If you had to arm a militia of 10 men (2)

[RiverwinoIA]

You have a pile of money, knowledge of an impending invasion, and 9 good friends. Most of them are average shots (basic firearms experience, hunting mainly), a few are ringers. You must arm your 10 man militia.

You plan to strike supply lines, small squads of scouts, camps, and other small or soft targets. They have armor, air, and artillery in the area, and will use them on you if you give them time to.

What long arms would each member of your team recieve?
(No illegal or NFA weapons allowed)

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

Well, I don't know till I think it out then I'll post it. It would largely depend on the mission. However, it would probably involve most of the guys with AK's...and a couple set up as snipers/designated marksmen. And perhaps one guy to protect them with an assault rifle or a sub-gun who can also act as a coordinator/spotter.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

6 men divided into 2 assault teams armed w/AR15's of various lengths (16-20")

2 men armed w/ Bolt action rifles preferably in .308; but scince we're talking home-grown militia, any common caliber would be acceptable scince we'd be able to find ammo in most stores and bolt guns arent finicky to certain types.

2-men armed with M1A's or FAL's equiped w/bi-pods.

 

[johnsonrlp]

If I had a pile of money,

I'd have NFA weapons.

Short of that, read up on small unit tactics. Spend your money on food and other supplies some SKS's and a couple good scoped turnbolts, and take their weapons.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

They have armor you say? Both hard and soft targets?

2 teams each having the following:

1. Scoped 50 cal.
1. 308(most likely a FAL variant)
3. AR15's
No scatterguns, as in this case DISTANCE is your BEST friend. You get close enough that a SG is effective, you're screwed.
Each team with the shooters strengths best matched to their particular weapon.

(Suppressed would be a huge bonus, but you said no NFA stuff)

 

[Sry0fcr]

M1A's all around in varying lengths, set up for mission specific roles. Weapon and ammo commonality, simplified training, good range accuracy and barrier penetration.

 

[zoom6zoom]

What ammo is the enemy using? Always nice to be able to have them supply the ammo for you...

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Ten guys with semiauto .50 BMG's all scattered around in the brush.

Ever play Starcraft? You know those siege tanks the Terrans have? Same idea... The symphony of "Thoom!" coming from just about everywhere.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Thats why the FALS and AR's. I assumed we were talking about the present time.

That way, if my guys did thier job, we'd never run out of ammo.

 

[ndh87]

my layout...

2- M1As scoped with bipods for the designated marksmen.
2- MP5SD with aimpoints
3- P90 with aimpoints
3- AK-47 (EBR style)

1 guy with an ak and one with a p90 to guard and spot for the designated marksmen. 2 teams consisting of 1 p90, 1 ak, and one mp5sd. And 1911's for everyone as a back up.

 

[Texfire]

Okay I'll play.

5 scoped/bolt action rifles in .308 firing match grade ammo.
5 spotters armed with FAL-style carbines with ACOG optics and a spotting scope. If the enemy does not use .308 you'll eventually have to use battlefield pickups in place of the FALs and reserve the remaining .308 ammo for the sniper rifles. Don't forget the efficacy of IEDs for ambush, secondary devices are psycholgically more potent than their simple effectiveness.

Split up them into sniper/spotter teams and train in sniping tactics. Hit and fade, avoid prolonged contact, and pick psychologically significant targets. Use familiarity with terrain to your advantage. When you strike leave no survivors and leave an identifying mark at the location. When possible pick up weapons from killed enemy combatants and attempt to recruit/train other refugees to form an ambush team. Don't pick up fruit that mysteriously falls from the back of a military truck. Resist the temptation to name yourself "Wolverines".

Tex

 

[Clipper]

...Has TCM been showing 'Red Dawn' re-runs lately?

 

[DogBonz]

my list:

My thought here is that having a small well armed force, we would be using a Fabian strategy; strike hard and fast (ambush) and then quickly retreat, combined with a strategy for harassing their supply lines. I would go with 1 50 cal for the vehicles, light armor, and any grounded/ low flying aircraft. 2 scoped M1a’s for soft targets, aka people, and 2 M1a SOCOM’s with ACOG’s or EOtech’s. Everyone else would get AR15 M4 style carbines.

 

[Stiletto Null]

Let's see...

Urban area. Ranges are "short" to "medium".

The inventory of insurrection-viable type arms, from me, my roommate, and a buddy:
M48A Mauser (add a scout rig: scope)
M48 Mauser (Mojosights)
M39 Mosin (scout rig: scope)
M44 Mosin (scout rig: red dot)
M44 Mosin (scout rig: red dot)
SKS (scout rig: red dot)
FN49 (standard sights are already excellent)
K31 (standard scope on D&T receiver mount)
Another K31 (standard scope on clamp-on receiver mount)
12ga pump (Moss. Maverick 88)

Total cost of modifications...
Scout mount for Mauser: $75
Scout mounts for Mosins: $200
Scout mount for SKS: $65
K31 mounts: $100
K31 gunsmithing: $100
Reflex optics: $900 (may as well be extravagant and mount EOTechs)
Scout scopes: $550
Standard scopes: $500

Ammunition:
The rest of the freaking budget.

