birdshooter
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2010
- Messages
- 131
I've got another to date.
.22 lr
6"
Square
6 shot
Adjustable
K401XXX
17
.22 lr
6"
Square
6 shot
Adjustable
K401XXX
17
Identity and Date of Manufacture of S&W Revolvers
- Thread starter Brian Williams
- Start date
1KPerDay
Member
Thanks, Radagast. 
Radagast
Member
orpington:
Thanks!
rswartsell:
1920.
Heat treatment of cylinders began at serial number 316648, September 1919. serial number 358xxx shipped December 1920, so somewhere in between those dates.
birdshooter:
Your Model 17 K22 Masterpiece was manufactured in 1960.
Thanks!
rswartsell:
1920.
Heat treatment of cylinders began at serial number 316648, September 1919. serial number 358xxx shipped December 1920, so somewhere in between those dates.
birdshooter:
Your Model 17 K22 Masterpiece was manufactured in 1960.
rswartsell
Member
Thanks, as usual Radagast-you da man!
Radagast
Member
mrmom61:
Assuming six shot, fixed sights, you have a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change manufactured in 1934.
The US Coast guard took delivery of 25 revolvers in the serial range 646994 to 648882 19th November 1934.
It may not have shipped that year as the Great Depression saw S&W manufacturing and stockpiling frames to prevent laying off their workforce. Note the 25 guns mentioned above are spread over 1888 serial numbers - frames were not necessarily used consecutively.
Your gun has a heat treated cylinder and should be safe with any standard pressure or PlusP marked ammo. Avoid any ammunition marked +P+ as there is no industry standard for this and it could range from 20% over pressure to near .357 magnum pressures.
As it is an old gun, if it came with any ammo marked .38 High Speed, avoid that as well as it was the predecessor to the .357 magnum and intended to be used in large .44 framed size guns.
Your gun lacks the positive internal hammer block introduced after a fatality with a dropped gun during WWII. I would consider it prudent to treat it as a 5 shooter, leaving the hammer down on an empty chamber. It does have a non positive hammer block, but on at least one occasion it failed, hence my caution.
Assuming six shot, fixed sights, you have a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 4th Change manufactured in 1934.
The US Coast guard took delivery of 25 revolvers in the serial range 646994 to 648882 19th November 1934.
It may not have shipped that year as the Great Depression saw S&W manufacturing and stockpiling frames to prevent laying off their workforce. Note the 25 guns mentioned above are spread over 1888 serial numbers - frames were not necessarily used consecutively.
Your gun has a heat treated cylinder and should be safe with any standard pressure or PlusP marked ammo. Avoid any ammunition marked +P+ as there is no industry standard for this and it could range from 20% over pressure to near .357 magnum pressures.
As it is an old gun, if it came with any ammo marked .38 High Speed, avoid that as well as it was the predecessor to the .357 magnum and intended to be used in large .44 framed size guns.
Your gun lacks the positive internal hammer block introduced after a fatality with a dropped gun during WWII. I would consider it prudent to treat it as a 5 shooter, leaving the hammer down on an empty chamber. It does have a non positive hammer block, but on at least one occasion it failed, hence my caution.
birdshooter
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2010
- Messages
- 131
Thanks for the info Radagast!
OldBrownDog
Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
- Messages
- 335
Looking at this on an auction site, always wanted a nice Model 27, but I would love some info before I pull the trigger (ha!)
a. .357 Mag
b. 5 inch
c. Square butt
d. 6-shooter
e. Adjustable, patridge?
f. S255265
g. 27-2
Thanks for any help guys.
a. .357 Mag
b. 5 inch
c. Square butt
d. 6-shooter
e. Adjustable, patridge?
f. S255265
g. 27-2
Thanks for any help guys.
Radagast
Member
OldBrownDog:
1965 for that one. The Patridge front sight has a vertical or undercut rear face. They were the norm on the 6.5 inch barrels at one point. Most pics of 5 inch barrels that I have seen are with the ramped front sight.
FWIW, I have a 1968 Model 28 that I'll probably be buried with. I would hold great expectations for a 5 inch Model 27 from that era, and to own one is on my bucket list.
1965 for that one. The Patridge front sight has a vertical or undercut rear face. They were the norm on the 6.5 inch barrels at one point. Most pics of 5 inch barrels that I have seen are with the ramped front sight.
FWIW, I have a 1968 Model 28 that I'll probably be buried with. I would hold great expectations for a 5 inch Model 27 from that era, and to own one is on my bucket list.
