(il) !*$#foid Card Snafu!

[Kingcreek]

For those of you unfamiliar with Illinois, residents must have a Firearm Owners Identification Card (issued by the IL state police) to legally possess or purchase firearms and/or ammunition. I hate this ridiculous scam but it has been a fact of life here for years.
Well MY card is due to expire on 03-01-03, so being the law abiding citizen I carefully filled out my renewal application and sent it in with the required $5 fee several weeks ago. TODAY I called the ISP to inquire about the status of my app. After ~45 min on hold I get to talk to a state employee who says
"your renewal is not currently in our system"
What does that mean?, I politely ask.
"It means I show no record of your application being processed. When an app is recieved it goes to 'banking' first and after payment clears then it comes here."
But my check cleared the bank almost 4 weeks ago.
"Uh, well... we do have a backlog of approximately 15,000 applications."
(still polite) And what are the ramifications for me if my card expires and I still have not recieved my new one?
"Well, just keep all your guns locked up and unloaded and don't take them out anywhere or shoot any of them."
(How did he know I had more than one????)
Excuse me, but through no fault of my own, and with every effort to comply in a timely manner, you tell me I shouldn't use or load my firearms?!?! And what you haven't said is that technically, I am not even legally able to possess firearms or ammunition on March 1st!!!
......"well with the state budget problems and the hiring freeze we have to work short staffed due to retirements and people quiting to take other jobs. If you haven't heard anything in a few days you can check back and see if maybe your name or date of birth was entered incorrectly- sometimes that happens."
Thank you sir, but I think I'll be calling my state representative instead.
---------------------

Boy this really has me steaming

 

[Don Gwinn]

Well, isn't that real freakin' CUTE.

You have the canceled check, and that little snake still blew you off? You are absolutely right, by the way. Locking up your guns and not leaving the house with them MIGHT work, but it's technically no cure. Legally, you will be a felon as soon as you have guns and no valid FOID. In Chicagoland, they'd send CAGE knocking on your door to confiscate your firearms and possibly arrest you--or worse.

They're backlogged by 15,000? How in the world did that happen? It's not even hunting season.

I'm sorry. I've got nothing useful to say. My jaw literally dropped open when I read that. If you should happen to need any help from someone in the Springfield area (or someone to show up at your rep's Springfield office in person) let me know. I don't work up there anymore as of today, but I can still stop by.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Bad Experiences with FOID Pt. 1:

Two years ago my best friend wanted to get a FOID card. He had a wife at the time who was deathly afraid of guns (she did him a favor and bailed on him not long after.) Anyway, he applied for the FOID, and we waited.

And waited.

And waited.

Frankly, I assumed he'd gotten the card. Then one day he told me it had been six months and asked how long it was supposed to take. Well, it's not supposed to take six months, so we called the State Police. They told him his application had been denied because he had six warrants out for his arrest, mostly for for drug convictions.

Well, this guy is squeaky clean. There was no way that was possible. They insisted it was all right there in the records, so he asked them how the search had been done. Eventually it came out; they searched for his first and last name (Scott Stewart.) They got a hit on Scott Stewart as a felon, so they denied the application and filed it. That's it. They didn't try to contact him, they didn't check to find out if it was the same Scott Stewart, they didn't do a damn thing except make a stupid assumption and toss it into the Dead Zone.

He told them to look at the middle name on the application, and sure enough, that would have been enough to tell they had the wrong guy if only the idiots had bothered. Of course, the SS didn't match, either, nor did the DL number.

Basically, the ISP division that handles FOID applications is a pack of retarded chimpanzees.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Bad FOID Experience Pt. 2

Now, this one didn't happen to me. Dad swears every word is true, but I don't remember all the details myself.

