I was reading on another forum about all the firearm banning talk and then I had a thought. What would I use to protect myself and loved ones if I did not own firearms? That's a tough question for me really, I guess for in home defense it would be a sword. I have been a martial artist for over 5 years but I do not specialize in weapons, that is something id like to look into so that I can become proficient with a sword. Whats your weapon of choice and why?
If we didn't have guns....
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Dirty Dawg
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I'd go with a machete. They've been used effectively as weapons countless times and don't require much training.
If you can use a sword, you can use a stick, but there are specialized stick techs you have to study stick to learn.
Sticks are impossible to outlaw. There are too many tools that are stick-like. If you can use a stick well, you will always have quick access to defensive tools.
At close range, the most devastating manual weapon is the spear. It's amazingly fast and powerful and almost impossible to stop.
John
Sticks are impossible to outlaw. There are too many tools that are stick-like. If you can use a stick well, you will always have quick access to defensive tools.
At close range, the most devastating manual weapon is the spear. It's amazingly fast and powerful and almost impossible to stop.
John
indoorsoccerfrea
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easy! a bow. anything from long distance to up close and personal. maybe a crossbow?
alaskanativeson
Member
A German Shepherd. Oh, wait, I already have two. They're a great defense tool, and they are a wonderful source of stress relief after a long day with rowdy kids (at least my dogs listen to me.)
laguna0seca
Member
Louie: my trusty 33 inch baseball bat.
if not that, then I can probably find a hockey stick close.
if not that, then I can probably find a hockey stick close.
TimboKhan
Member
The bow has come up a time or two in conversations like these, and the general consensus seems to be that they are relatively pointless as a SD weapon. Not because you can't kill someone deader than a doornail, but because the average guy isn't going to be able to get more than maybe two hasty shots off. Once they are close, the bow isn't a particularly good impact weapon, either.
My non-gun armory would consist of a bat or some bat-like object and a spear. The spear is a devastating weapon that is frequently overlooked for some reason.
7X57chilmau
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I keep around the house and handy,:
A spear, 6'-6"OAL, 13" socketed head, 1-1/8" hardwood
A Kukri
A 10" double edged dagger
A katana
A sharp tai-chi sword
Various Hittin' sticks.
Should do....
J
A spear, 6'-6"OAL, 13" socketed head, 1-1/8" hardwood
A Kukri
A 10" double edged dagger
A katana
A sharp tai-chi sword
Various Hittin' sticks.
Should do....
J
Personally I think a bow is a good way to get yourself killed. I keep a Louisville slugger beside my bed as well! However, I think I would like something with a little more range that can slice. I like the machete idea. What company makes a decent machete?
Carl Levitian
member
I'm a big champion of the stick. They're eveywhere, easy to make, trees are plentifull. It's mans oldest weapon, even chimps have been observed using a stick.
All that being said, look at the travelers on roads in the ancient days, they were not all old farts hat needed a staff to lean on. And if you have to go through the valley of the shadow, "thy rod abd thy staff will comfort me". A rod is a short staff about as high as your lowest rib. The short length makes it a bit more handy in tight places. Alleys, markets, crowds. In the mideast today, you still see middle age men carrying a short rod lenth stick.
If guns were banned, you'll find yourself living in a medieval type of society; only the "privileged" class will be allowed weapons. This is the perfect example of how some stick cultures came about. In the 1580 invasion of Ireland, the English were very totolitarian. By 1600, less tha 10% of Ireland was in Irish hands, the rest under harsh English landlords. Laws were passed prohibiting Irish Catholics from owning/possesing any weapons such as firearms or swords. The humble blackthorn stick was catapulted into use as a main weapon, with techniques and training passed from father to son. The blackthorn stick was the weapon of the common Irishmen. It was as ubiquitous as the walking staff of certain monks in asia. Think master PO.
When I was in the army, back about the time we moved from muskets to breechloders, we has an intersting class on makeshift weapons for pow's. It revolved around sticks. A towel rack torn off a wall, tree branch from the fire wood pile, a mop or broom handle broken off.
No matter how strict a socialist society can get, they can'r outlaw brooms, mops, shovels, rakes, hoe's, sledge hammers....