OldBrownDog
Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
- Messages
- 335
And a pair I already own...
a. .357 Mag
b. 4 inch
c. Square butt
d. 6 shooter
e. fixed
f. AWL98XX
g. 65-3
a. .22LR
b. 6 inch
c. Square butt
d. 6-shooter
e. adjustable
f. 16K63XX
g. 17-2
a. .357 Mag
b. 4 inch
c. Square butt
d. 6 shooter
e. fixed
f. AWL98XX
g. 65-3
a. .22LR
b. 6 inch
c. Square butt
d. 6-shooter
e. adjustable
f. 16K63XX
g. 17-2
OldBrownDog
Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
- Messages
- 335
Thanks Radagast! I'm checking the pictures now, it's not a Patridge but ramped. That's what I get for going from memory.
OBD
OBD
Radagast
Member
OldBrownDog:
Your Model 17-2 K22 Masterpiece was manufactured in 1977.
Your Model 65-3 .357 Magnum Military & Police Heavy Barrel Stainless was manufactured in 1987.
Your Model 17-2 K22 Masterpiece was manufactured in 1977.
Your Model 65-3 .357 Magnum Military & Police Heavy Barrel Stainless was manufactured in 1987.
OldBrownDog
Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
- Messages
- 335
Thanks again Radagast. On your recommendation, I'm going for the 5" M27-2. It's a bucket-list gun for me too and I'm hoping I like it enough to want to be buried with it (I hope I bequeath it to a deserving descendant instead, though).
Radagast
Member
elogan:
The star indicates it went back to the factory for work at some point, new barrel, re-finish, action job, something requiring a return.
The serial number IDs your gun as a .38 Miltary & Police Model of 1905 4th Change manufactured between 1920 (serial number 358000) & 1927 (serial number 500000).
If stamped Made In USA then 1922 or later, if not, 1922 or earlier.
Basically your gun is a predecessor to the modern Model 10 revolver, but most parts will not interchange as there has been a dozen design changes in the last 90 years. It has a heat treated cylinder, so should be safe with any modern standard velocity or PlusP ammunition. Avoid anything marked +P+ or any old pre-1960s ammunition marked High Speed as these exceed industry pressure standards.
It has a non positive internal hammer block that failed at least once when a gun was dropped, with fatal consequences, leading to the design of the current positive hammer block in 1944. I would suggest caution and treat it as a 5 shooter, leaving the chamber under the hammer empty.
The frame is the medium 'K frame' and probably a square butt. Modern aftermarket grips should fit.
if you ever need spare parts then www.gunpartscorp.com is the 'wrecking yard' for old guns.
The star indicates it went back to the factory for work at some point, new barrel, re-finish, action job, something requiring a return.
The serial number IDs your gun as a .38 Miltary & Police Model of 1905 4th Change manufactured between 1920 (serial number 358000) & 1927 (serial number 500000).
If stamped Made In USA then 1922 or later, if not, 1922 or earlier.
Basically your gun is a predecessor to the modern Model 10 revolver, but most parts will not interchange as there has been a dozen design changes in the last 90 years. It has a heat treated cylinder, so should be safe with any modern standard velocity or PlusP ammunition. Avoid anything marked +P+ or any old pre-1960s ammunition marked High Speed as these exceed industry pressure standards.
It has a non positive internal hammer block that failed at least once when a gun was dropped, with fatal consequences, leading to the design of the current positive hammer block in 1944. I would suggest caution and treat it as a 5 shooter, leaving the chamber under the hammer empty.
The frame is the medium 'K frame' and probably a square butt. Modern aftermarket grips should fit.
if you ever need spare parts then www.gunpartscorp.com is the 'wrecking yard' for old guns.
Radagast
Member
spence:
Your Model 60 Chiefs Special Stainless was manufactured in 1984.
bullsear:
Your Model 66 Combat Magnum Stainless was manufactured in 1976.
Your Model 60 Chiefs Special Stainless was manufactured in 1984.
bullsear:
Your Model 66 Combat Magnum Stainless was manufactured in 1976.
LKLive13
Member
This was my grandfathers gun that he carried as a backup on the police department. I have never been told its age.
Chiefs Special
a) 38 Special
b) 1 3/4 in
c) Square
d) 5
e) Fixed
f) 576XXX
g) Mod 36 and 43765
I would like more info for this gun such as is it +P safe or not. Thanks for the help!
