IDPA or IPSC?

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Neither of these disciplines is active in this benighted burg. However, I'm interested in IDPA. Ran into the local IPSC hot-shot the other day, who says he'd like to get something going locally also. There is certainly not enough interest keep two full-bore programs going.

So, I guess I have several questions. Do the board members have a preference for either discipline? Does anybody have any experience in a range where both are run? Can there be peaceful co-existance?

Case in point on that last question. IDPA was referred to as: I Don't Practice Anymore. On the other hand, I also know that the founders of IPSC, Columbia Conference people, are the founders of IDPA.

900F

 

[Sunray]

Doesn't matter. Both are shooting games and nothing more. Since you're starting with an IPSC guy, shoot that. Once you have a place for shooters to go, you can do whatever you like. They're two sides of the same coin. Just get whatever you can going and have fun with it. That's what it's for.

 

[Ankeny]

...and IPSC is short for Irritable People Squabbling Constantly. To answer you question, yes they can co-exist in the same club. There is really no reason for the constant us against them mentality that some people exhibit. I shoot both and I like both.

 

[faustulus]

Most of the squabbling you hear off these boards is in good fun, each has its strengths and its draw backs. But both are better than not shooting.

 

[cratz2]

But both are better than not shooting.

And that's the only thing you really need to read in this thread.

Just go expecting to learn and have fun and get experience shooting... don't expect to win.

 

[Kor]

If all you guys want to do is have fun shooting, you can just set up a club-level "Defensive", "Tactical" or "Combat" pistol match. Raid www.idpa.com and www.uspsa.com (IIRC) for stage ideas, find a welder who'll do ya up a buncha target stands, lay in a couple of BIG stacks of cardboard targets and buff target tape, beg/borrow/steal as many furring strips, 2X2's, 2X4's, plywood sheets and plastic/fiberboard 55-gallon drums as you can, and have at it. Honestly, Jeff Cooper himself started out doing much the same in Big Bear, CA("Leatherslap" competitions) and look what happened...

If you, your club, or your prospective shooters are looking to affiliate with an established shooting sport organization, I'd suggest IDPA, as it is intentionally set up to be VERY user-friendly for a club to join. The club pays a $50 affiliation fee, and gets a buncha literature, rule-books, Classifier instructions, and a "size box" so you can weed out the race-guns from the street-guns. Your club also gets listed in www.idpa.com, and you can cross-link if your club has a website - that way IDPA shooters know they can come to your club, and new shooters know they can play the sport at your club. There's also very minimal administration required for an IDPA club - just run your matches by the rules, and hold at least 6 matches (IIRC) per year. You don't ever have to deal with the parent organization unless you decide to host a state or regional championship match.

IDPA is also comparatively easy for new shooters to join and to gear up for, since you don't ever get to use all that cool, pricey race gear. Street gun, street holster, no more than 4 10-rd mags or speedloaders on your body. Stages are supposed to be limited to 18 rounds max per string, most people only need 100-150rds for a whole match unless you're really going whole hog. At the club where I shoot IDPA, 3-5 guys usually set up a 6-7 stage monthly match in 30-45 minutes, 15-30 of us shoot from 9AM to noon or 1PM, clean up after ourselves, and we're outta there by 1:30 or 2.

That said, however, IPSC is usually a lot more exciting and challenging to shoot than IDPA. If you decide to go the IPSC route, though, be prepared for a lot more admin work both during the match(tabulating scores, keeping Vickers vs. Comstock scoring straight, monitoring equipment for competitive legality, etc) and after(forwarding match results/scores to USPSA, classifying/re-classifying shooters, etc).

A "best of both worlds" compromise might be to hold IDPA matches and include, every now and then, a high-round-count, IPSC-style run-'n-gun stage just for fun. As long as it's not part of an "officially sanctioned" match, it should be cool. You could also set it up as a side-match for fun, after the normal match. Just be sure to give people some advance notice so they can bring more ammo and mags if they're gonna need 'em for that stage. I can guarantee you, if you do predominantly IPSC, once your shooters get used to running & gunning, they're NOT going to want to throttle back to IDPA-style shooting.

 

[Jeeper]

I wouldnt sweat doing either. IPSC allows IDPA type guns in but that is not the truth in reverse. Production in IPSC is the same as IDPA. No fancy guns needed. I have shot both for years and both are fun. Each have good parts and each have stupid parts. I have seen more squabbling at local IDPA matches because in USPSA you can basically shoot the stage however you want. IDPA is alittle more rule oriented with using cover and alike. Both have classifiers. If I remember correctly you have to be an IDPA member to shoot at club matches. this isnt the same with IPSC. The truth is that if any club in either is really anal retentive about the rules then it isnt any fun. Strict rules (besides safety) are really for big matches only in my opinion. Just setup a club that is fun and allows everyone to shoot without being penalized for every minute detail. I have been to clubs that shot IPSC that sucked and them same with a few IDPA clube. The real difference isnt IDPA vs. IPSC it is the difference between a good club and a crappy one.

 

[TonyB]

I like IDPA better,but thats just me....anytime I can shoot my gun is good though.....IDPA would probably be easier to start up..that way people with regular guns and gear could do it with out major investments.....IMO

 

[OF]

Shoot 'em both! We just started a club up here in Maine (see sig link) and chose IDPA for a number of reasons: it's easier to start and run than an IPSC club, cheaper for us, simpler the competitors (and we have alot of people coming who have never shot a practical pistol match before, and we find IDPA tends to be less intimidating). But I love shooting IPSC and hope to get a race gun soon - in the meantime I just shoot the same gear I shoot IDPA with. Even shot an IPSC match from my IWB one day

I would have been happy starting either type of club, but IDPA made more sense for a first club.