Some formal stick training from a good dojo, and a simple walking stick, is something that they can never outlaw. And the knowwledge is in your head forever, and the stick can even go right on an airplane with you. My blackthorn always flies with me.
Think about the stick.
All that being said, look at the travelers on roads in the ancient days, they were not all old farts hat needed a staff to lean on. And if you have to go through the valley of the shadow, "thy rod abd thy staff will comfort me". A rod is a short staff about as high as your lowest rib. The short length makes it a bit more handy in tight places. Alleys, markets, crowds. In the mideast today, you still see middle age men carrying a short rod lenth stick.
If guns were banned, you'll find yourself living in a medieval type of society; only the "privileged" class will be allowed weapons. This is the perfect example of how some stick cultures came about. In the 1580 invasion of Ireland, the English were very totolitarian. By 1600, less tha 10% of Ireland was in Irish hands, the rest under harsh English landlords. Laws were passed prohibiting Irish Catholics from owning/possesing any weapons such as firearms or swords. The humble blackthorn stick was catapulted into use as a main weapon, with techniques and training passed from father to son. The blackthorn stick was the weapon of the common Irishmen. It was as ubiquitous as the walking staff of certain monks in asia. Think master PO.
When I was in the army, back about the time we moved from muskets to breechloders, we has an intersting class on makeshift weapons for pow's. It revolved around sticks. A towel rack torn off a wall, tree branch from the fire wood pile, a mop or broom handle broken off.
No matter how strict a socialist society can get, they can'r outlaw brooms, mops, shovels, rakes, hoe's, sledge hammers....
Some formal stick training from a good dojo, and a simple walking stick, is something that they can never outlaw. And the knowwledge is in your head forever, and the stick can even go right on an airplane with you. My blackthorn always flies with me.
Think about the stick.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Think Stick.
Then think sharp pointy stick
Then think stick training
Think Simple and basic stuff, a bar of soap or a rock in a sock, a frying pan, rolling pin, chair leg, lamp, belt with a rodeo buckle( my personal favorite), flash light. you get the idea.
But first before it gets to weapons, use your brain and think layered defense, harden and alarm the abode, good visability all around, and situational awareness, have a plan, then think about the old axiom, a good plan can always be better, and the outcome bears no resmblance to the plan once the stuff hits the blades
Then think sharp pointy stick
Then think stick training
Think Simple and basic stuff, a bar of soap or a rock in a sock, a frying pan, rolling pin, chair leg, lamp, belt with a rodeo buckle( my personal favorite), flash light. you get the idea.
But first before it gets to weapons, use your brain and think layered defense, harden and alarm the abode, good visability all around, and situational awareness, have a plan, then think about the old axiom, a good plan can always be better, and the outcome bears no resmblance to the plan once the stuff hits the blades
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Deus Machina
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If you can still carry a weapon, just not a gun, a sword would be great.
For around town, like other said, a stick of some sort.
Or, there's the middle ground--the mace. The modern baseball bat would be a good trade. There's a reason this type was the preferred weapon in the crusade.
"Here's a sword, now we're going to spend the next six months training you with it."
"Here's a flail, now we're going to spend three weeks training you to swing it over shields and not harm yourself with it."
"Here's a mace. Go hit someone."
For around town, like other said, a stick of some sort.
Or, there's the middle ground--the mace. The modern baseball bat would be a good trade. There's a reason this type was the preferred weapon in the crusade.
"Here's a sword, now we're going to spend the next six months training you with it."
"Here's a flail, now we're going to spend three weeks training you to swing it over shields and not harm yourself with it."
"Here's a mace. Go hit someone."
Carl Levitian
member
"Here's a sword, now we're going to spend the next six months training you with it."
"Here's a flail, now we're going to spend three weeks training you to swing it over shields and not harm yourself with it."
"Here's a mace. Go hit someone."
Deus, I love that!
What's even more cool, is that it's probably true!
"Here's a flail, now we're going to spend three weeks training you to swing it over shields and not harm yourself with it."
"Here's a mace. Go hit someone."
Deus, I love that!
What's even more cool, is that it's probably true!
