Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers
- Thread starter Brian Williams
- Start date
a-.38 special, b-6inch bbl, c-square butt, d-6 shot, e- adj sgts ,f-18k01xx ,g-14-3, this is a single action only . I am curious if it came from the factory that way or was it converted later . thank you for your effort it is much appreciated . spence
Radagast
Member
pabner:
Your Model 36 Chiefs Special was manufactured in 1959. I can't give you a value on that unit, best to ask at www.smith-wessonforum.com
Spence:
Your Model 14-3 K38 Masterpiece Single Action was manufactured in 1977. If a factory variant then pulling the double action trigger will rotate the cylinder but not lift the hammer.
jd681:
Your Model 10-6 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1971.
Your Model 29-2 .44 Magnum was manufactured in 1975 or 1976, with 1976 being probable.
Your Model 36 Chiefs Special was manufactured in 1959. I can't give you a value on that unit, best to ask at www.smith-wessonforum.com
Spence:
Your Model 14-3 K38 Masterpiece Single Action was manufactured in 1977. If a factory variant then pulling the double action trigger will rotate the cylinder but not lift the hammer.
jd681:
Your Model 10-6 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1971.
Your Model 29-2 .44 Magnum was manufactured in 1975 or 1976, with 1976 being probable.
Radagast
Member
Ram48:
Your Model 36 .38 Chiefs Special was manufactured in 1971 or 1972, with 1971 being most likely. those are the only years that the J prefix 'floated' within the serial number.
dbmjr1:
Your Model 10-6 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1968.
The Standard Catalog of S&W mentions a special run of three inch standard barrel guns in 1967 for H.H. Harris of Chicago, possibly this was one of them, but I'm more inclined to believe its a one of special. The additional markings under the cylinder yoke are called assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory.
RealGun:
You know as much as I do. the 657 (no dash) was produced 1986-1988. The dates in the book are know shipping dates, with the serial numbers usually being allocated sequentially. So your frame was numbered prior to July 1987 and after January 1986.
Early 1987 would be my guesstimate.
Your Model 36 .38 Chiefs Special was manufactured in 1971 or 1972, with 1971 being most likely. those are the only years that the J prefix 'floated' within the serial number.
dbmjr1:
Your Model 10-6 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1968.
The Standard Catalog of S&W mentions a special run of three inch standard barrel guns in 1967 for H.H. Harris of Chicago, possibly this was one of them, but I'm more inclined to believe its a one of special. The additional markings under the cylinder yoke are called assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory.
RealGun:
You know as much as I do. the 657 (no dash) was produced 1986-1988. The dates in the book are know shipping dates, with the serial numbers usually being allocated sequentially. So your frame was numbered prior to July 1987 and after January 1986.
Early 1987 would be my guesstimate.
Radagast
Member
SW38:
Your gun is a pre-Victory model .38/200 British Service Revolver. The earliest serial number I know of was 685147 range, shipped 3rd May 1940 to the Union of South Africa. By the 12th April 1941 S&W were shipping guns in the 860,000 range.
There is no model number because model numbers were not introduced until 1957, the numbers under the cylinder yoke are assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory. They have no meaning after the gun is completed, only the serial number was recorded.
The S prefix was introduced in 1944 Some US service guns were retrofitted with the new hammer block and stamped with an S on the left upper frame. Yours is not a US service gun so it will not be stamped.
There are no US Property marks because it predates the Lend Lease agreement and was a private contract gun, either for Her Majesty's govt. or for an exporter. The lanyard loop was a requirement of the British contract guns, the order was for 5 inch barrels, but after Dunkirk they would take whatever was available as the BEF had abandoned its arms during the evacuation.
The finish is probably Black Magic, a proprietary rust bluing that S&W purchased from another company when it could not keep up with demand using its Carbonia bluing. The Black Magic finish appears to be parkerized when worn and is also relatively thin.
You are correct, it is a 5 screw gun.
For a $50 fee you can get a factory letter stating the date the gun left the factory, where it was shipped to and the original configuration.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_757825_-1_757814_757812_image
Edit: Caliber is .38 S&W. There is a different .38 Sort Colt that is still produced for the Cowboy competition crowd.
TWMaster:
The above info applies to your gun as well.
The patent dates are correct for a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change, which the British Service Revolver was based on.
Usually S&W stamped a B before the serial number under the barrel on its pre-war guns. Have another look and see if it could be a B. If it's an O it may refer to the wartime finish, I've never found out whether B stood for blued or for barrel.
The P may be for Proof, some guns were proofed at the factory during the war and marked with a P.
You are correct about the grips, they are post 1968 Magna grips.
The X is marking was used before and after the caliber designation.
Your gun is a pre-Victory model .38/200 British Service Revolver. The earliest serial number I know of was 685147 range, shipped 3rd May 1940 to the Union of South Africa. By the 12th April 1941 S&W were shipping guns in the 860,000 range.
