Flying V
Member
If NFA were magically wiped away, I'd go up in bore size instead of up in ROF. I would feel well armed with something like Bowen's 577 Redhawk.
If you could (carry full-auto) ...
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Jeff Cooper's Commentaries
Vol. 1, No. 1 June 1993
"I suppose nothing can be done about the erroneous assumption that hand held fully automatic fire is somehow more efficient than aimed fire. As I used to demonstrate, when I had a teaching job, quick semi-automatic fire is far more likely to produce results than bursts. Thus the preoccupation of the Feds with the idea that is it somehow an offense against God and man to convert a semi-automatic weapon to a fully automatic capacity is simply a manifestation of ignorance. If a man is shooting at me, I would much prefer that he were on full auto than carefully holding and squeezing. The automatic option is the greatest encourager of the spray-and-pray technique, which I have long done my best to discourage."
-Jeff Cooper
Vol. 1, No. 1 June 1993
"I suppose nothing can be done about the erroneous assumption that hand held fully automatic fire is somehow more efficient than aimed fire. As I used to demonstrate, when I had a teaching job, quick semi-automatic fire is far more likely to produce results than bursts. Thus the preoccupation of the Feds with the idea that is it somehow an offense against God and man to convert a semi-automatic weapon to a fully automatic capacity is simply a manifestation of ignorance. If a man is shooting at me, I would much prefer that he were on full auto than carefully holding and squeezing. The automatic option is the greatest encourager of the spray-and-pray technique, which I have long done my best to discourage."
-Jeff Cooper
Full auto pistols like the Glock 18 are great range toys. Quite cool. But not terribly useful for defensive purposes, IMHO. A carbine, on the other hand, whether pistol caliber or .223, is an entirely different matter altogether. Carbines are much easier to hit with than a pistol. .223 caliber carbines have much more stopping power than pistols and apparently don't have anymore overpenetration issues than pistols (when used with the proper ammo).
Of course, I can't carry an AR15. Too big to be concealed, the sheeple would get frightened if I walked into the store with on slung over my back, and here in MA, it is actually illegal to do so.
Of course, I can't carry an AR15. Too big to be concealed, the sheeple would get frightened if I walked into the store with on slung over my back, and here in MA, it is actually illegal to do so.
DonP
Member
Fantasyland?
Sure, there are very few scenarios where anyone would really need that level of firepower and concealability, outside of the Secret Service of course. Or someone that had to drive through a really bad neighborhood where drive-by's and carjackings were a common occurence and where the folks on the street had comparable auto or semi-auto firepower. But other than those situations ...
But ... as long as we're in the right Fantasyland mode.
Probably a VZ-61 (.32 cal.) or VZ-63 (.380 cal.) Skorpion or maybe a H&K MP7 in 9 mm with the wet supressor option. After all, no sense in waking up the neighbors just to take care of an unruly possum late at night, right?
Don P.
Sure, there are very few scenarios where anyone would really need that level of firepower and concealability, outside of the Secret Service of course. Or someone that had to drive through a really bad neighborhood where drive-by's and carjackings were a common occurence and where the folks on the street had comparable auto or semi-auto firepower. But other than those situations ...
But ... as long as we're in the right Fantasyland mode.
Probably a VZ-61 (.32 cal.) or VZ-63 (.380 cal.) Skorpion or maybe a H&K MP7 in 9 mm with the wet supressor option. After all, no sense in waking up the neighbors just to take care of an unruly possum late at night, right?
Don P.
NewShooter78
Member
A big no for CCW, but I wouldn't mind having a select fire MP5 in the trunk, supressor optional of course. But for SHTF, I wouldn't mind having an AR15 with a grenade launcher on it. I think the grenade lauching ability and aimed fire would be preferable to full auto spray and pray.
Jason Demond
Member
I would take the Glock 18 for the cool factor. I have seen one work up close, and it was sweet!
Yeah. If its hard to control, it's a big detriment. If it isn't select fire, that would be a bummer. I realize what everyone is saying, but it's all about how you employ the weapon. jsalcedo said
That's the thing, it's the bursts. People (with big grins, mind you) frequently squeeeeeeeeeeze and don't let go of the trigger. Spray and pray. Well, I'm sure you guys know how to shoot full auto it's like preaching to the choir. I guess it's also about the platform. The G18 (even comped?) is probably at the very edge of controllability, but when you increase the size and weight of the platform and shrink the bullet you come back closer to the practical end of things. MP5 and the UMP are great lauching platforms for their respective bullet, IMO. Same with that FN PDW (can't remember the name) that happens to take the same ammo as the pistol... 5.7mm? Each round might not do very good, but a quick burst of 3 or so would probably be effective and relatively easy to control with practice.
Still, the tools we have now are fine for what we use them for. That's why I'm not in a rush to buy a full auto.
Cheers
Kobun
Member
If you tune a Glock trigger, polish a little here and some there, you might end up with what a friend of mine got:
A two shot burst trigger. One shot as trigger was pulled, and one as he released the trigger.
BA-BAM!
He got a new one and didn't polish that much on the next one.
Might bring that trigger for carry in some not-as-developed-countries.