Thruhike98
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Carl Levitian: I've read with great interest/awe/humor your post about your blackthorn and the pitbull. (I hope your dog is no worse for wear.) I've long been a big fan of a good stick, and it became a natural appendage during long-distance hiking. My 5' one for hiking is too much in town. What length are these sticks from Irish history, and those you tote today?
dagger dog
Member
For every day carry but I don't think you could conceal it,a quarterstaff or the oriental bo, backed up with a a short sword or dirk, and for long range work, slung over your back a quiver full of 30" broadhead arrows and a long bow.
Home defense would be some dogs of war perhaps a couple Irish wolf hounds one of each sex or possibly mastiffs, and a flock of geese for watch dogs, plus a locker full of bolts and a couple cross bows, not heavy enough to require a device for cocking but rather something that would be easy for multiple shots , some caltrops, and a few pungi pits placed strategically about the grounds in a pattern known only to the family. You get the idea!
Home defense would be some dogs of war perhaps a couple Irish wolf hounds one of each sex or possibly mastiffs, and a flock of geese for watch dogs, plus a locker full of bolts and a couple cross bows, not heavy enough to require a device for cocking but rather something that would be easy for multiple shots , some caltrops, and a few pungi pits placed strategically about the grounds in a pattern known only to the family. You get the idea!
Carl Levitian
member
Hey Thruhike, My blackthorn sticks are cut to me.
To figure out your own length, get a second person to help you. Put your walking stick handle down on the floor right next to your foot by your ankle. Now stand strait up, no slouching, and let your arms hang naturally down by your sides. Wear the shoes you will wear 90% of the time. If you live in athletic shoes wear them. If you wear casual Rockports or western cowboy boots, do so. Have the second person mark with a pencil where the stick is by the inside crease in your wrist. Add a 1/4 inch for safty, and cut there. I always cut a bit long because if you use it a while and don't like it, you can always trim a little off.
So in a nutshell, the right length for you is from the ground to the inside of your wrist.
My woods hiking stick is a biblical rod. As in "Thy rod and thy staff will comfort me." This is the distance from the ground to your lowest rib. For me thats about 44 inches. A bit less than 4 feet. A 5 foot staff is just to unwieldly for my taste. I find the shorter stick is more manouverable in woods, thick brush, and faster to move than a long stick.
My other favorite lenght is the cut off shovel handle under the seat of my Tacoma. It's from the elbow to the tip of my fingers. Good for fast close work.
To figure out your own length, get a second person to help you. Put your walking stick handle down on the floor right next to your foot by your ankle. Now stand strait up, no slouching, and let your arms hang naturally down by your sides. Wear the shoes you will wear 90% of the time. If you live in athletic shoes wear them. If you wear casual Rockports or western cowboy boots, do so. Have the second person mark with a pencil where the stick is by the inside crease in your wrist. Add a 1/4 inch for safty, and cut there. I always cut a bit long because if you use it a while and don't like it, you can always trim a little off.
So in a nutshell, the right length for you is from the ground to the inside of your wrist.
My woods hiking stick is a biblical rod. As in "Thy rod and thy staff will comfort me." This is the distance from the ground to your lowest rib. For me thats about 44 inches. A bit less than 4 feet. A 5 foot staff is just to unwieldly for my taste. I find the shorter stick is more manouverable in woods, thick brush, and faster to move than a long stick.
My other favorite lenght is the cut off shovel handle under the seat of my Tacoma. It's from the elbow to the tip of my fingers. Good for fast close work.
Macmac
Member
This topic always makes me angery. If all guns are banned it won't be the USA anymore, and so I will still have my guns because I say so.
If they come and take my guns, they better come back every day for the one I made over night. Sooner or later someone would need to bring body bags.
(mods please don't lock this post. If you feel the need, remove my post, or tell me to and I will.)
If I am reduced to a stick, it will be tipped in 8" long obsidian. That is if they ban steel too. In NH USA the woods is full of steel from old and gone logging. The Govt will be very busy I guess.
If they come and take my guns, they better come back every day for the one I made over night. Sooner or later someone would need to bring body bags.
(mods please don't lock this post. If you feel the need, remove my post, or tell me to and I will.)
If I am reduced to a stick, it will be tipped in 8" long obsidian. That is if they ban steel too. In NH USA the woods is full of steel from old and gone logging. The Govt will be very busy I guess.
Thruhike98
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Thanks for the info Carl - good stuff! And... if I bump into a guy with a Tacoma who's reaching for a stick, I'll be sure to identify myself.