There is no model number because model numbers were not introduced until 1957, the numbers under the cylinder yoke are assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory. They have no meaning after the gun is completed, only the serial number was recorded.
The S prefix was introduced in 1944 Some US service guns were retrofitted with the new hammer block and stamped with an S on the left upper frame. Yours is not a US service gun so it will not be stamped.
There are no US Property marks because it predates the Lend Lease agreement and was a private contract gun, either for Her Majesty's govt. or for an exporter. The lanyard loop was a requirement of the British contract guns, the order was for 5 inch barrels, but after Dunkirk they would take whatever was available as the BEF had abandoned its arms during the evacuation.
The finish is probably Black Magic, a proprietary rust bluing that S&W purchased from another company when it could not keep up with demand using its Carbonia bluing. The Black Magic finish appears to be parkerized when worn and is also relatively thin.
You are correct, it is a 5 screw gun.
For a $50 fee you can get a factory letter stating the date the gun left the factory, where it was shipped to and the original configuration.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_757825_-1_757814_757812_image
Edit: Caliber is .38 S&W. There is a different .38 Sort Colt that is still produced for the Cowboy competition crowd.
TWMaster:
The above info applies to your gun as well.
The patent dates are correct for a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change, which the British Service Revolver was based on.
Usually S&W stamped a B before the serial number under the barrel on its pre-war guns. Have another look and see if it could be a B. If it's an O it may refer to the wartime finish, I've never found out whether B stood for blued or for barrel.
The P may be for Proof, some guns were proofed at the factory during the war and marked with a P.
You are correct about the grips, they are post 1968 Magna grips.
The X is marking was used before and after the caliber designation.
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Radagast
Member
Pabner:
Just to clarify, the 3 inch tapered barrel is fairly rare, early guns coming up for sale are fairly rare and new in box is also unusual. So it will be worth more than the normal $350 to a collector, but less than a good condition N frame. Wild guess? $500 or so. I'm an Australian, so my knowledge of US gun prices is only gleaned from this forum and not particularly comprehensive.
The 2006 Standard Catalog of S&W gave a generic value of $425 for an as new in box Model 36.
Just to clarify, the 3 inch tapered barrel is fairly rare, early guns coming up for sale are fairly rare and new in box is also unusual. So it will be worth more than the normal $350 to a collector, but less than a good condition N frame. Wild guess? $500 or so. I'm an Australian, so my knowledge of US gun prices is only gleaned from this forum and not particularly comprehensive.
The 2006 Standard Catalog of S&W gave a generic value of $425 for an as new in box Model 36.
Twmaster
Member
Radagast, thank you. the information you've provided tracks mostly with information I've been supplied from other sources.
I'm 100% certain the letter preceding the serial number under the barrel is not a B. It is either a D or an O. See photo attached to this post please.
One point of contention seems to be the finish. As SW38 reports his gun also has a matte finish that sounds like Parkerization same as my gun has. Some of the other folks I've heard from say S&W did not ship these with anything but the blue carbonia finish during the years this gun was produced. However your comments and information in the SCSW (3rd Ed) support your comments.
I'm beginning to believe the pistol I have has it's original finish and is very nice.
I may invest in the factory letter.
SW38, could you possibly provide a photo of your gun? I'd really like to see it.
Thank you folks.
I'm 100% certain the letter preceding the serial number under the barrel is not a B. It is either a D or an O. See photo attached to this post please.
One point of contention seems to be the finish. As SW38 reports his gun also has a matte finish that sounds like Parkerization same as my gun has. Some of the other folks I've heard from say S&W did not ship these with anything but the blue carbonia finish during the years this gun was produced. However your comments and information in the SCSW (3rd Ed) support your comments.
I'm beginning to believe the pistol I have has it's original finish and is very nice.
I may invest in the factory letter.
SW38, could you possibly provide a photo of your gun? I'd really like to see it.
Thank you folks.
Attachments
Radagast
Member
Twmaster:
The SA BSR I mentioned is in this thread:
http://www.smithandwessonforums.com...itish-commonwealth-s-w-revolver-markings.html
If you look at the pics it is Carbonia blue.
The Australian gun above it was refinished after the war and is parkerized.
Your gun's finish falls between the two. which is why I think it is the Black Magic finish. We recently had a discussion on THR re the wartime finished, but I can't find it at the moment.
More info here:
http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/victory_model_smith_and_wesson.htm
The SA BSR I mentioned is in this thread:
http://www.smithandwessonforums.com...itish-commonwealth-s-w-revolver-markings.html
If you look at the pics it is Carbonia blue.
The Australian gun above it was refinished after the war and is parkerized.
Your gun's finish falls between the two. which is why I think it is the Black Magic finish. We recently had a discussion on THR re the wartime finished, but I can't find it at the moment.