A two shot burst trigger. One shot as trigger was pulled, and one as he released the trigger.
BA-BAM!
He got a new one and didn't polish that much on the next one.
Might bring that trigger for carry in some not-as-developed-countries.
DrDremel
Member
I'd carry my S&W 76. It is legal in Michigan with a CCW licence. It is rather large for all day wear though.
DonP- If you feel that it would work for you, go for it. Just carry the current Secret Service issue right into Evanston (or as my friends call it, E-Town ) and see what happens. Even if you could, would you want to try and shoot a BG armed with a knife whose back is say facing a major roadway or street with a Skorpion? I personally would be a little worried about collateral damage and Problem #2.
) and see what happens. Even if you could, would you want to try and shoot a BG armed with a knife whose back is say facing a major roadway or street with a Skorpion? I personally would be a little worried about collateral damage and Problem #2.Jeff OTMG
Member
In Texas a full auto is legal for concealed carry WITHOUT a permit. It falls into the same classification as rifles and shotguns. Here the permit is only for handguns.
Now is it a good idea? Probably not since you are liable for any damage caused by a bullet you send down range.
There would be a number of subgun's suitable for this. The Micro Uzi, H&K MP5K or PDW, Beretta M12, Ruger MP9, Skorpion, BXP, or Steyr TMP along with the machine pistols like the Glock 18, Beretta 93R, or H&K VP70M.
Now is it a good idea? Probably not since you are liable for any damage caused by a bullet you send down range.
There would be a number of subgun's suitable for this. The Micro Uzi, H&K MP5K or PDW, Beretta M12, Ruger MP9, Skorpion, BXP, or Steyr TMP along with the machine pistols like the Glock 18, Beretta 93R, or H&K VP70M.
Kahr carrier
Member
Glock 18 for fantasy land. Glock 21 real world -controlled and aimed fire.
I wouldn't on a serious regular basis, but I've been knows to carry oddguns on a lark before - just because I could...
So make mine a pair of Uzi machine pistols hanging from shoulder straps inside my Tuxedo. Make it in .40 S&W and we'll have a winner. Dreamworld, right?
So make mine a pair of Uzi machine pistols hanging from shoulder straps inside my Tuxedo. Make it in .40 S&W and we'll have a winner. Dreamworld, right?
Shot one of those at S&W Academy a while back. Interesting gun. Trigger was a bit heavy, IIRC.
It's my understanding that in Maine with a CCW you can carry anything you want, including full-auto. HK PDW might be a bit more practical for concealed carry than the S&W 76 though
TheeBadOne
Member
Actual use
In truth there isn't much use for full-auto for SD. All full-auto does is give you an empty gun fast and unaccounted for rounds down range. Granted, it's a blast to shoot, but other than that not much use. Soldiers carry large amounts of ammo slung all over their body and have need for suppressive fire. SD use has neither. The good old AR-15/M-16 is a good example. Put targets out at 15 yrds, 50 yrs, 75 yrs, and 100 yrds. Engage them quickly with full-auto, then semi-auto. You'll quickly see which is more effective. I'm not saying whether someone should be able to own one or not. If it's a SHTF scenario I'd take one, but then again I'd have all that ammo and not be worried about round accountability.
In truth there isn't much use for full-auto for SD. All full-auto does is give you an empty gun fast and unaccounted for rounds down range. Granted, it's a blast to shoot, but other than that not much use. Soldiers carry large amounts of ammo slung all over their body and have need for suppressive fire. SD use has neither. The good old AR-15/M-16 is a good example. Put targets out at 15 yrds, 50 yrs, 75 yrs, and 100 yrds. Engage them quickly with full-auto, then semi-auto. You'll quickly see which is more effective. I'm not saying whether someone should be able to own one or not. If it's a SHTF scenario I'd take one, but then again I'd have all that ammo and not be worried about round accountability.
MarineTech
Member
Considering I'd want to keep things small, light, and concealable, I'd have to take one of these:
Ruger MP9
HK PDW
Sites Spectre
Steyr TMP
Mini-Uzi
Ruger MP9
HK PDW
Sites Spectre
Steyr TMP
Mini-Uzi
Blackjack_21
Member
I'd skip the full-auto noise and pick a Beretta M93R. They're set for semi or three-round burst, and that's plenty. You've got ten bursts before the mag goes empty, and if you can't get the job done with that, you should really go back and reconsider your training regimen.
A select fire MP5K SD.
The perfect car gun.
Pulling that from the seat next to you means...
More powerful than a 1911.
Able to shoot more crooks than a Glock 17.
And its an H&K!
Super quick 'double-taps'!
Super quick 'triple-taps'!
And it wont hurt your ears.
Regards,
HS/LD
The perfect car gun.
Pulling that from the seat next to you means...
More powerful than a 1911.
Able to shoot more crooks than a Glock 17.
And its an H&K!
Super quick 'double-taps'!
Super quick 'triple-taps'!
And it wont hurt your ears.
Regards,
HS/LD
Joe Demko
Member
I don't think so.
blades67
Member
HK MP5K-PDW or the new HK PDW would be my first choices.
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