buy it as a shooter.
Your Model 10-6 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1973 or 1974. Serial range for those years was D510001 to D659901, so 1973 seems likely.
Florey55:
That's the only .44/40 caliber .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model I've ever seen advertised here in OZ. Actually it's the only 44/40 S&W I've seen, period.
It dates to 1937. Serial range for that year was 48700 to 52000.
According to the Standard Catalog of S&W only 565 in total were made in .44/40.
The walnut round top grips were supposedly phased out in favour of the modern Magna style in 1936. It may be the grips are not standard to the gun, or S&W simply kept using existing stock of stocks until they were gone.
The price seems good, assuming an original finish, on the US market it would be worth $800 to $1250.
If I had a high caliber permit I would be tempted to buy it as a shooter.
Okay, I dont have much to work with on this because I'm doing it for a friend but all I know is
Model P2??? thats what he told me? he may have looked in the wrong spot
38 special
probably a 4" bbl or 3"
and the serial is C41906X
Any info is appreciated and if you need more just let me know and i'll get it from him, Thank you!!
Model P2??? thats what he told me? he may have looked in the wrong spot
38 special
probably a 4" bbl or 3"
and the serial is C41906X
Any info is appreciated and if you need more just let me know and i'll get it from him, Thank you!!