More info here:
http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/victory_model_smith_and_wesson.htm
Radagast
Member
Just to add, you are right, its not a B. S&W used a zero as a serial number on certain guns given as prizes, so its not likely to be a zero on a contract gun. I honestly don't know what it stands for.
dbmjr1
Member
dbmjr1:
Your Model 10-6 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1968.
The Standard Catalog of S&W mentions a special run of three inch standard barrel guns in 1967 for H.H. Harris of Chicago, possibly this was one of them, but I'm more inclined to believe its a one of special. The additional markings under the cylinder yoke are called assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory.
Radagast: Thank You for the information. Just one more question, if I may.
Is there anything in the location of the stampings, or any indication at all, that the barrel of this revolver has been cut post factory?
Your Model 10-6 .38 Military & Police Heavy Barrel was manufactured in 1968.
The Standard Catalog of S&W mentions a special run of three inch standard barrel guns in 1967 for H.H. Harris of Chicago, possibly this was one of them, but I'm more inclined to believe its a one of special. The additional markings under the cylinder yoke are called assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory.
Radagast: Thank You for the information. Just one more question, if I may.
Is there anything in the location of the stampings, or any indication at all, that the barrel of this revolver has been cut post factory?
Radagast
Member
Yes, it has been cut. The stampings are centered on the factory 3 inch barrel. The front sight appears to be pinned rather than forged.
Its a high quality aftermarket job.
Edit: The grips are original diamond Magna's, 1968 was the last year that particular style was used.
Its a high quality aftermarket job.
Edit: The grips are original diamond Magna's, 1968 was the last year that particular style was used.
dbmjr1
Member
Thank You.
S&W 29-3 Silhouette
Could you provide date of manufacture and any information you have available on following
Model 29-3 Silhouette
10 5/8" barrel
44 magnum
Target Grips
Target Trigger
Target Hammer
SN: ADB 92**
Adjustable front and rear sights
Thank you for your assistance.
Could you provide date of manufacture and any information you have available on following
Model 29-3 Silhouette
10 5/8" barrel
44 magnum
Target Grips
Target Trigger
Target Hammer
SN: ADB 92**
Adjustable front and rear sights
Thank you for your assistance.
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Radagast
Member
ruger1228:
That serial number dates to 1984. The 10&5/8 inch barrel, adjustable front sight, Model 29 Silhouette variant was introduced in 1983 & discontinued in 1991. The product code was 101202.
Your version predates the Endurance Package redesign to stop timing issues when shot with heavy magnum loads. Although intended for the 200 meter Metallic Silhouette competition, I would be circumspect about giving it a battering and stick to mid level hand loads.
That serial number dates to 1984. The 10&5/8 inch barrel, adjustable front sight, Model 29 Silhouette variant was introduced in 1983 & discontinued in 1991. The product code was 101202.
Your version predates the Endurance Package redesign to stop timing issues when shot with heavy magnum loads. Although intended for the 200 meter Metallic Silhouette competition, I would be circumspect about giving it a battering and stick to mid level hand loads.
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Thanks Radagast. As with all my Model 29s I shoot mild 44 magnums or 44 Specials. I do have a 629 8 3/4" barrel that I use to hunt whitetail deer and shoot some pretty stout handloads in it but have not had any timing problems with it.
Again, Thank you for the information.
thom
Again, Thank you for the information.
thom
Radagast
Member
The Endurance package was incorporated in all Model 29-3E, 29-4, 29-5, etc.
Occasional use should not be an issue, Silhouette shooting at a competitive level will bring out any faults in the gun. A competition each weekend means 2000 rounds of hot hand loads in a year, any training on top of that would quickly build the round count.
Occasional use should not be an issue, Silhouette shooting at a competitive level will bring out any faults in the gun. A competition each weekend means 2000 rounds of hot hand loads in a year, any training on top of that would quickly build the round count.
pawkoon
Member
Smith and Wesson revolvers
1) K 201XXX serial number, .22 lr, P79585 stamped on the yoke, 6" barrel...I am not sure about anything else on this revolver. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
2) 1K69XXX serial number, .22 magnum, Mod 48-2 on the yolk, 6" barrel, mfg. date and any other info would be great.
1) K 201XXX serial number, .22 lr, P79585 stamped on the yoke, 6" barrel...I am not sure about anything else on this revolver. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
2) 1K69XXX serial number, .22 magnum, Mod 48-2 on the yolk, 6" barrel, mfg. date and any other info would be great.
Attachments
Radagast
Member
pawkoon:
The K prefix to a serial number was used by S&W to denote a medium 'K' frame gu with adjustable sights.
Gun one is a K22 Masterpiece manufactured in 1953. Model numbers were not introduced until 1957. The numbers on the yoke are assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory. They have no meaning after the gun is shipped as only the serial number was recorded.