We wouldn't need to buy anything but ammo and modifications. By the time we start running low on ammunition (*snickers*), we will have been captured, killed, or sufficiently effective to have harvested a bunch of opfor equipment.

You do not attempt to take on a military head on. That would be suicide. Shoot and scoot, fire from a distance, etc.—but do not allow yourself to engage in pitched battle.

***

If I were actually to set about arming up everybody from scratch...

Ten AR-type rifles with 16" 6.5 Grendel uppers, suppressors, ACOGs, and high-mount coaxial reflex sights (think JPoints).

 

[mkh100]

Im joining up with Texfire or Sry0fcr.

If we are scrapping in North America Im gonna choose 308 over 223 and skip the com block stuff altogether. If cost where a concern I might go the other way but I doubt it.

All ten guys get a 308 MBR. M1A, FAL, G3. Im not super partial to any off those I own G3 varients but if starting from scratch any would do. my 3 or 4 best shooters would get scopes and 3 or 4 would get some fast aquasition ACOG's or the like for close quarters. Everyboby gets night vision goggles.

2 or 3 reapeating 50's can be bolts or semi-auto but not single shot. Appropriate equipment for distance shooting for each team.....scope, rangefinding gear, etc... the right mix of ammo is critical and may well cost more to procure in quantity than the rifles themselves.

Common caliber, common mag pistols all around. I like glocks because you can mix in some smaller frame handguns that share the large frame mags.

Add in a few 12 guage pump shotguns for specific missions. and a half dozen AR's (just in case you run low on ammo and can procure some 223)

All the obvious ancillary gear to make the above secure and usefull.

Yes I have recently watched Red Dawn....I may watch it again tonight

 

[Ben Shepherd]

For those going all 308:

Did you calculate the sheer weight of 308 ammo into your plans? In this situation you'll need to MOVE, and move FAST.

 

[Stiletto Null]

That's why I opted 6.5 Grendel.

Still heavier than 5.56, but nowhere near as bad as .308.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

SN:

What about the high volume of suppresive fire you will end up needing in a defensive retreat? Your stocks would deplete rapidly if you really got pinned down.

Also, pretty tough to scavange resupply, I'd think.

Good round, but those 2 disadvantages turned me other directions.

 

[TMM]

ooh, interesting:

1: .50BMG, bolt action, with 10-20 rounds, depending on the mission, for the best shooter in the group for the armored stuff, and a FAL carbine with as much ammo that can be comfortably carried.
3: .308 scoped sniper rifles, bolt action, for the three other best shooters, and an AR-15, 16" barrel, as much ammo as can be carried easily.
6: Fullsize FAL for field combat, perhaps with an Eotech or reddot scope for easier target aquisition, as much ammo as comfortable. for CQB they would change to a 16" M1A Socom.

They all get .45ACP pistols, whatever they like. 1911, XD-45, HKUSP, Glock, etc. at least 3 spare mags.

~tmm

 

[junyo]

Depends. Out in open country, rolling plains with nice long sight lines, Barret M107's for everybody. I'll trade shots across half a mile with ARs or AKs. ATV's because anyone you shot at is going to call for the air or artillery instantaneously, so you need to be able to scoot after you shoot, and carry most, if not all your gear with you. Also something that lets you destroy buildings and structures.

Broken country, canyon country, places with good cover, what Sry0fcr said. Maybe swap out one for a semiauto 7.62 M1919. PLR16's as sidearms/assualt subguns. Ghillie suits. Set close ambushes to take their artillery out of the equation. Also something that lets you destroy buildings and structures.

Urban, populated areas, M4's for most, with a couple of subguns and a shottie. 9mm DAO sidearms, Glocks or XDs. The key is concealable firepower, the ability to hit a target then melt into the crowd. Did I mention something that lets you destroy buildings and structures. Urban is your best bet for survival since it limits the artillery's firing lanes, and aircraft's ability to find/target you, not to mention that hopefully the enemy is averse to creating collateral damage.

Am I allowed to use NFA stuff after I take it off the invaders?

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

10 AK's (47 or 74 is fine with me - I personally really like the 5.45 cartridge, but in this situation you take what you can get. So if that means 5.56, 7.62x39, or 5.45, whichever is fine with me.)

3 RPK's or (preferably) RPD's (While I would prefer RPK's in x39, 5.45 would still be OK. Also, if it were possible to get a PKM [non-NFA semi-auto PKM's do exist] or even an old Degtayarev I would be happy to have something in 7.62x54R with a 50+ round drums or belts for laying down suppresing fire or for chewing up cover. The Drum and belt felt RPD in 7.62x39 would be far FAR favored over the normal magazine and occasionally drum fed RPK, but beggars can't be choosers.

