If you could eradicate feral hogs tomorrow...

[anothernewb]

how to deal with an "invasive species" can be a tough thing. Hear me out on this. Humans tend to think of things along a narrow window of time - we can't help it - we don't live that long - so we shape the world around us within our timeframes.

many of the species we have around us today are the result of "invasion' of one form or another. It's just that the time frame is usually a little less compressed. animals and plants migrate - that's a natural process that everyone accepts. Heck - humans were once the "invasive species" too.

That aside - we have the capacity today to introduce species int environments that are far removed from their origin, into areas that have been isolated for so long that the local ecology has no chance at all stopping a population explosion. and the rate of introduction of new species is probably at an all time high simply because of our mobility.

Does that mean it's okay for a new species to be put somewhere, and we shouldn't do anything about it? - not necessarily, in fact - not even close. There are plenty of examples of areas where we brought a new species with good intentions in mind- and it's pretty much blown up in our face.

But - I think another part of the perception is again - our own limited window into time. Nature is so pervasive that it absolutely refuses to let entire sections of creatures it's worked so hard to produce - die out easily. local plants and animals adapt and survive. Albeit in severely reduced capacities in the short term. Sometimes - yes they do die out. We wouldn't be here without that process either.

Sometimes there are benefits - The great lakes, and some of the areas near me are having issues with zebra mussels - and they surely do suck. Walleyes are suffering greatly - However - smallmouth bass populations have exploded in some infested waters. (and grilled smallie is absolutely delecious - and a damn sight more fun to catch) Lakes that also had problems with milfoil invasion are also seeing drasic reductions in that particuar invasive species in infested waters as well. Lakes that have milfoil in them have loss of some of the larger fish species - but panfish, bass, and bait fish populations are higher than ever in them.

okay that was really wordy an sort of rambled on. back to the feral hogs.

Initially I was with the side of controlling them - it's useful for a pro-hunting stance.

But when I learned you don't get bacon out of them? meh - wipe em out. A pig you can't make bacon from is like a cow that can't become a steak. It's an evolutionary dead end. Send them the way of the dodo.

 

[Jason_W]

True, species migrate on their own, species out-compete each other time, everything changes, everything dies. As is noted in the post above, we have managed to take processes that ordinarily took eons and make them occur in a human lifetime.

I guess we have to ask ourselves if we want to witness a United States where the only species of wildlife are feral hog, snakeheads, and Asian carp.

 

[anothernewb]

The Asian carp scares me. It's pretty much the fish equivalent of the hog. it freaking eats everything from the top of the food chain on down. although I wonder which one would win in a closed system against each other- snake head or the carp.

None of it is much good- and it's just too pervasive for harvest methods currently used to slow.

Now - I wonder how fast invasive populations would decline if, say instead of spending 50 billion helping out some flyspeck country in the middle of whatever crisis - we took that money and paid US citizens to harvest invasive species. Imagine getting paid to fish and hunt!!! Winning!

 

[Jason_W]

I wonder how fast invasive populations would decline if, say instead of spending 50 billion helping out some flyspeck country in the middle of whatever crisis - we took that money and paid US citizens to harvest invasive species. Imagine getting paid to fish and hunt!!! Winning!

Totally on board with that idea.

 

[Skoghund]

The boar have no problem dealing with an average winter here. 3-4 years ago we had 2 very hard long winters in a row. Lots of snow and down to -25c with weeks of-15c. These hard winters knock the boar population back a bit but the last few winters have been average and last winter very mild so the boar have made up any losses and some.
I'm busy for the next week but over the easter weekend one of these rascals is going in my freezer

 

[anothernewb]

This may be a dumb question - but are wild hogs smart enough to avoid the old snap type leg traps? all the night shots I see show bunches of them clustered around what I assume is a feeder of some kind. Couldn't a person put quite a dent in the population with a big ol spread of traps? or is the collateral wildlife damage too high

 

[anothernewb]

You know - looking at all these night cam shots makes me think video game stuff. why not rig up a gun or two to a night video camera, place a mark on the screen where the gun is permanently aimed - and rig up a remote trigger. watch the cam - when something crosses it- bang

 

[Skoghund]

Now what fun would that be when i can sit out in my hunting tower all night, freezing my bits off and trying to stay awake.

 

[AKElroy]

If you are the slightest bit aware of the economic and ecological damage being done,and can still express the sentiment that you don't want all feral pigs eradicated, you are telling us your selfish pleasure is more important than what is best for our country. That is unpatriotic.

Good grief. Unpatriotic? I am fully aware of the economic and ecological damage; that is why I am shooting every pig I see. Yours is one of several posts equating enjoying hunting them with wanting more of them. I'm not sure I've seen any responses wanting more of them.

I opened this thread to see if I am the only one out there that would be disappointed if there were no more to shoot. I admit it -- I would be disappointed. That DOES NOT MEAN I would not eradicate them all if I could. I would be happy to save the planet, and I would also be miserable having nothing fun to shoot at.

