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If you could choose a budget target rifle?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Sappyg2.0, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Sappyg2.0

    Sappyg2.0 Member

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    Not enough space for the thread title. Sorry. Plus, I'm not interested in a pole so bare with me.

    Savage axis in heavey barrel 6.5 creedmore or 308 at 4 bills, ruger American 6.5 for 80 bucks more. A 308 is right there in price with the savage but, no heavey barrel, or a Remington heavey barrel ADL (308 or 223) for somewhere in between. What would you pick? Why?

    This is purely for poking holes in paper at 300 yards plus or minus.. SD and down range energy dont matter so much here. Bullet selection is a plus but not an end all solution. Cheaper ammo is preferred. Reloading is not an issue. We can talk about scopes later.

    1 moa or less is minimally acceptable and less is more. I like all three rifles for different reasons. Americans have proved accurate but I'm not a fan of the rotary mag. Savage seems to shoot most anything farely well but the bolt is heavey. Mags are expensive , if you can find them. The ADL checks most of the boxes for me but... the one I have in 30/06 isn't as accurate as I would like and there is Remington's reputation to consider. I do like the 26" barrel though. Please consider we are only talking about new... off the shelf budget guns.

    What do you think? Off the shelf which would you pick?
     
  2. IndianaBoy

    IndianaBoy Member

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    300 yards or less and no energy requirements?
    223 all day long for ammo cost and low recoil.
     
  3. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    id have to agree inianaboy a 223 or or close in price maybe the best if just shooting paper. if u need bigger id go with the ruger in 308. i love the older Remingtons but don't think id buy one now. id pick up a used 700 we just sold a older adl in 22-250 for 300 at the shop.
     
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  4. VoodooMountain

    VoodooMountain Member

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    Of the 3 I would choose the american. (Specifically the predator fast twist 22-250 or a fast twist 223) Better bedding system in my opinion.
    The remington might shoot bug holes or barely group 3moa.

    And, just me, I just dont like the axis.

    I want to suggest a savage 10/11/12 series.
    I bought a hog hunter (11 series) for around 300 used and a new one for under 400. 20" heavy threaded barrel.

    The cabelas 12 series is usually under 400.
    26" heavy non-threaded barrel.

    Even Richard's sporting goods has a model 12 variant though that would be the last place I would shop.

    Barrel changes are very simple on a savage which is great for target work. Bolt handle and head can be replaced in minutes should you choose as well. Bigger bolt handle helps with the stiff upward bolt movement you don't like.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  5. Legionnaire
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    Another vote for .223. I like the 6.5 and .308, but they are more spendy and don't really buy you anything over the .223 at 300 yards.

    Among the rifles listed, I'd go with the Ruger American Predator, and after shooting it a while, I'd replace the stock. Personally, I wouldn't buy new. I'd look for 1970-90 Remington 700. But that's just me.
     
  6. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    I would get a ruger american predator and leave it alone or wait till cabelas has savage 12fv’s on sale and put it in a Boyd’s stock.
     
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  7. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    Ruger makes the American Predator in 308 and 6.5 CM that now take Accuracy International magazines. They come with a 3 round mag, but 5 and 10 round mags are available through Ruger at the same price as the 4 round rotary mags. The newer style rifles are the same price as the ones with rotary mags.

    They also make a 223 version that takes AR magazines.

    https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/26944.html
    https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/26973.html
    https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/26974.html

    For what you want to do 223 is just fine.

    If you ever want to shoot farther, or hunt big game the 6.5 CM is the way to go. Nothing wrong with 308. Out to about 500 yards the the only real advantage 6.5 has over 308 is less recoil. But the 308 has no edge either, the end result with either will be exactly the same. But beyond 500 yards the 6.5 pulls away and continues to be an effective target round out to over a mile. The 308 starts to run out of gas at 800-900 yards.

    I have 2, actually 3 Predators. I initially bought them in 308 and 6.5 CM with rotary mags. When the AI mag version became available I bought a 308 to get that version and plan to sell the older one. Just haven't done so yet. I really like the AI style mags much better.
     
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  8. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    Nother vote for the American.
    I happen to really like them tho.

    The Remington might be a good gun, but I've just run across a few with issues that were pretty new rifles. They are back on my avoid list again.

    The savage is a solid rifle but I don't care for it.
     
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  9. BWS

    BWS Member

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    I lucked into a new takeoff varmint stock and barrel from a 223 ADL awhile back.