Back in the mid-'90's, when dad had Gwinn's Guns and Tackle up and running, a gentleman came in and asked to apply for a FOID card. This was an everyday occurrence, and dad thought nothing of it, so he took a picture, put it on the app, and filled it out. He asked to inspect the customer's driver license as proof of ID and copied the name, SS# and DL# directly from the DL. He mailed it off. Later, the customer came back with the FOID in hand and dad sold him a handgun. He called the sale in as required, followed the waiting period--dad's a stickler for legality in everything not connected to bag limits. The customer left with his gun after waiting three days and everything was wonderful.

A couple of weeks later, there was a burglary in Carlinville, the small county seat about 20 miles south of here. This was no ordinary burglary, though. The burglar chose to invade the home of a County deputy. The deputy was at a law enforcement conference of some kind at Blackburn College in Carlinville along with about 250 other officers from all around. His alarm system triggered when the burglar went in, and he was paged. According to dad, this deputy stood up and shouted that he had to get home, he was being robbed. . . . and all 200-some cops decided to go with him! The burglar, being too stupid to check for the alarm, was still in the house when the Macoupin County Cop Army descended upon it, and according to dad, he didn't put up much of a fight.

Well, anyway, the County Sheriff's office called dad at the shop the next day and asked whether Jim Bob Buttbrains the Third had been trying to fence any guns to him lately, because he had apparently committed an entire string of burglaries and stolen several guns.

Well, dad is not one to mince words. "No," he said, "he never tried to sell me any guns, but I sold him a pistol two weeks ago."

"Oh, no, that can't be right. You couldn't have sold him a gun--he can't have a FOID card. He's got a felony record!"

Well, not only does dad prefer not to mince words, but he doesn't take well to being called a liar. "Look, I didn't approve the guy. YOU GUYS approved him. All I did was fill out the application and send it in. You gave him a FOID card, I saw it with my own eyes, and I called it in when he bought the gun. You approved the sale! Check the records!" Of course, it wasn't "you guys" who did that, it was the State Police, but dad was not in a good mood.

It turned out, after much irritation and repetition on dad's part, that he was exactly the right. The burglar had simply gone to the DMV and changed his last name by one letter (changing nothing else, including SS #) and been given a DL with no questions asked. He had then come to dad and presented the DL, and so dad had made the application in that name with no questions asked. The application went to the State Police, and since the name didn't get any hits in their database, they approved it.

What we never could figure out was why someone who was making a career out of stealing guns and other valuables from unoccupied houses would jump through all the hoops to get a FOID and buy guns legally. But if he'd had brains, I suppose he would probably have had a job.

 

[Kingcreek]

Don G, Thanks for the offer of assistance.
I know my rep and he knows me so hopefully a phone call will spur some action. My wife has a current card and I don't expect any problems out here on the farm. I feel like driving to Springfield for some in-person protesting anyway but it probably wouldn't change much.
The FOID card is a bad joke.
Last year I had a problem with a fella at the end of my road. He had his own little shooting gallery set up and was shooting toward and across the road. He shot up the road signs, a telephone junction pedestal, etc all from his yard. Called the SD twice and nothing changed. One day headed into town and topped the hill at the same time a rifle shot zinged by and he has the rifle pointed right at me. This time I call the SD and they send an ISP trooper who discovers neighbor has no FOID and a bust for some weed. They confiscate 2 rifles and a shotgun. I get served papers that say I have to appear to testify as states witness. I spent most of a morning watching an idiot parade in circuit court only to see him show up with a brand new FOID card. The trooper was a no show and the judge gives him his hardware back.
FOID is a stupid ineffective beauraucratic mess and an infringement on the constitutional rights of law abiding citizens.
I welcome any suggestions on how to deal with this. I've got a headache- been gnashing my teeth all day.
Maybe I'll go coyote hunting tommorrow while I'm still "legal".

 

[fallingblock]

This thread....

causes sadness to realize that things are already this bad in some U.S. states. Twenty years ago, when I was a resident of Indiana, there were a lot of Hoosier politicians touting the FOID as 'sensible gun control'...good thing they didn't prevail.
The state of Illinois is a prisoner and victim of Chicago.

