2nd Amendment with 1st Amendment Trampled

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thanks, Shawn.L, for pointing us to further information on this incident. Speaking as a lawyer, I find it beyond outrageous that a public institution would engage in such a clear violation of your sister's First Amendment rights. Unfortunately, this is fairly typical of what I have come to expect of educational institutions--free speech is great, until you espouse an opinion perceived to be less than "liberal." Once that occurs, they do everything they can to stifle your opinion, often accusing the individual of having dangerous tendencies.

I hope that the college and its administrators pay a price for this outrageous conduct.
 
I hope that the college and its administrators pay a price for this outrageous conduct.

Well, it made all the news channels here and front page of the Tribune Review (the more conservative of our 2 papers), so they are already feeling the heat of the spotlight and trying to backtrack.

further, had they just cooperated with her forming of a club then not only would they have avoided this public shamefest they wouldnt have garnered all this attention........ and with it the perfect platform to bring more fight than they expected their way.

here in PA we have state preemption on firearm laws. That means that only the state legislature may write laws regarding the possesion or tranfer of firearms. It stops cities from passing their own laws.
well, CCAC is a STATE FUNDED SCHOOL, so....... it would seem that their rules that do not allow for carry on campus may be able to be legally challenged in a way that rules at private institutions cannot yet be. :)

now we just need a little more momentum on that front

the article from the trib was really good, and the writer was very pleasant with us.

posted under fair use
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_627098.html
CCAC student claims school's dean blocked gun-rights group

By Mike Cronin
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, May 28, 2009

A Community College of Allegheny County student said a dean told her she was breaking the law for trying to start a campus chapter of a national organization that supports students' right to carry licensed, concealed weapons on campus.

CCAC spokesman David Hoovler said the college bans weapons on campus. Twenty-four states prohibit concealed guns on campuses, and 15, including Pennsylvania, leave it up to the individual schools.

Christine Brashier of Squirrel Hill said her free speech rights were violated when Yvonne Burns, dean of student development at the school's Allegheny Campus, told her she was not allowed to distribute fliers about Students for Concealed Carry on Campus.

"She literally said, 'You may want to discuss this topic, but the college does not -- and you cannot make us,'" Brashier said Wednesday. "She said I was breaking the law by soliciting on campus, that I was trying to sell the idea of an organization."

Burns was not available to talk to a reporter who visited the campus yesterday afternoon, Hoovler said. He said, however, "We do support the First Amendment and students' rights to discuss any topic they want to talk about."

Burns could not be reached at home last night. CCAC President Alex Johnson was out of town, Hoovler said. Johnson could not be reached by phone.

Hoovler said he could not comment on the April conversation between Brashier and Burns because he was not there.

"We are not blocking the formation of any group," Hoovler said. "The student is free to go through the same procedures to set up an organization that any other student has to go through."

Brashier, 24, a first-year education student at the Allegheny Campus on the North Side, said she wants to be able to carry a gun on campus for safety. She said she was following CCAC's procedures to form a campus organization when she was asked to meet with Burns. Brashier said she left crying because she thought she was about to be expelled.

"She said I already had one foot out of the school," Brashier said.

"The student who was advocating creation of the group has never faced any disciplinary action from CCAC and remains in good standing at the college," Hoovler said in a statement.

In the wake of the 2007 massacre at Virginia Tech, in which a gunman killed 32 people before killing himself, more than 20 states have considered legislation to allow concealed weapons on campus for protection, according to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, a nonprofit organization in Washington.

Robert L. Shibley, vice president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, a nonprofit organization based in Philadelphia, made Brashier's cause public yesterday. Shibley said he acted because Johnson did not respond to an April 29 letter from his foundation.

That letter told Johnson that Brashier's actions "in no way constituted solicitation, that CCAC is obligated to permit students to distribute literature and may not ban it on the basis of viewpoint or content, and that if CCAC recognizes student organizations at all, it must recognize an organization that supports concealed carry on campus."

Hoovler said the complex legal issues the foundation raised required that CCAC evaluate them before responding. "A full response" is forthcoming, he said.

"The fact that there are active chapters on dozens of other campuses should've been a major indicator that the group is allowed to exist," Shibley said. "I don't think this was really that difficult a decision to make."

Sam Gupta, Concealed Carry's state director and chair at the University of Pittsburgh, agreed.

"I've helped organize chapters on between 13 and 15 Pennsylvania campuses," said Gupta, 21, a senior studying economics who lives in Squirrel Hill.

"I did the same thing at Pitt and had no problem."

Twenty-two Pennsylvania colleges and universities have student leaders for Concealed Carry, according to its Web site. Area schools with chapters, in addition to Pitt, include Point Park University, IUP and California University, Gupta said.

Suzanne Lopka, 28, a former CCAC student who graduated on Saturday from Chatham University in Squirrel Hill, called Brashier's situation "absolutely ridiculous."

"What makes me angry is that we had groups supporting the legalization of marijuana and everything else -- no one violated their free speech," said Lopka, a Squirrel Hill resident who supports Brashier's effort.
 
