If so many people are anti gun, why are most of the top shows on tv gun related?
- Thread starter JLStorm
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Handgun Midas
Member
Well, maybe we should.default said:
I know this is idealistic thinking, therefore its use is limited, but I for one try hard to keep the politics, ideals,
and messages of my media intake on par with my personal beliefs and practices.
As a result, I find almost all TV shows intolerable.
At the same time, I play plenty of video games that should be considered violent and even graphic;
however I accept violence as a facet of life and I do what is necessary to keep myself secure.
You've repeated that idea, but I don't believe you have defined
what behavior we are supposedly incorrectly labeling as hypocritical.
So I submit my own example:
If a person indulges in violent television and movies, specifically enjoying the parts with shooting,
but yet personally feels that they and their fellow citizens should not be armed, then that is clearly hypocritical.
This sort of person is amusing themselves with content that they don't believe in.
But that example examines a specific type of content in a fairly literal way.
Things get messier when you change the genre of the viewed content unless
we look at the values and messages of the content instead of just the description.
For instance, I really enjoy the movie Se7en, but this does not mean that I enjoy or support murders.
Murders are drama and drama is enticing, so this movie appeals to me for the same reason as the rest of its audience.
However, what is the point of Se7en? It is not to watch murders and it certainly is deeper than
"good triumphs over evil" (although who would argue with that?).
The point of Se7en is to examine the social and moral decay of a modern, urban society.
Even if the message of that film were to be completely untrue, I still agree with that message
and it is a key factor in my enjoyment of the film.
Therefore I don't believe that my affection for a movie based on murders
makes my non-murdering self a hypocrite.
If somebody loves watching shows where cops and heroes catch and shoot criminals and terrorists,
because they believe that criminals and terrorists should be caught and killed by sanctioned authorities,
that also does not make that person a hypocrite.
But you won't catch me hanging out with them watching 24.
But if you have a group of people that only tune in when they know there with be gunplay depicted,
and then support gun control and deride concealed-carry, then that group of people are pretty comfortably hypocritical.
They are saying
"Show me, show me, show me guns. But I don't ever want to to see a real one."
They are saying
"I want to watch some good violence. But if confronted I don't deserve to return violence to defend myself."
That's a hypocrite where I come from.
mike101
Member
"if the majority of people are so anti gun,".
As far as I know, that is not the case. The last poll on the subject, that I saw right here on THR, was 51/49% in our favor. Don't listen to the Bradys. I think a lot of people are probably under the same impression because the antis make a lot more noise than we do, and they don't bother concerning themselves with facts. We need to start making some real noise of our own.
God help us if it ever swings the other way, though. It's already way too close for comfort.
As far as I know, that is not the case. The last poll on the subject, that I saw right here on THR, was 51/49% in our favor. Don't listen to the Bradys. I think a lot of people are probably under the same impression because the antis make a lot more noise than we do, and they don't bother concerning themselves with facts. We need to start making some real noise of our own.
God help us if it ever swings the other way, though. It's already way too close for comfort.
Kael
Member
Jericho is pretty good.
The Unit (CBS's show on Delta Force) is very pro-rkba. One of the characters (a civilian) had a CCW, and her boss freaked out about her having a gun. She explained how it was perfectly reasonable for her to want to defend herself. The episode ends with both of their lives being saved because of it, and the boss seeing the light. Also had an episode of a retired ranger teaching his 12 year old daughter to shoot rifles safely. Great show.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
As far as showing guns, but not using them, Law and Order(the original) does a pretty good job. The detectives and police on that show are pretty true to reality in that they have their weapons drawn quite a bit when serving warrants and such, but I think I have seen them actually fire maybe twice in all the episodes I have seen.
Of course Law and Order does a pretty terrible job of portraying civilian gun owners in a good light, only police. Any time the detectives come upon a civilian who happens to own a gun it is almost ALWAYS the murder weapon, and the owner is the bad guy. You never see them interview just a regular witness who happens to own a gun, but isn't a criminal. Law and Order does a good job portraying police with guns, but a horrendous job portraying normal people with guns.
Of course Law and Order does a pretty terrible job of portraying civilian gun owners in a good light, only police. Any time the detectives come upon a civilian who happens to own a gun it is almost ALWAYS the murder weapon, and the owner is the bad guy. You never see them interview just a regular witness who happens to own a gun, but isn't a criminal. Law and Order does a good job portraying police with guns, but a horrendous job portraying normal people with guns.
