If You Favor Second Amendment Rights, You Must Be Crazy

[joab]

Crazy is a matter of perception

Trying to get the administration of a university that prides itself on diversity to take your opinion on guns seriously by railing against what they consider to be examples of that diversity does not seem any more reasonable than trying to get Mike Tyson listen to your opinion on misogyny by challenging him to a fist fight

 

[ilbob]

They did not sound threatening to me at all. A little non-PC, but not threatening.

 

[rdhood]

The problem with this kid is that he expressed a disgruntled attitude towards the University diversity (and three students , in particular), in addition to his plea for 2nd Amendment rights.

"I am pleading for my 2nd Amendment rights, and to concealed carry. BTW, I am really P.O.'ed at the liberal attitude of this university and it's administration".

If I were an administrator, I would be concerned. The 2A appeal by itself is fine. A 2A appeal by a disgruntled student is suspicious.

 

[Justin]

I have on several of these forums, noticed that people who purport to be pro-gun do a bit of crawfishing when confronted with an uncomfortable situation like this letter. Keep in mind this is a young adult and if he sounds a bit threatening, it is his lack of finesse.

I have no problem whatsoever with students carrying concealed on any college campus. However, you have to realize that this is an exceptionally controversial topic among college faculty, students, and the general populace. If we're going to win this fight, the gun culture, especially those who are college students, absolutely must put their best foot forward. Our case must be presented as unambiguously and rationally as possible.

Scheffler absolutely fails to do this on all counts. His emails were rambling and incoherent, and even if you don't believe that his messages were indicative of an angry racist, it's patently obvious to anyone but the most ideologically blind that they could be interpreted as such.

There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of pro-rights college students who could easily and eloquently represent our side of the debate in the public sphere without coming off as half-baked lunatics. Scheffler needs to simply go away. He has neither the constitution nor mental ability to present our case in a reasonable fashion.

Still, when I see the mention of the possibility of a civil uprising to take our government back and so many get nervous and want to go on with things as they are, I know why we are in this situation. What do you fellas think the 2nd Ammendment was for? You cannot change what has happened by flapping jaws. There will have to be a civil war, and soon, or we have lost. The feds do not listen to us at all at this point. The fact is, we have probably already lost our country and no amount of talking is going to do any good anymore.

The federal government is only allowed by our Constitution to handle foriegn affars and interstate commerce. It is the commerce provision that they have used to take control of the country. The power structure layed out by the Constitution is the people, state, and then the feds. It is 180 degrees out of phase.

I know it is a scary thought, and I know we might have to sacrafice like our ancestors did, but what else can we do at this point? Think about it.

And perhaps you'd like to enlighten us.
Just exactly how many politicians have you shot?

 

[MakAttak]

Alright, many people have objected to this student because of his annoyance and his poor ability to express himself.

I teach college courses, at least he is coherent and close to the spellings. Truly our institutions of higher learning do not teach how to think and speak. (In this I mean thinking and speaking logically and coherently - they do tell you WHAT to think.)

Yes, the guy is not eloquent and is voicing frustrations that are not PC to recognize. However, I think many of the members may not realize just how bad it is within colleges. I am fortunate to have gone to a conservative college and even in grad school, a conservative, even libertarian, department (go economics). However, most institutions of higher learning DO rail against white men, have classes that spend all of class denouncing conservatives (when the class has nothing to do with politics, like "Art History"), and engage in racist practices. ANYTIME you make your decision based on race, this is a racist act. Simply because a minority race is involved or benefited does not make the act less racist. Obviously this student should be taught to better express himself, but he is voicing frustration with what is very likely an overtly racist institution.

 

[Justin]

They did not sound threatening to me at all. A little non-PC, but not threatening.

Put yourself in the position of a college administrator who's already freaked out by guns because of what happened at Columbine and Virginia Tech. Then re-read the letters with the understanding that as a college admin, you're in loco parentis for several thousand young adults.

 

[MakAttak]

Justin-

I should make a note here. We do not want this student representing our position. I can definitely agree with that.

However, HE IS NOT INSANE. That is patently obvious: he is frustrated and angry.

Should he be left to be adjudicated insane and his rights stripped from him simply because he is not "our best foot?"

Despite his ignorance and anger, I think we should be fighting for him. We simply should not make him a poster child.

 

[Nolo]

He's an idiot. Yep.
The real question is: do you want to be arresting people for being idiots?
I could arrest a few people in my Government class by that standard.
This is wrong.

 

[Justin]

Yes, the guy is not eloquent and is voicing frustrations that are not PC to recognize. However, I think many of the members may not realize just how bad it is within colleges.

I teach at a community college. Yes, I know how bad it is. That doesn't excuse Sheffler's stupidity. We didn't pick him to be our spokesman, and I refuse to be shoehorned into defending an idiot.

However, most institutions of higher learning DO rail against white men, have classes that spend all of class denouncing conservatives (when the class has nothing to do with politics, like "Art History"), and engage in racist practices. ANYTIME you make your decision based on race, this is a racist act. Simply because a minority race is involved or benefited does not make the act less racist.

What the **** does this have to do with concealed carry?

Oh, right, nothing.

Then why was Scheffler even writing about it?

 

[Justin]

The real question is: do you want to be arresting people for being idiots?