 

[Bexar]

There's apparently a pig virus going around killing baby domestic pigs. It would be interesting to know what would happen if this got into the feral/wild hog population. Also it might be interesting to see if feral/wild hogs brought it up from Mexico.

 

[Stony]

Anothernewb....you really can't realistically use leg traps on hogs, as they are non-selective in species and will end up with deer and all manner of critters. I know some guys that use snares with some success. You can set a snare in some area where deer couldn't get into them. Some guys set a snare just off the ground where it will snare one around the snout as they walk through them.
I have had pretty extensive experience with hogs, and they will never be eliminated through hunting. I trap and hunt them pretty much on a daily basis on a large parcel of land. I have killed 382 of them in just over 4 years on that property alone and I doubt there are fewer than when I started.
I read an interesting article recently by a biologist from the University of Texas that stated that "hogs aren't born pregnant...but it's close". They normally have their first litter around 13 month of age. He also stated that "they average between 5 to 6 per litter, out of which 8 survive".
Given these statistics, I can not imagine ever controlling the population through any recognized practices. I do hear of products being tested that will render them sterile, but will not effect the other wildlife eating it. We will just have to wait and see....and keep having fun with them in the meantime.

 

[TeaCoffee.Guy]

Thank you very much for your answers to my comments.

 

[anothernewb]

Anothernewb....you really can't realistically use leg traps on hogs, as they are non-selective in species and will end up with deer and all manner of critters. I know some guys that use snares with some success. You can set a snare in some area where deer couldn't get into them. Some guys set a snare just off the ground where it will snare one around the snout as they walk through them.
I have had pretty extensive experience with hogs, and they will never be eliminated through hunting. I trap and hunt them pretty much on a daily basis on a large parcel of land. I have killed 382 of them in just over 4 years on that property alone and I doubt there are fewer than when I started.
I read an interesting article recently by a biologist from the University of Texas that stated that "hogs aren't born pregnant...but it's close". They normally have their first litter around 13 month of age. He also stated that "they average between 5 to 6 per litter, out of which 8 survive".
Given these statistics, I can not imagine ever controlling the population through any recognized practices. I do hear of products being tested that will render them sterile, but will not effect the other wildlife eating it. We will just have to wait and see....and keep having fun with them in the meantime.

I figured it might be something along those lines. Too bad that the simple solution - isn't.

I'm still hoping to get in touch with the right people who are having issues with hogs so I can try my luck hunting one. I've looked at "hog hunt" camps and websites - but dang those prices are high. I'm not saying they're unwarranted - it is these peoples occupation - it's just out of my budget for a regular thing.

 

[AKElroy]

You and the four other guys who posted actual and implied support for sustaining the feral hog population for their own selfish pleasure ought to be ashamed of yourselves. I begrudge no one for enjoying shooting feral hogs, I would do it myself given the convenient opportunity, but to even imply you would prefer the feral hog population be sustained for personal enjoyment is reprehensible.

Find for me any instance where I have stated or implied any such thing. Even in the post of mine that you quoted, I stated plainly that I WOULD eradicate them if I could. I fence my feeders to keep them off of my corn, and they are trapped on our property aggressively. You are making baseless allegations. And no, with such short breeding cycles and broad food choices it is not possible to eradicate them as they have no natural impediments other than bullets, and they are adept enough to breed beyond the ability of hunters to contain them. Sounders wandering my property are no doubt being hunted from helicopters not two miles from my place. I have taken them by the hundreds. What efforts, other than your rant, have you engaged in to curtail their numbers? I'm on the front lines of this battle, my friend. Your comments are out of line.

What is true, however, and apparently what has you twisted up, is that I am really enjoying the fight.

 

[jmorris]

Yes, I would get rid of them. If I ever wanted them back just let a male and female pig out of their run and wait a few months.

I really wouldn't care if they were not so destructive. They can completely ruin a hay meadow overnight.

 

[anothernewb]

Well, let me open a whole can o worms on the "impossible to hunt out" aspect.
I completely disagree that we are unable to eliminate them. History is replete with examples of coordinated efforts by humans which have resulted in drastic decline and arguably complete eradication of entire species.

However - in each of those cases there was an economic factor involved. something about each critter was in high demand, and offered huge profit margins. beaver pelts, abalone shell, ivory, whale oil etc...

now - if we could somehow develop a market for feral hog derived products - and there was enough profit to be made on it, and zero hunting restrictions, (well perhaps a restriction that they must be harvested without damage to cohabitant species - ie, shot - no using leg traps) I suspect that we could decimate the population in no time. especially if there was some way to more highly prize the young ones.

too bad all the fashion designers are crazy vegan nutjobs. One high ender making some new clothes accessory out of wild hog pelts - you know something that uses 0.5% of the pig - and you need 3 or 4 to make them -

Then somehow find a market to hype up smoked wild pig as a super diet food - or start sending that stuff to all these starving countries in lieu of money - and boom. we'd have it made for life!