I think most peole who are anti-gun feel themselves inept, inadequate, or irresponsible. Basically they don't trust themselves. Since they feel this way personally, they also think everybody else is the same - untrustworthy. Yet they need protection. So they need the fantasy that there ARE a few heroes out there who will protect them; "real" men, and "real" women, who, unlike themselves, can, & will, fight through all adversity, right all wrongs, and as a bonus are typically attractive, entertaining individuals these antis can look up to. They want to trust the cops and agents and the Bauers - they NEED to. What better way to enforce this dependency then to see their heroes triumph over evil week after week?...or see the deserving bad-guy get his at the end of a 2 hr movie?
On this note, be sure of this - it is the antis who are compensating for something - they are the ones who feel inadequate; so much so they do not even have the self-confidence to provide for their own family's security...it is rather sad actually.
On this note, be sure of this - it is the antis who are compensating for something - they are the ones who feel inadequate; so much so they do not even have the self-confidence to provide for their own family's security...it is rather sad actually.
PILMAN
Member
Funny this was brought up.
I post over on a British airsoft forum known as "Arnies" and you'd think that most would be dyeing to own a real gun if they are into airsoft and war movies.
Apparently the most common response is that they have an interest in gun culture and are mystified by them, but at the same time they don't like the fact that using a real gun that they can kill someone. They prefer a safe environment so to speak watching movies or using airsoft replicas. Quite a shame if you ask me considering they are missing out on all the fun.
Most express that they feel if they had a gun, that they would end up killing someone or don't know enough about them.
I post over on a British airsoft forum known as "Arnies" and you'd think that most would be dyeing to own a real gun if they are into airsoft and war movies.
Apparently the most common response is that they have an interest in gun culture and are mystified by them, but at the same time they don't like the fact that using a real gun that they can kill someone. They prefer a safe environment so to speak watching movies or using airsoft replicas. Quite a shame if you ask me considering they are missing out on all the fun.
Most express that they feel if they had a gun, that they would end up killing someone or don't know enough about them.
I flipped onto that "The Unit" show one night on CBS. At first I was skeptical about how accurate it was going to be. I thought it was going to be as dopey as those "Delta Force" movies. But it's actually pretty good. Very factual.
They showed a team of snipers using .50BMG sniper rifles! With spotters too!
Usually buried in books nowadays.
They showed a team of snipers using .50BMG sniper rifles! With spotters too!
Usually buried in books nowadays.
Deanimator
Member
Survey says, HYPOCRISY!
Media people never let their "morals" get in the way of their checkbooks, be it the alleged "evil" of guns or feminism.
MY version of the "Law & Order, SVU" intro:
"On television, sexually based offenses are considered the most entertaining. The dedicated S&M writers who bring these atrocities to you are known as Wolf Films. These are their stories..."
Handgun Midas
Member
That's a really good point.shield20 said:
I've encountered the type before; I had a work friend criticize my carrying a
gun because he insisted that he would shoot the first person who cut him off
on the highway if he had a gun.
I insisted that I do not act the same way, but I don't think he believed me.
Thank you for posting this. Not only is this clearly hypocritical,PILMAN said:
but I feel that it is downright perverted.
I never understood the appeal of airsoft myself,
outside of using them for practice for the real thing.
I don't think it's a good idea to take something found on almost every
street in America and relegate it strictly to fantasy.
Don't they split focus with the wives of said unit?JohnL2 said:
I flipped onto the show once and they had a couple of soldiers' wives wearing identical trench coats,
walking around some dusty country performing espionage or ransom or something.
That kind of "creative license" forfeits the show for me.
Robert Hairless
Member
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pilman:
People who feel that they will kill someone if they had a gun are dangerous, I think, and are best avoided. I understand that serial rapists and child molesters can't control themselves either. So it's good that those airsoft people recognize their compulsion and avoid the object that they believe would turn them into homicidal maniacs.
Back to the topic of this thread ....
On television the bad guys are usually thwarted by the good guys: good triumphs over evil. The bad guys might be really evil and murder, rape, or beat lots of people before they are put down or put away. But there has never been even one case in which the people watching the television set were among those murdered, raped, or beaten by the bad guys they watch on television. It's not reality. It's fantasy, and very comforting fantasy too.
Fantasies like those, when repeated over and over every night, do a lot of harm. They make many people blur the line between reality and fantasy.
I've been in converations among highly educated people who have actually said things like "A policeman should never shoot at a suspect. The most he should do is shoot the gun out of a suspect's hand."
I've also heard some of the same people say both that only the police should have guns and that the police should only use tear gas. I heard them say it in the same conversation.