Chiefs Special
a) 38 Special
b) 1 3/4 in
c) Square
d) 5
e) Fixed
f) 576XXX
g) Mod 36 and 43765
I would like more info for this gun such as is it +P safe or not. Thanks for the help!
Radagast
Member
LKLive13:
Your Model 36 Chief Special was manufactured between 1966 (serial number 392278) & 1969 (serial number 786544).
If the grips are original and there is an uncheckered diamond around the grip screws, then 1966-1968. If the grips are original and the checkering runs right up to the screws, then 1968 or 1969.
S&W do not recommend the use of PlusP in guns made prior to 1957, mainly because thats when they introduced model numbers, so it is easy to say 'No model number under the crane, no PlusP. '
In reality all steel guns made after WWII should be fine with SAAMI standard PlusP ammo, if in good mechanical condition. Current PLusP loads are the equivalent of the old standard pressure load, which was reduced in the 70s or 80s as new pressure measuring equipment became available, and probably due to worries about guns from the 1899-1919 period that were not heat treated.
European standards are measured in a different way and are not directly comparable, but a rule of thumb comparison is that the European standard .38 Special pressure is equivalent to US PlusP.
Use of PlusP in early aluminum frame 'Airweight' guns is not a good idea, There have been reports through the years of frame stretching and timing issues after a couple of hundred rounds. I do wonder if this was with the current PlusP level or with earlier ammunition loaded considerably hotter - there was a .38 Special High Speed load from the 1930s to the 1960s that was a predecessor to the .357 Magnum. Regardless, I would only use PlusP in an alloy gun that is marked as suitable for PlusP.
+P+ is a different kettle of fish, there is no industry standard for this, as it was a way for police departments to get around bans on magnum ammunition. It could be a 20% increase in pressure over standard, or it could be close to .357 magnum pressures. You are unlikely to encounter it as it was not a commercial sales item and few departments have revolvers these days, so I doubt there is any being produced.
Clear as mud? TL,DR: If in good working order, your gun will be fine with any current manufacture standard pressure or PlusP pressure loads.
Your Model 36 Chief Special was manufactured between 1966 (serial number 392278) & 1969 (serial number 786544).
If the grips are original and there is an uncheckered diamond around the grip screws, then 1966-1968. If the grips are original and the checkering runs right up to the screws, then 1968 or 1969.
S&W do not recommend the use of PlusP in guns made prior to 1957, mainly because thats when they introduced model numbers, so it is easy to say 'No model number under the crane, no PlusP. '
In reality all steel guns made after WWII should be fine with SAAMI standard PlusP ammo, if in good mechanical condition. Current PLusP loads are the equivalent of the old standard pressure load, which was reduced in the 70s or 80s as new pressure measuring equipment became available, and probably due to worries about guns from the 1899-1919 period that were not heat treated.
European standards are measured in a different way and are not directly comparable, but a rule of thumb comparison is that the European standard .38 Special pressure is equivalent to US PlusP.
Use of PlusP in early aluminum frame 'Airweight' guns is not a good idea, There have been reports through the years of frame stretching and timing issues after a couple of hundred rounds. I do wonder if this was with the current PlusP level or with earlier ammunition loaded considerably hotter - there was a .38 Special High Speed load from the 1930s to the 1960s that was a predecessor to the .357 Magnum. Regardless, I would only use PlusP in an alloy gun that is marked as suitable for PlusP.
+P+ is a different kettle of fish, there is no industry standard for this, as it was a way for police departments to get around bans on magnum ammunition. It could be a 20% increase in pressure over standard, or it could be close to .357 magnum pressures. You are unlikely to encounter it as it was not a commercial sales item and few departments have revolvers these days, so I doubt there is any being produced.
Clear as mud? TL,DR: If in good working order, your gun will be fine with any current manufacture standard pressure or PlusP pressure loads.
NapalmMan67
Member
Two of them:
806XX w/Adj. rear sight and target hammer/trigger? I think this one is a Model 17. 22LR, 6 shot
D569XXX 2" snub This is a 10-5 .38 Special, 6 shot.
Sorry about the lack of initial info.
Both all original.
Thank you
806XX w/Adj. rear sight and target hammer/trigger? I think this one is a Model 17. 22LR, 6 shot
D569XXX 2" snub This is a 10-5 .38 Special, 6 shot.
Sorry about the lack of initial info.
Both all original.
Thank you
Last edited:
Radagast
Member
Need more data. 5 or 6 shot? What caliber? is there a model number stamped under the cylinder yoke?