In the end, you're really nothing but a bunch of slaves with guns...
 
really so I can at any moment in class, get up out of my chair, and start spouting my political veiws and the school can not do anything about it?

Any type of club on campus, that uses campus resorces( IE rooms) can and is regulated by the school.

what IS required is for the administation to treat all such incidents equally. For instance, if student A stood on his chair and for 10 minutes interupted class to talk about how everyone should vote for American Idol conestant Suzie Q, but when student B attempted to do the same thing for American Idol contestant John T, but was barred by the administration in the name of 'classroom disruption' you have a problem.

Hence the school is able to bar ALL clubs, but not bar specific clubs based on disagreeing with that club.
To form a club, you need to have a staff adviser, so you are using Resorces.

yes, which is generally why a single intersted party must find other interested parties until some predetermined number of members is reached where it becomes feasable and reasonable to allocate scares resources to the club.

Still, all clubs must be treated the same, and all students attempting to start a club must be treated the same.
 
Glad to see some positive updates. Also, it looks like the college spin meister is doing his thing to defuse the obvious MAJOR blunders that the two Deans did!!!

I would really like to see Lou Dobbs and/or Fox News (Beck or O'Reilly would be great) take up this cause. I do believe it is much more widespread than this one incident!!!

Take care and please keep us informed about the upcoming lawsuit. I just hope that FIRE does go the legal route. Your sister had her Constitutional rights trampled on big time and she should not just accept an apology. This needs much more media attention as this is extremely serious.
 
update:

CCAC allows handouts without prior review
Officials reverse earlier decision
Friday, October 02, 2009
By Bill Schackner, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Community College of Allegheny County will no longer require prior review of student handouts after complaints by a women who sought last spring to form a group advocating the right to carry concealed firearms on campus.

The student, Christine "Christa" Brashier, attempted to organize a campus chapter of a national group, Students for Concealed Carry on Campus.

In June, she said a CCAC employee told her the organizing amounted to "soliciting," ordered her to destroy fliers she created and warned she risked sanctions if she pursued the matter without the school's OK.

Ms. Brashier said the order violated her free speech rights.

The Philadelphia-based Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) and the American Civil Liberties Union of Pennsylvania took up her cause.

CCAC officials, including President Alex Johnson, have said it was never the school's intent to deny her the right to organize such a group. They said fliers left on tables throughout the campus cafeteria and elsewhere violated rules by using CCAC's name in a way that suggested a link between it and her as-yet unrecognized group.

Initially, the college defended the prior-review policy, but in recent days senior administrators amended their position on the rule.

"It was set up to protect students from harmful solicitation," CCAC spokesman David Hoovler said. "But looking at it in light of this situation, we realized that there was some ambiguity there and it was probably best to do away with that."

According to CCAC, the language struck from the college's facilities management policies is as follows: "Solicitation: The distribution or display of, and the personal contact with individuals or groups related to non-sponsored college material or events, without prior written approval of the college are prohibited. These actions are limited to public property; however, public property in this context does not include college property."

Both the ACLU and FIRE praised the decision. Both had said the rule was unconstitutional and that using the college's name on the handouts did not imply endorsement.

"We're very pleased that they have come around and corrected the problem," said Witold Walczak, the state ACLU's legal director.

"We are glad that CCAC has finally given its students the right to encourage one another to band together for causes they believe in," said Adam Kissel, director of FIRE's individual rights defense program. "This is another example of how just one college student standing up for her rights can help bring liberty to her entire campus."

Ms. Brashier, 24, a second-year education student from Squirrel Hill, declined comment yesterday on the decision, but she confirmed that her efforts to establish the group are continuing.

note that the FIRE press release is not until Monday, this story was released preemptively by CCAC using a handpicked reporter.

Im guessing they are trying to aviod the PR nightmare they had last go around.
 
If FIRE is taking the case on, they will provide the lawyer. Litigating cases that fit their mission is one of their functions.
 
It seems as though my old stomping grounds has become a bastion of progressive thinking and no longer respects the Constitution.

I agree with what you're saying, although the terminology being used has always bothered me. From my perspective, as people Americans have always had to be "progressive" when it comes to living up to the ideals set forth in documents such as the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights (technically part of the Constitution), and the Declaration of Independence. The same is still true today, with the 2nd Amendment RKBA as a prime example, as it was back when the Emancipation Proclamation was issued during a brutal Civil War. Most who fight more for certain classes of rights are ironically labeled "conservatives" while those who fight for others are labeled "liberals," but the ones that we here in this forum derisively label "progressives" are really anti-American socialists (e.g. Barak Obama) who wish to make progress away from the ideals of the United States rather than toward them as true progressives have always had. I bet they love when "conservatives" and "liberals" hate on each other while the Constitution shrinks in our rear-view mirrors. Socialism has always been one of our great enemies, and it has now learned to hide among us with the clever use of terminology, and thereby subvert us from within.
 
I am all for CCW on Campus and Guns on Campus. When I was college in the 1980's I lived on campus and had my 2 pistols, a shotgun, a deer rifle and a 22 rifle in my room. The College had no policy against and if they had I would have moved off campus. I went hunting on the Saline river bottoms south of Little Rock Ar every weekend.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top