3 PSL/SVD type rifles.

Supplemental - 1-3 Mortars with whatever ammo we can muster.


Every soldier has the base infantry rifle, and the soldiers who are the best shots get the marksmen rifles, and those who want to be squad gunners get the RPK/RPD's.

Squad gunners carry 300+ rounds on them and are always working in a team with one of the soldiers who has only an AK. The soldier with just the AK carries as much ammo and materiel as possible and serves the squad gunner.

At least one of the single riflemen will serve as the spotter and horse for the 3 designated marksmen who are not trying to emulate Carlos Hathcock, but rather support the fire team by making precision, distance shots.

The one remaining soldier with a single AK with pack light, but will serve as point man and will carry the mortar and will potentially coordinate tactics and be the main liason between other like-minded groups.


The reason I want 3 DM's and 3 Squad gunners is that there is always going to be the unfortunate truth that men die in combat, and if you have 8 infantrymen and 1 SG and 1 DM, you run the very serious risk of losing a major tactic and logistical aspect of your squad.

There are never going to be prolonged, long range engagements with this 10 man squad: there will be attacks on convoys, small squads, materiel, patrols, and other small hit and run objectives.


Assuming that we are going to be fighting against a professional army with billions of dollars at its disposal, any engagement beyond 300 yards that last over 10 minutes is going to be a suicide run - yes, our marksmen may be able to outshoot them, but in the end it won't matter when they call in firesupport and we get demoslished with an air or artillery attack.

One of the reasons that I've hoped to have a mortar launcher is that you can cause quite a bit of damage with them (with a qualified and learned operator) and you can use them very effectively to draw the enemies attention away and expose them at the flank or rear for a brief moment (which is all you need sometimes).


Basically, at first, what you need most are attacks that going to keep you and your squad alive, demoralize the enemy (by not letting them steam-rolling your rebellion/revolution quickly...which gives hegemonic legitimacy and a morale boost), and let your supporters or potential supporters know that you are going to survive and continue the fight.

 

[Rem700SD]

No NFA means no spray and pray. I'd spend a good bit of money training those mediocre shooters into marksmen. The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in war.

Common ammo type is important. I'd pick a .308 semi's for everyone, same model/type with accurized variants w/ scopes for my designated marksmen. Yes, .308 is heavy, but you're arming for a heavy assult, not a seige.

A .50 would be an asset, as would sone IED's for ambush.

 

[Stiletto Null]

SN:

What about the high volume of suppresive fire you will end up needing in a defensive retreat? Your stocks would deplete rapidly if you really got pinned down.

Also, pretty tough to scavange resupply, I'd think.

Good round, but those 2 disadvantages turned me other directions.

I look at it this way.

If we start out with $texas, then we can safely stock up on a few thousand rounds; call it a thousand rounds per person, or forty magazines' worth.

If that's not enough ammunition/firepower to glean a usable stockpile of enemy weapons and supplies, then either we're so hopelessly outnumbered/outgunned that hit & run and "snipe from the hills" tactics aren't going to work anyway, or we're already dead.

 

[Texfire]

Yes with .308 you can carry less ammo, but one squad of 10 is not going to last long in a standup fight. The boltguns are for accurate long range shots, the FALs are for volume fire if the ambush gets turned, and for common ammunition that can be fired out of the boltgun. Don't carry enough ammo to slow you down, if you get involved in a protracted fight then you'll negate your advantages of being small and mobile. Of course, what do I know, except theoretically?

Tex

 

[Eightball]

Youall are playing "small fry" with your weapons.

Fighting "Europeanized enemy":

2, maybe 3 sniper teams, following setup:
Sniper: Sako TRG 42 (fully fitted) with Swarovski, .308.
Spotter: M21, .308. Suitable milsurp scope for that.
Have 2 spare Barret .50BMG for if the mission calls for it.

Skirmish group of 4 or 6 (depends on how many sniper teams):
4~SIG 556; 2 with maybe a 4x scope, 2 with ACog. If 2 more are available, then 2 F2000 (driver for vehicle, "lead man" in CQC). Or maybe all F2000, depends on what vehicles we're stuck with.

Pistols: Kimber Warrior w/surefire, or CZ75s. And then a crapload of ammo for everything, slings, holsters, uniforms, etc. And, for what's left, get some unofficial armor plating for our primary vehicles (not IED-proof, I'm assuming "THEY" wouldn't use any, just small-arms), and a stockpile of supplies. And have already built an underground bunker. No, I'm not kidding--I have advance warning, right?

I'll post in a sec for my "other" setup, just to not overwhelm anyone.