    So a month ago finally moved fwd and got a new ADL 223 but,with the sporter barrel...both are 12T. The V brrl is 26",the sporter is 24. It's now a switch brrl rig.Topped it with a Bushnell 3200 Elite 4-12x40.

    Bedded the action and a cpl other small improvements.... saving lunch money for a better trigger,will probably end up with the std Timney set around 2#'s.

    I could not be happier. Lucky to get a good one,ehhh... maybe? Don't care,it's a shooter.
     
  10. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    I've honestly never had any issues with remingtons being accurate. As long as the gun WORKS they are good rifles, and one of my favorites.
     
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  11. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    i never had a remington that did not shoot good but they kind scare me right now.
     
  12. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    Again I'm avoiding them, and I don't recommend them, but given a chance at a good deal especially if I can look the gun over closely I'd still buy one.
    The two I've had in hand recently had issues with chambering. One it looks like a reamer was dropped/slammed into the chamber and raised very concentric burs. It scratched the cases going in and locked them up tight coming out. The owner didn't want to send the gun in so i carefully polished the rear of the chamber to smooth the burrs out. Would have been better to set the barrel back and ream it but I don't have a lathe. The burrs are still there, but they don't grab the cases as bad....oh that gun failed to chamber a go guage which is what got me started on looking at the chamber.
    t
    The second one I'd swear the chamber was visibly lop sided, cases came out ovalish. Tho it still shot well, getting cases out was interesting.
    That one the owner agreed to send back. I haven't heard back on that one yet.
     
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  13. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    buds has some model sevens preds in 243 id like to get but don't have the money to lay down on a gamble. the Remington seam to start going down in quality in the early 2000s. my dad worked at a gun shop them and many rems had the bores of center and some the barrels were not strait to the action. there were other things not up to snuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  14. Legionnaire
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    This is why I recommended one from 1970-90, although I have had great success building on newer 700 actions.
     
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  15. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

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    Every older Remington I've ever shot was a shooter, but I wouldn't touch a new one without planning to rebuild it
    Can't stand how cheap the Axis feels, but any other Savage is good to go, and those 12fv models from cabelas are a heck of a deal.
    The ruger would get my vote. Not because I really like them, which I do, (like Savage more) but they skimped on the stuff they could without giving up anything in the accuracy dept. It is a great rifle, and If you're only looking at the axis from savage, the predator is my pick.
     
  16. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    I’d buy the 700 sps in 308 and slowly build it to what you want. There’s lots of the 20” on armslist some with lots of upgrades already.
    Trigger, stock, bolt handle, lap the lugs and such.

    Maybe an Athlon Argos for a budget target scope. I believe you can get most your money back if you upgrade if it’s not beat up.

    Depends if you want it to be affordable now with options to upgrade or you want it to always be affordable. Once you get good at 300 you’ll be bored and want more.
     
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  17. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I am happy with my Mossberg MVP in 223.
     
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  18. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    I agree with others that the 223 is hard to beat as an economical round for short range.
    Be careful about buying a budget target rifle. Odds are your not going to like the stock or trigger and end up buying aftermarket parts to make a cheap gun better.
    Getting a better gun to begin with may be best for the budget.
     
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  19. Bushpilot

    Bushpilot Member

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    If you're just shooting paper out to 300 yards I'd opt for the .223... I'd also stick with a heavy barrel for what you have in mind whichever brand you choose.

    I've shot very good groups with all three of the rifles that you mentioned in various .223, 243, 6.5 CM and 308 chamberings so I don't really think there is a bad choice here. My personal preference would be the Remington first and then the Ruger and the Axis last. You'll have more options with the Remington if you want to upgrade the stock or the trigger in the future...

    I currently own a 700V in .223 (my third 700V in 223) and a 700 SPS in 308 for just the kind of shooting that you have in mind and they are both great shooters..... I've shot many 100 yard groups in the 3/8 inch range with my 700V .223's after a little tweaking. Just keep in mind that if you opt for the .223 with the standard 1/12 rate of twist that your best accuracy is going to be with bullets in the 50 to 55 gr. range, maybe up to 62 if they are driven fast. This really isn't an issue for punching paper out to 300 yards as there isn't any need for using heavier bullets at this range. However, if you want to use heavier bullets then go with a rifle with the 1/9 ROT...
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  20. Mosin Bubba

    Mosin Bubba Member

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    I'm a big fan of the Savage 110s. Too heavy to carry as hunting rifles IMO, but those things are just lasers off a bench.
     