Even a lot of people in gun forums think that they're well prepared to defend themselves if they carry pepper spray to repel attackers armed with guns and/or knives.
A highly experienced friend told me that when he was in the same kind of conversation a few months ago he tried to correct those people by explaining reality to them, but they laughed at him and explained that they knew they were right because they saw it all on television and in movies. They could trust their own eyes, couldn't they?
It's sad.
People who feel that they will kill someone if they had a gun are dangerous, I think, and are best avoided. I understand that serial rapists and child molesters can't control themselves either. So it's good that those airsoft people recognize their compulsion and avoid the object that they believe would turn them into homicidal maniacs.
Back to the topic of this thread ....
On television the bad guys are usually thwarted by the good guys: good triumphs over evil. The bad guys might be really evil and murder, rape, or beat lots of people before they are put down or put away. But there has never been even one case in which the people watching the television set were among those murdered, raped, or beaten by the bad guys they watch on television. It's not reality. It's fantasy, and very comforting fantasy too.
Fantasies like those, when repeated over and over every night, do a lot of harm. They make many people blur the line between reality and fantasy.
I've been in converations among highly educated people who have actually said things like "A policeman should never shoot at a suspect. The most he should do is shoot the gun out of a suspect's hand."
I've also heard some of the same people say both that only the police should have guns and that the police should only use tear gas. I heard them say it in the same conversation.
Even a lot of people in gun forums think that they're well prepared to defend themselves if they carry pepper spray to repel attackers armed with guns and/or knives.
A highly experienced friend told me that when he was in the same kind of conversation a few months ago he tried to correct those people by explaining reality to them, but they laughed at him and explained that they knew they were right because they saw it all on television and in movies. They could trust their own eyes, couldn't they?
It's sad.
General Geoff
Member
To that kind of stereotyping and brainwashing, actions (or lack thereof) speak louder than words.
Usually the fact that I've been carrying a gun for over a year and have yet to shoot, attempt to shoot, brandish, or even so much as unsnap the thumb break on my holster, is tantamount to proving that guns do not generate violence.
Usually the fact that I've been carrying a gun for over a year and have yet to shoot, attempt to shoot, brandish, or even so much as unsnap the thumb break on my holster, is tantamount to proving that guns do not generate violence.
Davo
Member
Your average guy isnt too bright...and most dont think twice about all of the violence they "relax" to after a hard day. But here in Kali that same guy has been manipulated to believe that if my handgun holds 12 rounds, its a "weapon of mass destruction".
Most people dont get into it that deep to ask questions like yours.
Most people dont get into it that deep to ask questions like yours.
Well, I suppose I'm talking more about the first group. As the for the second, that has to be a fairly rare type - an antigun zealot who watches movies and TV only for the shooting. Even then, that strikes me as more "weird" than hypocritical.
A good basic definition of hypocrisy would be publicly stating or pretending to believe one thing while privately believing or doing another. A politician or celebrity who abhors concealed carry while packing a J-frame would be a perfect example. The Brady campaigner who watches 24 may have some unresolved contradictions, but is not a hypocrite, at least by this fairly strict definition.
So, in the end, I don't see how your enjoyment of Se7en is in principle different from an anti's enjoyment of, say, Ronin, unless you are concealing the fact that you are turned on by bizarre murders, and all that stuff about the decay of society is just fluff to distract people from your perverse entertainment agenda. Now, of course, I don't believe this to be the case about your liking of the film, I'm just trying to show what I would consider to be "hypocritical".
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this, but thanks for the thoughtful and detailed responses!
cbsbyte
Member
Don't know I have never watched it. I rarely watch network TV any longer because most of the shows do not interest me. Its great some new shows are at least are slightly pro RKBA. Still most TV shows I have seen have a very anti gun message when the subject comes up. I use to like the CSI: LV but stoped watching after several shows cast gun owners in a very negative light.
Phaetos
Member
Not true. Take the CSI epsiodes. They are always open carrying no matter where they go, whether they are ever used or not.
Tim Currie
Member
Damnit, doesn't anyone else besides me watch Jericho?
I'm hooked on that damn show (the only series I watch).
I think guns have been featured, pretty much always in a positive light, in basically every single episode or very close to it.
Everyone's packin' for self defense in the show. Many, many times the towns people use their guns to thwart armed bad guys. One main character was shown teaching his teenage daughter how to properly shoot, saying it was time she learned...later she saves Dad by shooting the bad guy.
Just on tonights episode a young brother and sister are shown out by themselves with a rifle trying to hunt rabbit for food (they're all out of food....). Etc, etc, etc....
I never figured out why nobody talks about the show on this forum....
