Home Defense Weapons Choice Question: Both Non-Firearm and Firearm (with pics)

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Take a look at the first pic. The 6 weapons in the first pic represent 6 weapon categories:

1. Assegai / Short Spear
2. 1-handed sharpie/ouchie: short sword / long bayo / naval dirk / gladius / kuhkri / machete
3. Two-handed sharpie/ouchie: short sword / chisa katana, chinese war sword, etc.
4. Baseball bat / stick / basic club
5. Shotgun
6. Handgun

Now add to these 6 the following three catogories:

7. OC spray / mace
8. Taser (NOT stun gun)
9. Other NON-firearm weapon (specify)

Now, tell me YOUR choice A and choice B, among those 9 only (i.e. if limited to these 9 only), for home invaders, and tell me your spouse or "significant other's" choice A and choice B, please (which one you would tell or recommend your spouse or S.O. to use).**

Next, after answering that, in addition to those 9 choices, add the following three additional categories of long guns, as added in the second pic:

10. Pistol-caliber carbine
11. Rifle-caliber carbine
12. Other long gun (long rifle, machine gun, combo gun)(specify)(.50 BMG?)


Now, with these two added, tell me YOUR choice A and choice B among these 12, for home defense, and your spouse or S.O.'s choice A and choice B, please. Did your choices change or stay the same?

Is there a point to this exercise? No, not really, other than to satisfy my own curiosity.

**Edited: Note: As mentioned below, you can substitute sister/mother/children for spouse/S.O., and please do, in these questions. Anyone close to you who may want or need to protect themselves from a home invader, either in your home or in their own.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

For ME, among the first nine, my choices are A. #6 (handgun), then B. #5 (shotgun). For my S.O., I recommend she use A. #1 (assegai), then B. #7 (OC spray, in stream, not foam, for indoor use).

Among all 12 choices, my four options would not change at present; but #10 (pistol cal carbine) would be a good choice for the S.O. if I could get her to train on it. But in the form of a .45 Colt or .357 mag levergun, not the semi-auto shown there.

PM or post if you want more detail on what exactly we have here in these pics.

 

[Guillermo]

5, 6 and 11

When I go to bed there is a handgun or two, a shotgun and a rifle

The theory is that if I hear something that needs checking on, I carry the handgun.

If I believe that a threat is in the house I will use the 870 M&P 12 Gauge

If the car alarm goes off the AR15, since it has more reach, will be used.

 

[ATBackPackin]

For me, my #1 is a mossberg pistol grip pump shotgun. I like the fact that if I am awaken in the middle of the night and still groggy that I do not have to be super accurate. Also is there anything scarier then being in the dark and hearing a shell being racked into the chamber? Hopefully that is enough to make anyone in the house run. It also fits perfect in my backpack for when I hit the trail.

For now I guess my #2 would be my machete or anything else close to me I can swing. I am hoping after Christmas my #2 will be either a XDM .40 or M&P .40 with a light. Come on Santa, I've been a good boy..............well mostly.

My wifes #1 & #2 is to wake me and tell me she THINKS she heard something. When I come back to the bedroom and say it was nothing she always says," I guess I was dreaming". lol

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Thank you for your responses.....

Guillermo, the question asks you to pick two, not 3, and pick ONLY from among the first 9 initially (#11 is not a valid choice). THEN it asks you to pick among all 12. Could you please do that? Thanks. I'll assume you have no wife/S.O., and exempt you from that portion.

ATB, same thing, for you and your wife. So, 4 initial responses among the first 9 only (two you and two your wife). Then 4 more reponses among all 12 (if they are different). Thank you all in advance for reading and answering my questions!

 

[MrFox]

Is that spear pokey stick thing really a shovel handle? Did the rest of your shovel fall off?

Also, why the Enfield bayonet? I think you are missing the delivery system.

Wouldn't someone be better served with something less sharp and pokey and more boomy? I wouldn't like to see my little sister (16) attempt to go after someone with any type of blade.

If I had to pick, it'd be the pokey spear shovel. Only because I bet whoever you were going after with it would be all...is that a pokey shovel?

No but really. If I'm defending someone or myself from anyone breaking in, it must go boom. Pop pop is also allowed, but no whoosh or ching noises can be made.


The categories should be remade as: Boom, Pop pop, and Whoosh and ching.