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  21. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    .223 for sure. If you just want to put holes in paper .223 will work even at ranges much longer than the 300 yards you're talking about.

    Do you have an AR-15 already? If so you could just buy a upper with a heavy free-float barrel to use with your current lower... just an idea...

    If you have your heart set on bolt action though, I like the Ruger but that's purely a matter of personal preference, your mileage may vary...
     
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  22. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Member

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    After reading the thread title, my initial thought was.....I would never buy a "budget target rifle". Target rifle implies accuracy......budget implies, don't want to spend the money.....can't see these two terms coming together.
     
  23. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    If someone gave me an Axis, I’d resell it and buy a 10/12 or 700. The Axis isn’t a bad rifle, but it’s lacking enough compared to these others, I would trade up.

    Off of the list provided, I would go 700 ADL, American, then Axis, again, noting I wouldn’t want an Axis at all. Any of the 3 should be just as accurate as the others, the Rem 700 ADL will feed the best out of the box, has the greatest aftermarket support for upgrades, and has the greatest gunsmith support in the market for service later in life. In the immediate future, which I would extend forward to be about a secure decade, customer service from Rem, Savage, or Ruger will likely be just as good across the board.

    For the cartridge, 300 yard paper punching screams 223remington to me. The ONLY downside to that choice is the bolt face, as you could convert to many other short action cartridges if you went with a .473” bolt face cartridge, but the 223rem limits your future options for all but the Savage 10/12. For most cartridges, you’ll be rebarreling within 4,000 rounds, so if you punch paper frequently, you might find yourself with the option to change cartridges if you started with something like 308win, 243win, 7-08, 6creed, or 6.5 creed. Your 223rem could really only go 6x45, 204 Ruger, 17rem, 17mach IV, or 300blk in the future - most of which don’t make nearly as much sense as the 223rem with which you started.

    I do almost all of my 0-300 target shooting with 22LR’s and 223rems.
     
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  24. Sappyg2.0

    Sappyg2.0 Member

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    I appreciate all of the knowledgable replies. Thank you.

    The savage I'm looking at is a 12fv. Cant find it in the savage catalog but that is the rifle listed on sale a cabelas and I cant find any specs on it other than it's a button barrel. It's only available in 6.5 and 308. Sooo... idk

    I have 2 Americans now. A compact in 223 and a ranch in 7.62x39. I like them a lot. Both do well at 300 yards. Especially the compact. The thing is... it's a compact. Regardless, it's a good rifle but no heavey barrel option is a downer.

    If I were to go with Remington cabelas has a 700v. Didnt see any in 223 and they are pushing over 7 bills before tax! That's a bit steep for a rifle of questionable character and low morals.

    Maybe it comes down to barrels? In your opinion, whose making the most reliably accurate barrels off the shelf.
     
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  25. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    The 12FV is a Cabelas exclusive model, such is why they have it listed and you don’t find it on Savage’s roster.

    “Low morals” is probably a bit untoward to say about Remington. Questionable quality at the price point is also probably not really a fair statement either. Any of the rifles you have listed have cut corners on finish quality compared to a $300 rifle of 20-30yrs ago, but recall, an inflated $300 back then is more than double that today. These rifles, effectively, are at a lower price point than was available back then - and more accurate to boot. The finishes and stocks are cheap - but such is true of any $300-350 rifle. It’s unfortunate that the holding company which owns Remington has been so spineless regarding our Second Amendment rights, but don’t forget how spineless Ruger was for many years when he wouldn’t produce a 10+ magazine, installed locks on single action revolvers, and magazine disconnects and LCI’s on his pistols... Savage has also traded hands more than a village bicycle, a couple times even in recent history (last few years even). S&W used to back anti-gun politicians... pick your company, there has likely been an era where their “morals” have been in question.

    None of the factory firearm manufacturers are making the most accurate barrels out there, so it’s kinda like asking who’s the prettiest of the ugly girls. Comparatively, if you bought 50 of each of your rifles listed, broke them into 10 groups of 5 rifles at random, you would not see the same order of accuracy in all 10 groups, and standing up on the average most accurate of the 150 rifles in your hands likely wouldn’t hold up if you bought another 150 and repeated. Any of the 3 will shoot very well. None will have high luster polish, none will have rock solid stocks, none will have great triggers, and none will have terrible. But all of them should shoot 3/4” groups at 100yrds.

    With any of them, a few years and a few thousand rounds will mean a new barrel, so you can pick any barrel profile you want at that time.
     
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