The other way would be for the govt to offer a bounty on them. like I stated earlier - why to we send billions overseas when that money would be much better served at home. They spend billions on welfare here, so why not a little payback to help us control invasive species. Instead of wasting time and money on a bureaucratic branch office - just send cash for each confirmed wild hog/snakehead/asian carp destroyed. what a business profit margin that would make!

 

[jrdolall]

As a member of the farming community I have never met a farmer that wanted wild pigs around. They are just too destructive in their eating habits. While deer may eat a lot of corn or soybeans they don't generally destroy the ground while doing so. I have seen carrot fields in south Georgia where a group of feral pigs cost a farmer several thousand dollars in one week. They literally started at one end of a row and rooted out all the carrots. Their rooting also makes it nearly impossible to harvest crops that are harvested by their tops(radishes and carrots for example) because the ground needs to be level in order for the harvesters to work properly. That farmer invited anyone with a gun to come sit by his fields and shoot any hog they saw. I know that several people took advantage of the offer but he got hurt again this year though I haven't been to visit.
Anyone remember the spinach problem, e-coli I believe, a few years ago? Feral pigs in California caused that and quite a few people died.

I appreciate the hunting aspect of the feral pig but the damage they cause far outweighs any value they bring to a farming operation. I know there are hunting ranches that have brought them in and the vast majority of those places lament that decision. I personally do NOT have any pigs on my farm but I know it's just a matter of time.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Find for me any instance where I have stated or implied any such thing. Even in the post of mine that you quoted, I stated plainly that I WOULD eradicate them if I could. I fence my feeders to keep them off of my corn, and they are trapped on our property aggressively. You are making baseless allegations. And no, with such short breeding cycles and broad food choices it is not possible to eradicate them as they have no natural impediments other than bullets, and they are adept enough to breed beyond the ability of hunters to contain them. Sounders wandering my property are no doubt being hunted from helicopters not two miles from my place. I have taken them by the hundreds. What efforts, other than your rant, have you engaged in to curtail their numbers? I'm on the front lines of this battle, my friend. Your comments are out of line.

What is true, however, and apparently what has you twisted up, is that I am really enjoying the fight.

“It's glorious.”

“Lord help me....I.....love them.”

Do you love cockroaches too because they are also easy to kill and very numerous? I have not shot a pig but if I did I would feel about as glorious as I do when I step on a cockroach. Want to have a “glorious” experience hunting: plan a deer hunt, study the terrain in advance, attempt to identify a specific buck in its habitat, on opening day stalk to within facial recognition range, an make a clean one shot quick kill.

“I know ranchers and landowners will likely disagree, but the topic may be fun to kick around. Would you eradicate tomorrow if you could?”

A fun topic to kick around? Other than you and a few others enjoying the opportunity to make an easy kill, I don’t think many other ranchers and landowners find any discussion points not supporting the eradication of feral hogs “glorious”. You are implying that there is a valid reason for not eradicating feral hogs.

“I'm not sure I've seen any responses wanting more of them.”

Really? Have you not been paying attention to the responses to your thread? Read post #25 “I'm a meat hunter so I want them to expand. I don't care about "trophy bucks".

“Maybe I am not making my position clear. I am NOT advocating for more pigs. In fact, I am doing everything I can to reduce their number. That said, I am enjoying harvesting them, and I would miss it greatly if they were ever actually conquered. In fact, I would probably move off the lease as it is not worth the money for two months of deer hunting if that were the only quarry.”

You are NOT doing “everything I can to reduce their numbers”. This is clearly indicated by your statements. You are PLAYING at killing them. If you were serious about eradicating them you would take the time to kill that other sow and piglets you mentioned in your first post. In fact, you would no tolerate any feral pig population on your property. I am sure if you really were interested in “doing everything I can to reduce their number”.

“Since the pigs have increased in number every year regardless of how heavily we hunt them, the point is mute. They are not going away until they destroy their own habitat, and the speed with which they are increasing their numbers is a concern. I'm not minimizing that fact. This thread is a theoretical discussion of how we balance the fun of hunting with the need to control this destructive force.”

This statement is true only if we as a country continue to address the problem by mild encouragement to guys like you to shoot them on sight. Do you have any idea how many land mammals have be hunted to or near extinction? How can you not believe that we as a society don’t have the means to reduce feral hop populations to near extinction? You don’t think organized hunting for extinction purposes, traps, poison bait, sterilization, etc. will work? Deer in the eastern United States were almost hunted to extinction. “Theoretical discussion of how we balance the fun of hunting with the need to control this destructive force”? Wrong attitude pal! We don’t need to control this destructive force to provide you fun. We need to nearly eliminate this destructive force to prevent local economic destruction of individuals property and national destruction of the habitat of game animals.

"What is true, however, and apparently what has you twisted up, is that I am really enjoying the fight."

You think because you have killed “hundreds” you are in a fight? I would begrudge no one for enjoying the eradication of feral hogs, but you are not doing that. You are PLAYING at shooting feral hogs. The only thing twisted is your sense of reality.

 

[Sam1911]

Enough arguing. Kill 'em all, love it or hate it, do nothing and let nature find a new balance...whatever. But we don't need to beat each other up any more over it.