 

[Guillermo]

guess I can't play the game.

What I grab has to do with what I anticipate the threat might be.

My current wife really likes her 686 and would be cowering behind the bed with my favorite daughter. FD would either have her Model 19 or whatever longarm I left. It would be a BAD room to storm...trust me

 

[ATBackPackin]

Somebody should invent a murphy bed, but not one the fold into the wall but yet folds sideways with a with a 1/4" metal plated bottom to use a "bedroom bunker".

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Mr. Fox, thank you for your questions and comments:

Is that spear pokey stick thing really a shovel handle?

Yes.

Did the rest of your shovel fall off?

No. I bought the shovel handle specifically for the "shovelassegai" creation. It's much better than with the broomstick that came with the spear head, for a variety of reasons. PM or post if you want more detail on this.

Also, why the Enfield bayonet?

Because it's a good effective weapon.

I think you are missing the delivery system.

Ever try to manhandle a No. 1, Mk 3 in close quarters such as a bedroom, let alone that monstrosity PLUS a long bayo? Fuggedaboutit. Missing nothing. Hand is the delivery system. Have you heard of a sword before? Don't get me wrong; it's better than nothing and certainly could be an effective poker, particularly from solely a "stand-your-ground-and-dial-911" defensive standpoint.

But WHY would you use that (SMLE + 1907 bayo) when (a) if you're going to use a firearm, you could use a shorter, lighter one with more firepower than SMLE, which itself could also have it's own bayo (e.g. an AR15 with bayo), (b) the non-firearm choices are generally for the weaker and lesser-trained among us, and yes I generally mean women, and the last thing a weaker woman needs is a monstrosity like an Enfield with long bayo - nevermind the extreme length/unwieldiness of it - just think of the weight alone - makes is less than ideal, and (c) if you're going to rely solely on a contact weapon (non-firearm), man or woman, you'd be much better served with a dedicated spear type weapon, such as the pictured "shovelassegai" - or a sword or other choice.

Wouldn't someone be better served with something less sharp and pokey and more boomy?

Do you mean, like the two boomy thing choices asked of you in the first question set, and shown in the first pic, and the 5 boomy things choices asked of you to pick among in the second question set, and shown in the second pic?

I wouldn't like to see my little sister (16) attempt to go after someone with any type of blade.

How come? Is she well-trained on guns, or not? That's why I'm asking. My girlfriend isn't well-trained on guns (but she IS strong and robust), so she stands a much better chance of imparting enough damage to repel an attack with a spear than with a gun, given the natural/inherent instinct man/woman has to use hand contact weapons.

You (and others) may substitute (and please do) your sister or mother, for your wife/S.O. So what's your A and B choice for your sister, among the first 9 only? And what's your A and B choice for your sister, among all 12? And while you're at it, since you chimed into the thread, please go ahead and answer each question asked for yourself, too.

If I had to pick, it'd be the pokey spear shovel.

How come? Why would you pick that over the guns for yourself? The shovelassegai IS my first non-firearm choice, but it's certainly not my first choice among those given.

Only because I bet whoever you were going after with it would be all...is that a pokey shovel?

That would be funny for him, for a moment, I guess - I'd hope they'd waste time running their mouth, while the shovelassegai perforated their heart & lungs.

No but really. If I'm defending someone or myself from anyone breaking in, it must go boom. Pop pop is also allowed, but no whoosh or ching noises can be made.

Then your answer above makes no sense. Did you read the question?

The categories should be remade as: Boom, Pop pop, and Whoosh and ching.

Feel free to make your own superior thread and poll with your superior remade categories. Until then, please answer my questions if you wish to participate. Thank you kindly.


Guillermo:

guess I can't play the game.

You CAN play. (And I'd like for you to). You just chose not to play by the rules, for some reason.

What I grab has to do with what I anticipate the threat might be.

Very good; thank you. Under which conditions would you prefer which weapons, and why? Which for yourself, and which for the less trained members in your family, and why?

My current wife really likes her 686 and would be cowering behind the bed with my favorite daughter. FD would either have her Model 19 or whatever longarm I left. It would be a BAD room to storm...trust me .

Sounds good. What's an "FD".


Isn't my post #1 presented in a latter-grade-school reading comprehension level, or am I missing something here? Really, folks.....