I'm beginning to see what you mean about five feet being too long. It's great for stream crossings, but for the rest of the time it's a little much.
I'm beginning to see what you mean about five feet being too long. It's great for stream crossings, but for the rest of the time it's a little much.
ReadyontheRight
Member
Carl L. - Any idea where a person could buy a nice piece of blackthorn to make a nice shillelagh?
To the original question -- I would arm myself with a partnership with my neighbors and we would probably have a heirarchy to respond quickly to threats. Kind of a neighborhood NATO. I believe they are also called "gangs".
Without guns we would quickly devolve to a feudal system. Most likely as subjects.
To the original question -- I would arm myself with a partnership with my neighbors and we would probably have a heirarchy to respond quickly to threats. Kind of a neighborhood NATO. I believe they are also called "gangs".
Without guns we would quickly devolve to a feudal system. Most likely as subjects.
Staffs and other shorter sticks are a good alternative because it is a lot easier to keep things non-lethal if need be, or if you want to switch to lethal you can do so easily. Not to mention, if you have to you can always sharpen an end of the staff and have a make shift spear to make switching to lethal attacks a lot easier.
Carl Levitian
member
Hey Thruhike, I just noticed you're near D.C. !
If ya want, we could meet up and I'll show you some of my sticks and short staves. If you want to pick up a good blackthorn, go over to Alexandria to a shop called the Irish Walk. It's right down near the river front in old town. They used to have a nice selection of rustic ones from County Kerry.
ReadyontheRight, I don't know your area much, try to find an irish shop in your neck of the woods.
Or;
Go out and find a low laying area of woods with a stream, and see if there is any hornbeam growing there. I've made rustic walking sticks by digging around the base of hormbeam sapplings to find one with a nive angled root knob. Theen I dig it up by the root. let it cure down the basement for several months, then trim off, buff with 0000 steel wool, and finish with Helmsman Spar Urathane. Hornbeam is everybit as tough as blackthorn.
If ya want, we could meet up and I'll show you some of my sticks and short staves. If you want to pick up a good blackthorn, go over to Alexandria to a shop called the Irish Walk. It's right down near the river front in old town. They used to have a nice selection of rustic ones from County Kerry.
ReadyontheRight, I don't know your area much, try to find an irish shop in your neck of the woods.
Or;
Go out and find a low laying area of woods with a stream, and see if there is any hornbeam growing there. I've made rustic walking sticks by digging around the base of hormbeam sapplings to find one with a nive angled root knob. Theen I dig it up by the root. let it cure down the basement for several months, then trim off, buff with 0000 steel wool, and finish with Helmsman Spar Urathane. Hornbeam is everybit as tough as blackthorn.
Thruhike98
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How'd you guess that Carl? I was intentionally vague - I didn't list which country's capital. I'd like to met up, say hi, and talk walking sticks. I'll look for Irish Walk next time I'm in Old Town.
You might be interested in these two links about wood strength. Dogwood does very well, but they are dying out due to a blight so I'm careful to only harvest deadfallen wood (unfortunately with the blight, this not a problem).
I'd like to met up, say hi, and talk walking sticks. I'll look for Irish Walk next time I'm in Old Town. You might be interested in these two links about wood strength. Dogwood does very well, but they are dying out due to a blight so I'm careful to only harvest deadfallen wood (unfortunately with the blight, this not a problem).
Yosemite Sam
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* For the home: baseball bat
* Out and about: Get good with a sling and rocks. Hey, it took out Goliath.
* What I currently do: I have a 26" steel telescopic baton (10" closed) that I [legally] conceal carry OWB pretty much all day, every day on my weak side about 9:00-10:00. It's concealed by sticking the bottom end in my left front pocket and the top end is covered by another layer of clothing. Hurts when I get in my car when it's tucked in -- jabs my side if I don't remember.
* Out and about: Get good with a sling and rocks. Hey, it took out Goliath.
* What I currently do: I have a 26" steel telescopic baton (10" closed) that I [legally] conceal carry OWB pretty much all day, every day on my weak side about 9:00-10:00. It's concealed by sticking the bottom end in my left front pocket and the top end is covered by another layer of clothing. Hurts when I get in my car when it's tucked in -- jabs my side if I don't remember.
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