"FOID is a stupid ineffective beauraucratic mess and an infringement on the constitutional rights of law abiding citizens."

We Australians are used to this...not a proper response, perhaps, but the one that seems to happen with such foolish attempts to control objects rather than criminal intent.

I hope this gets sorted out to your satisfaction.

 

[coonan357]

Don, I was at the local shop seeing if my new Lda showed up in a matter of 2 hours ( funny how time flies ) there where 10 new applicants and 2 renewals , this store is in the sw subs of chicago , I think with the crud that KIng Ritchie and his pawn Roddy are up to .the people are getting there cards before those two morons do something .

 

[Kevlarman]

Gosh, I thought California was bad!

 

[Kingcreek]

update

Yesterday I spent some time on the phone.
Called my state rep and spoke to a secretary. Expecting a return call.
Called a pro-gun state rep in a neighboring district, spoke with a secretary.
Called our state senator and left message.
Called Illinois state raffle assoc and spoke to a secretary who was aware of the problems.
Called the office of the Governor and spoke to a liason who atleast sounded sympathetic and promised to pass my concerns up the ladder. I'm going to call her again in a day or two and follow up.
As I told them all, the system is fataly flawed. It does not do what was intended and it is an unneccessary burden on the law abiding citizens- especially when administered with typical state efficiency. Illinois has had this stupidity for ~30years-if it works why aren't all the states using it or something similar.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Well, keep your ears open. Mine is expiring in April (didn't think to look at it until you posted this.) Anyway, I talked to my mom, who works for DNR, and she says that supposedly if you walk into the ISP building on Sixth St. they do the whole thing while you wait. I'm going to try to do that this week. If it works, I'll let you know. I know it sucks to drive to Springfield, but that may be what it takes. Frankly, I'm not sure the ISP will be impressed with your Rep and Senator. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.

Mom says DNR is losing people left and right and has been told by Blago that it's simply not a priority--all they do is encourage hunters anyway.

 

[Kingcreek]

Apparently my name bounced around Springfield alot last week. It pays to make a nusance of yourself.
The ISP captain that called me was directed to look into my case by the Govs aid that I spoke to. He is the director of the FOID program. He defended the program and said the real problem is the cost of the card does not cover the costs of the administration and the real solution is more funding ie higher fees. Not quite the way I see it.
My card has apparently been expedited and will be sent out this week. I say, yippee.. they have solved 1/15000 th of the problem. Not really but its a start.
Also spoke to the lead council and EVP of the ISRA. Not sure there's any teeth in that bite.
Also spoke to a newspaper reporter who might call me back on Monday or Tuesday. We'll see.

 

[Zundfolge]

So lemme get this straight.

If one day the state government decided to stop renewing FOID cards then everyone of those FOID card holders would instantly be Felons? Sounds like gun privileges ('cause you obviously have not rights there) could be revoked to everyone in the state at the whim of the criminal in the gov's office.


Jeebus! Where's Henry Bowman when you need him

 

[Kingcreek]

Not a felony for first offense-
Class A Misdemeaner.
Misuse or alteration of a FOID card IS a felony.
FOID system started in 1968. I don't know if there have been any legal challenges but I would certainly like to see it. The ISRA EVP/council asked me to keep him posted about my situation so I'll give him a call and also inquire bout this.

 

[Jeff White]

I have never been sent a FOID card renewal application. Not once, and I've had a FOID for 25 years at least....The law says the State Police are supposed to send notice that it's about to expire just like the Secretary of State does with your drivers license. I have know several other long time FOID holders who also have never seen a renewal application.

Several years ago Governor Edgar (I think the only honest one in my lifetime) issued an executive order making a bunch of expired ones valid to cover a hunting season because of a backlog like you describe.

I heard that after the beginning of the Instant Check Program in Illinois (we had it a few years before most of the country) that the director of the State Police proposed doing away with the FOID card...the instant check accomplished the same thing at point of sale. But that idea went no where with a Republican governor and State Senate...

Jeff