Now if I am able to get at least ONE person to actually answer the question set asked (heaven help us), then I'm going to ask a follow up to them:

-Would your answers (for you and spouse/SO) change or stay the same if you KNEW that your home invader and potential attacker was UNARMED, other than his fists/boots, etc., and why?

 

[Guillermo]

guy I used to work for, a real bastard, had a large walk in closet with a 30 inch tall bookcase-shaped box filled with playground sand. He had some old encyclopedias on top with a gap in them. Behind it he had a telephone and a Glock 40 Caliber with extra mags and a stool.

His theory was that he could stay comfortably behind the box with his gun in the gap and if you went in there he could shoot you before you would spot him in the gap in the books. He was probably right.

 

[Cosmoline]

A--Shotgun
B--Shotgun
C--Either carbine

Not much of a question there, but if you take out the firearms from the first category I'd go with this:

2. 1-handed sharpie/ouchie: short sword / long bayo / naval dirk / gladius / kuhkri / machete

Assuming you are facing an intruder who's threatening deadly force, the only proper response is to stop him as quickly as possible. The club or other bashing weapon requires too much wind-up esp. indoors and may not do the trick. A proper sword will work, and needs no windup.

When broadened to firearms, I have no particular preference between a pistol or rifle caliber carbine. Either will work fine if loaded with the proper bullets and chambered for a sufficient centerfire cartridge.

 

[Guillermo]

choice among the first 9 are shotgun (you said "home invaders") and then handgun.

current wife would reverse the order

rifle that shoots rifle ammo would be 3rd in line if I I answered the first question well enough to be allowed that choice

(I do not own any pistol cartridge rifles and with the exception of 44 mag do not really want any)

 

[Guillermo]

FD is favorite daughter as referenced earlier in the post

 

[Dr.Rob]

Shotgun, handgun (why go hand to hand when you don't have to?) The shotgun is also a club. A handgun is a club if it's empty. A knife is a weapon of last resort, even if it's mounted on a rifle.

I like knives but a simple to operate 'point it and pull the trigger' revolver is about as simple as 'martia'l arts gets for the untrained. I'd prefer a .22 LR cal rifle that the defender knows how to use than any pointed stick, club, knife or axe.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Guillermo, thank you!

Obviously, the MAIN reason for the addition of the non-firearm weapons in the choice is to see if you're like me: that you believe your spouse/S.O./daughter/mother will fare better with a contact weapon or OC spray if her life depended upon it, than with a gun, based on that person's level of training. But for some reason, it seems people don't want to answer that second half of the question set (the wife/SO/sister/mother part). Guillermo is the only one who answered these.

Obviously, for 99% of responders on THIS forum, for the first part of the questions (yourself), the answer will be one type of gun or another. The question is really only interesting if you answer the part about your wife/S.O./sister/mother, as asked.

 

[Guillermo]

Which for yourself, and which for the less trained members in your family, and why?

I live with two females. Both excellent shots with a hand gun.

My favorite daughter recieved a Smith 19 for her 15th birthday. Current wife loves her 7 shot 686. Neither one love the shotgun but both love the AR.

One day I called my house from out of town. I did so because the next door neighbor had called me to ask if I could use my key to let someone in to their back yard to look at a kayak they had for sale. I obviously could not and wanted to alert FD that someone might be lurking about.

FD answered in a very calm voice "interesting timing of your call. Some people are in the yard and have rang the doorbell 3 times. I turned on the radio so the house will sound occupied and made sure the shotgun has a round in the chamber. I have the cell phone in my pocket so that I can call 911 if I have to shoot someone. Then, of course I would call you"

Busting into my house if occupied is a fools errand.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Busting into my house if occupied is a fools errand.

Hee hee, glad to hear it!

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

P.S. One of the reasons for the dichotomy in adding the carbines to the mix, after the initial question set is, although I don't deem these as generally ideal for home defense for most "gun people" (though certainly far from being a *bad* choice), a long gun that is not a shotgun CAN BE more controllable and thus sometimes preferable for a lesser-trained person in the household, than a handgun or shotgun. Just depends on the level of familiarity and training, and personality/will to use the weapon, that the person has. So I wanted to see if anyone would change to pick these for spouse/S.O. if added as an alternative, but NOT for themselves when added.