I'm hooked on that damn show (the only series I watch).
I think guns have been featured, pretty much always in a positive light, in basically every single episode or very close to it.
Everyone's packin' for self defense in the show. Many, many times the towns people use their guns to thwart armed bad guys. One main character was shown teaching his teenage daughter how to properly shoot, saying it was time she learned...later she saves Dad by shooting the bad guy.
Just on tonights episode a young brother and sister are shown out by themselves with a rifle trying to hunt rabbit for food (they're all out of food....). Etc, etc, etc....
I never figured out why nobody talks about the show on this forum....
Damien45
Member
One thing occured to me while reading most of the replies. The other side of the "cop show coin" is when they bring up the fact that said character has a registered gun. It is always an accusation as opposed to stated matter-of-factly. It is annoying that EVERY cop show has the "registered handgun" be the murder weapon. Talk about propaganda.
Tom609
Member
Jericho
Fear not, Tim Currie. I too like the show.
It's actually the theme that got me back into firearms - i.e. katrina. Considering all the SHTF people around here, you would think more would admit watching it. It goes to prove that a well stocked gun cabinet compliments a well stocked pantry. It's one of the few shows that implies that guns in the hands of responsible citizens can be a good thing.
Fear not, Tim Currie. I too like the show.
It's actually the theme that got me back into firearms - i.e. katrina. Considering all the SHTF people around here, you would think more would admit watching it. It goes to prove that a well stocked gun cabinet compliments a well stocked pantry. It's one of the few shows that implies that guns in the hands of responsible citizens can be a good thing.
IllHunter
Member
I usually comment...
during the tv show when someone does the ridiculus... last night on CSI NY, Marlee Maitlin (the deaf actress) played a deaf witness who ...catch this....identified a shotgun by the vibrations it made down the hall and in another room to her feet! Some feat..feet...? Yes she diferentiated between Mossberg, Remingtons and other 12 gauge guns fired into a tube "at the scene of the crime" but of course the bad guy didn't fire into tube but into the midsection of her 19 yo daughter at a range of +-1ft. Anybody have any experience with 12ga "Good Vibrations"?
during the tv show when someone does the ridiculus... last night on CSI NY, Marlee Maitlin (the deaf actress) played a deaf witness who ...catch this....identified a shotgun by the vibrations it made down the hall and in another room to her feet! Some feat..feet...? Yes she diferentiated between Mossberg, Remingtons and other 12 gauge guns fired into a tube "at the scene of the crime" but of course the bad guy didn't fire into tube but into the midsection of her 19 yo daughter at a range of +-1ft. Anybody have any experience with 12ga "Good Vibrations"?
RealGun
Member
That's pretty much it IMO. However, one could go further and say that there is an element of conspiracy to it.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a show about Minute Men on the border or some legitimate militia. Only cops and feds should be armed or be heroes.
Shovelhead
Member
Different spin on the same basic question:
Why do so many actors and actresses that make millions of dollars portraying characters with a gun in their hands, always seem to wind up on the support lists of the gun grabbers organizations?
:banghead:
here's just a few from:
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15
Kevin Bacon - Actor
George Clooney - Actor
Kevin Costner - Actor
David Duchovny - Actor
Hal Linden - Actor
Robert Redford - Actor/Director
Renee Russo - Actress
Sylvester Stallone - Actor
Sharon Stone - Actress
Sigourney Weaver - Actress
Why do so many actors and actresses that make millions of dollars portraying characters with a gun in their hands, always seem to wind up on the support lists of the gun grabbers organizations?
:banghead:here's just a few from:
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15
Kevin Bacon - Actor
George Clooney - Actor
Kevin Costner - Actor
David Duchovny - Actor
Hal Linden - Actor
Robert Redford - Actor/Director
Renee Russo - Actress
Sylvester Stallone - Actor
Sharon Stone - Actress
Sigourney Weaver - Actress
MikeG
Member
It's that liberal assumed superiority. It's fine for the elite to have firearms, but we peasants can't be trusted with sporks.
On a related note, I've wondered for years how people can suspend belief for all kinds of supernatural horror movies and such, but reject Religion as irrational?
ReadyontheRight
Member
The typical big government control motto:
"It's OK for me, but not for thee"
and
"I got mine, now you can't have yours"
Works for money, the environment, guns. Pretty much any freedom they want to take away does not apply to those who are taking it away.
"It's OK for me, but not for thee"
and
"I got mine, now you can't have yours"
Works for money, the environment, guns. Pretty much any freedom they want to take away does not apply to those who are taking it away.
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