The K22 Masterpiece was S&Ws premium rimfire target revolver for many years. The also make a K32 in .32 S&W Long & a K38 in 38 S&W Special. The complete set allowed the owner to compete in all of the pistol events at the Camp Perry National Championships.
In 1957 the K22 was designated the Model 17 and continued in production until 1989.
Your second gun is a Model 48-2 K22 Masterpiece Magnum Rimfire manufactured in 1971. The basic difference is the caliber. the -2 indicates the second design change since it was introduced.
Edit to add, the grips are original on the .22lr, as an early pre-model number gun its worth a bit more. If you ever need to sell it you will maximize your value by putting it on here or at the S&W collectors forum www.smith-wessonforum.com
The K prefix to a serial number was used by S&W to denote a medium 'K' frame gu with adjustable sights.
Gun one is a K22 Masterpiece manufactured in 1953. Model numbers were not introduced until 1957. The numbers on the yoke are assembly numbers, used to track parts in the factory. They have no meaning after the gun is shipped as only the serial number was recorded.
The K22 Masterpiece was S&Ws premium rimfire target revolver for many years. The also make a K32 in .32 S&W Long & a K38 in 38 S&W Special. The complete set allowed the owner to compete in all of the pistol events at the Camp Perry National Championships.
In 1957 the K22 was designated the Model 17 and continued in production until 1989.
Your second gun is a Model 48-2 K22 Masterpiece Magnum Rimfire manufactured in 1971. The basic difference is the caliber. the -2 indicates the second design change since it was introduced.
Edit to add, the grips are original on the .22lr, as an early pre-model number gun its worth a bit more. If you ever need to sell it you will maximize your value by putting it on here or at the S&W collectors forum www.smith-wessonforum.com
pawkoon
Member
Thanks for the quick reply, Radagast. This info was interesting to hear. I got both these from my Dad. I know without seeing them or better pics it would be hard to value them. Do you have an idea on the resale price range of both in, say 85%-90% condition?
Thanks again for the info.
Thanks again for the info.
joe_security
Member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2007
- Messages
- 490
Model 36 2" blue SB. Diamonds around the grip screws. The cylinder release is shaped like you would see on a charter arms. 336xxx. Thank you Sir !
Thanks
TWMaster: If I did this right, a photo of my gun should appear.
Radagast: Thank you very much! I'm patting myself on the back to have guessed right, even apparently gotten the year right (or within a few months). Since the first shipment you know of went to South Africa, I'm guessing that mine was among a surely small batch exported directly to Costa Rica. I am mildly curious to know whether it was first exported to Nicaragua or elsewhere only to migrate to Costa Rica--it could be--but unless I win the lottery I don't suppose it's worth fifty bucks to find out. The potentially more interesting history is what happened after the gun arrived.
As for the "short," I know nothing. My understanding was that it was simply a SW 38, but the guys in the gun shops keep calling the ammo "short."
TWMaster: If I did this right, a photo of my gun should appear.
Radagast: Thank you very much! I'm patting myself on the back to have guessed right, even apparently gotten the year right (or within a few months). Since the first shipment you know of went to South Africa, I'm guessing that mine was among a surely small batch exported directly to Costa Rica. I am mildly curious to know whether it was first exported to Nicaragua or elsewhere only to migrate to Costa Rica--it could be--but unless I win the lottery I don't suppose it's worth fifty bucks to find out. The potentially more interesting history is what happened after the gun arrived.
As for the "short," I know nothing. My understanding was that it was simply a SW 38, but the guys in the gun shops keep calling the ammo "short."
Attachments
Radagast
Member
pawkoon:
I am Australian, I don't have a great grasp of US prices. So take the following with a grain of salt. I would not be surprised if you achieved $550 to $650 for the K22, not sure about the Magnum as the Model 48 rarely comes up for sale and is not as popular due to the price of ammunition.
joe_security:
You have a Model 36 Chiefs Special. the cylinder release is known as a 'flat latch' and the gun may sometimes be called that to indicate its age. Diamond grips are correct for that era. Serial number 295000 shipped in 1962, serial number 392778 shipped in 1966. Based on the above and assuming a fairly constant rate of production, late 1963 or early 1964 seems likely for your gun.
I am Australian, I don't have a great grasp of US prices. So take the following with a grain of salt. I would not be surprised if you achieved $550 to $650 for the K22, not sure about the Magnum as the Model 48 rarely comes up for sale and is not as popular due to the price of ammunition.
joe_security:
You have a Model 36 Chiefs Special. the cylinder release is known as a 'flat latch' and the gun may sometimes be called that to indicate its age. Diamond grips are correct for that era. Serial number 295000 shipped in 1962, serial number 392778 shipped in 1966. Based on the above and assuming a fairly constant rate of production, late 1963 or early 1964 seems likely for your gun.