For example, perhaps you'd pick shotgun and handgun for yourself, and handgun and OC spray, or baseball bat and OC spray for spouse. When expanded to add long guns, perhaps some would stay with shotgun and handgun for themselves, but switch to pistol cal or rifle cal carbine for the spouse/S.O. (and OC spray).

 

[Dr.Rob]

Honestly I still belive the best 'unarmed' defense a person can have is a good sized dog. A dog can defend his turf when you aren't home, and may just buy you a few moments to get to a weapon, phone or means of escape.

Like it or not, most of the women I know just aren't 'interested' in 'training' that goes for girl friends, mothers, grandmas and sisters in law. But many of them are open to the idea of a good sized dog. Teaching your significant other in the basic use of a .22 rifle or .38 revolver is also easier than instructing them in the use of kenjitsu or batting practice.

As soon as firearms became available that well trained knights started losing fights. You or I might make fine and effective use of a hatchet or bo stick or kuhkri or whatever bit of martial curiosa we all have laying around. Fact is peasants used what they had AT HAND. Frying pans, rolling pins, kitchen knives or a flower vase might be handier than ANY of those choices listed above in a real life situation.

Forget who said it but it rings true: YOU are the weapon, the world is your toolbox.

 

[Sam1911]

TO answer the question straight up at least at first, I would definitely go to the shotgun first and then the handgun. I am more technically proficient with the handguns, as I practice far more often with them, but I'm quite confident in my abilities with the shotgun -- and I understand the limitations of handgun rounds, in the best of cases. Making up some numbers just for illustrative purposes, I can make hits 10% faster with a handgun, but I know that a load of 00 Buck or a slug is 100% more effective than the handgun round would be. (I have NO over-penetration concerns.)

(For what it's worth, I also have tested and FULLY proven to myself how useless a pistol-grip-only shotgun really is. I understand that defensive fire with a shotgun MUST be accurate to stand any chance of success -- the "wall of lead" myth must DIE. And I understand that the "sound of the shotgun racking" tall tale was written by the Bros. Grimm right after they finished the story about the Easter Bunny and Elvis being abducted by aliens. How many sacred cows did I puncture, there? )

Melee weapons are right out, for me. I don't have training and I count my chances of disabling an attacker with any of the above fall to near about 50/50.

For my wife, as much as I hate to think of her in that situation, I'd make the same choices. No hand-to-hand weapon is easy to use in a violent manner. ALL require some degree of physical domination of the opponent (either by strength or speed -- and/or learned skill) to use. I don't have that training. My wife certainly does not have that training.

I don't fancy my wife's chances of defending herself with a firearm. She's certainly shot, and shot well, but like most shooters, she's never taken the time to practice realistically, nor with the goal of preserving her life or those of our children.

HOWEVER, IF she manages to land a load of buckshot into an attacker from 3 yds away as he's breaking through the door, that is going to do some damage. Put a sword, or a baseball bat, or a pointy shovel thing (cool as that is) in her hands, give her the best shot she's likely to be able to deliver, and I don't fancy her chances of incapacitating an attacker. And she'd only ever get one shot at him. Swinging a sword at a charging man is likely to produce only superficial wounds -- because she has no training in making a killing wound with it. In the next split second, the attacker would be inside her meager defenses and it would all be over.

This all goes back to the primary reason that firearms are such an equalizer. The effectiveness of the wound she could produce, firing down the hall with a 12 ga. is NOT dependent on her size, strength, or skill (beyond her ability to simply make the hit). A melee weapon is COMPLETELY dependent on those things, and, thus can only give MORE advantage to the stronger combatant.

-Sam

 

[The Highlander]

@Guillermo- Do you have a second favorite daughter?

 

[bikerdoc]

Hear rottweiller bark.
Grab shot gun and flashlight
Wife grabs 38
Go police up mess dog made of BG

 

[Guillermo]

@Guillermo- Do you have a second favorite daughter?

Nope, only one favorite daughter.

I point out to her that logic suggests that she is also my least favorite daughter.

She responds that I am her least favorite dad too.

BTW, I teach RADS, Rape and Aggression Defense Systems, an excellent women's self defense program. FD has been through it at least 4 times and my current wife is an instructor.

I am doing my part to prepare women not to be victims. And yes, I started at home.

http://www.rad-systems.com/

 

[hso]

Not the firearms part of THR.