Fail. Scheffler was not arrested. The real question is "Do you want an idiot representing our position to college administrators and/or the general public?"

 

[MakAttak]

Fail. Scheffler was not arrested. The real question is "Do you want an idiot representing our position to college administrators and/or the general public?"

True. However, the question I am dealing with is "do you want people sent for psychiatric evaluation for being an idiot?"

Although I might be tempted to say yes, I think actual threats are necessary for that, not simply anger.

 

[Nolo]

Fail. Scheffler was not arrested. The real question is "Do you want an idiot representing our position to college administrators and/or the general public?"

I apologize, I mixed up two equally stupid situations. But my point essentially still stands, you don't want to attack individuals just for being idiots.
And you don't have to be rude to me. This is THR.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Alright, many people have objected to this student because of his annoyance and his poor ability to express himself.

I teach college courses, at least he is coherent and close to the spellings. Truly our institutions of higher learning do not teach how to think and speak. (In this I mean thinking and speaking logically and coherently - they do tell you WHAT to think.)

Yes, the guy is not eloquent and is voicing frustrations that are not PC to recognize. However, I think many of the members may not realize just how bad it is within colleges. I am fortunate to have gone to a conservative college and even in grad school, a conservative, even libertarian, department (go economics). However, most institutions of higher learning DO rail against white men, have classes that spend all of class denouncing conservatives (when the class has nothing to do with politics, like "Art History"), and engage in racist practices. ANYTIME you make your decision based on race, this is a racist act. Simply because a minority race is involved or benefited does not make the act less racist. Obviously this student should be taught to better express himself, but he is voicing frustration with what is very likely an overtly racist institution.

+1
The recommended mental evaluation was uncalled for, imho. The young man is angry, and surely would have worded his e-mails differently if he knew they would be picked apart by Monday morning quarterbacks.

 

[MakAttak]

One more note:

He mentioned all these problems because he was voicing a number of frustrations with the way the college is being run (CCP ignored, racism, sensationalism, etc...). He sent the letter to the administration, those who are responsible for running the college. This was a complaint letter, not an open letter to the public on gun rights.

Again, he is not a great representative of gun rights, nor of those who wish to end the racism either. However, I still think people should be able to have a free exchange of ideas. (I almost wrote "within a college atmosphere" and realized this should be absolute, not simply within learning institutions.)

 

[Justin]

However, HE IS NOT INSANE. That is patently obvious: he is frustrated and angry.

Should he be left to be adjudicated insane and his rights stripped from him simply because he is not "our best foot?"

Mak, you do have a valid point there. Though I have to wonder if there's a difference between what the university is recommending and being adjudicated mentally ill. If they just make him take an anger management class, I doubt that will strip him of his rights. At least that would be my hope.

 

[jlbraun]

The 2A appeal by itself is fine. A 2A appeal by a disgruntled student is suspicious.

DINGDINGDING!

The young man is angry, and surely would have worded his e-mails differently if he knew they would be picked apart by Monday morning quarterbacks.

It don't matter. You write to a college administrator, that's pretty public.

I think he should take anger management and undergo an evaluation. I refuse to defend an idiot creep just because he's pro-2A.

 

[MakAttak]

If it's simply anger management and whatnot, it's not an egregious breach of his rights.

However, given the vehemence I have seen from the other side of the political spectrum (ESPECIALLY within a college environment) is this not another example of different standards for those who support the right to keep and bear arms?

WE should hold ourselves to a higher standard and someone should have a talk with this guy, but I do not think it is the college's place to do suspend him and order "evaluation."

 

[MakAttak]

Another point:

So because someone is angry and supports the right to keep and bear arms, automatically we should think he's going to snap and kill people?

Is this not the argument rehashed over and over again? It people don't grab anything nearby and beat people just because they are angry, why do we assume access to a firearm suddenly makes them potential killers?

 

[Prince Yamato]

I still stand by my opinion that this kid is a piece of work, and I do not want him speaking for me on RKBA issues.

The kid sounds like a kook. I agree.

 

[Flyboy]

Though I have to wonder if there's a difference between what the university is recommending and being adjudicated mentally ill. If they just make him take an anger management class, I doubt that will strip him of his rights.

Without defending such an obviously poor representative of our rights, even the call for a mental evaluation--or the possibility of mandatory reeducation classes--is a horrible precedent, and created a chilling effect for all who might speak up in the future, even those who would be good ambassadors.

It also continues to cement in the minds of some that "pro-gun" is somehow connected to "not sane," which is a goal of at least some segments of the anti-gun movement.

Bottom line: Scheffler is a dolt, and I'd just as soon not be associated with him; nonetheless, the administration's actions are also pretty objectionable.

It's possible to have opposing sides with no winners, just a bunch of losers.

 

[joab]

Some of you should read the articles a little better

The university is not sending him anywhere or forcing him to under go any typ of procedure

They have suspended him for what they believe is a threatening attitude towards their system and the type of student that attends their school
If he wants to attend their college he must undergo some type of counseling and be deemed safe
If it is determined that his comments were just blowing off steam then he would quite possibly be allowed to attend
Although I can not see why he would have wanted to in the first place since everything that they stand for is offensive to him

Didn't some people suggest that the whole VT thing would not have happened if the school admin had taken Cho's rants and behavior seriously