Just get out and shoot!

- Gabe

 

[Mikul]

They can exist at the same club. Many people will shoot both. They're both games and both a lot of fun.

I like shooting IDPA better, not because of the game, but beause the people are more fun. There's no prizes at stake so everyone at IDPA is there just because they like to shoot.

 

[raz-0]

they both kick butt over standing at a port plinking paper.

by a lot.

it's fun.

yup.

 

[OF]

they both kick butt over standing at a port plinking paper.

I hear that. Once you've tried practical shooting once, you are forever ruined for standing still putting little holes in paper. Ruined. Forever.

- Gabe

 

[HankB]

My opinion . . . IDPA is more fun, and makes at least a nod to practicality. You can shoot it with pretty much what is in your gun case right now, and be confident that you'll be competing against others with similar equipment. Except for safety rules (which you WANT to be strict) club matches are usually more "relaxed" and there are few ammo requirements. The only really oddball rules are for an occasional "tactical" reload. (Which is decidedly UN-tactical.)

IPSC is more competitive, with some of the equipment allowed being downright silly. They do have categories for "normal" guns and such, but there's still a bit of an equipment race. IPSC rules for "minor" and "major" caliber are, well, questionable.

The top tier of IPSC shooters are very, very, good, and probably shoot upwards of 1000 rounds per week in serious training to stay that way.

 

[OF]

Well, just to even this out: my opinion

I find IPSC more fun, generally. I like the freestyle nature and high round counts and don't find the "equipment race" to be all that big a deal. I also find the "I'm tactical and you're not" attitude in IDPA can be distasteful, (and you're hearing this from the CSO of a local IDPA club!) but this varies widely from club to club, so I wouldn't really make a decision on whether to go to a match based on that. Go to the match. If you get turned off, go to a different match next time.

For IPSC, if you want to be competitive in open class, you will need the gear, but it's not like you have to buy a new holster every month. It's like buying a set of golf clubs. Buy it, shoot it. Later, if you want to upgrade, go for it - but it's not like you are going to start losing if you don't drop a grand on new gear every 6 months. Frankly, I don't buy the 'equipment race' thing. Just because you need to spend money to go SCUBA diving doesn't mean diving is an 'equipment race'. I think you're actually less likely to need to buy gear to get in on an IPSC limited-class game than you are for IDPA. IDPA has a list of approved holsters, guns and equipment which your current carry gear may or not be on. IPSC does not care. You can shoot pretty much anything. Your existing gear is more likely to be usable in IPSC limited-10 without modification or new purchases than it is in IDPA.

I've shot IPSC from an IWB. I didn't win, but I didn't lose either

Bottom line: opinions vary, you'll just have to find out for yourself what is more to your liking. Try them both before forming your own opinion, don't let us tell you what's fun what's not. The good news is: you'll have a blast figuring out which you like better.

- Gabe

 

[bailer]

IDPA got me started in practical shooting. To a newbie, 30+ round stages in USPSA were intimidating. One day I got confused about the schedule and showed up for a USPSA match expecting IDPA. With my three eight round mags I couldn't even finish two of the stages. I still had more fun than I ever had in IDPA. Instead of the detailed description on exactly how to shoot the stage it said "shoot as they become visible". I still shoot an occasional IDPA match, but given a choice, USPSA is more enjoyable.

I also think the equipment issue is overblown. I use a lightweight commander from time to time in limited 10, and enjoy it. It's only reluctance to wear out the aluminum frame that keeps me from using it more often. It's no less competitive in Limited 10 than in CDP.

 

[444]

I agree with the idea of not getting hung up on what to call it. Just get out there and shoot. There are tons of drills and courses of fire on-line that you can use to design your stages. You can modify them to suit your needs. You can try to make them more realistic, more fun or to emphasize
someparticular skill in gun handling or tactics.
The problem of course is that if it takes off in your area you are going to eventually need some rules to go by. You could come up with your own rules or use those of an already established sport. I once shot a match that was called a "combat match". If you wanted to shoot using IDPA rules you could. And if you didn't, you could do that also. That particular club had a lot of complaints about the gear requirements of IDPA. Guys were complaining that they couldn't use their actual carry gear. So, the club said that you could use your carry gear and if it didn't comply with IDPAs rules, so be it. In other words, they basically used IDPA rules with their own modifications. It got more people shooting their matches.
Every one of these "practical" or "action" shooting sports started out as a way to practice handgun skills for use in combat. However as the sports evolved, people's desire to win overcame their desire to maintain some degree of reality. This is where the rules come into play.
Keep in mind that your courses of fire don't have to be realistic to be valuable. Obviously there is no way you can practice a totally realistic senario without getting someone killed. The closest we can come would be something like Simmunitions or Airsoft where you are actually engaging another human with something that fires a projectile. However even this is not totally realistic because everyone is pretty sure they arn't going to die, a lot of stuff that isn't cover to bullets is cover to simmunitions etc. Therefore we practice things that make us better shooters and things that make us think about what we are doing and why we are doing it. Some courses of fire in IDPA might dictate mag changes when your gun still has ammo in it. The reason is to practice your reloads; reloading being one of those skills that you need to learn. Decide what you want to work on and design your course of fire around those goals.

 

[buzz meeks]

CB-

Howdy. I live in Great Falls and am interested in some local competition. Where are you?