Illinois folks, a ? about the FOID card

[spyder1911]

I am not sure how the President of the US would be able to change laws specific to Illinois when the law was made by the State of Illinois???...Might want to brush up on that High School Government class

And I am waiting on my FOID card too. It's been 28 days since my check was cashed. Illinois sucks.

 

[SeanSw]

It has been 47 days since my significant other mailed her application. They still haven't cashed the check.

 

[Autolycus]

Perhaps a lawsuit for violation of your civil rights is in order? You are not legally able to purchase a firearm and the state is the reason behind that. I would name the Illinois State Police, their commissioner, the staff in the FOID office, and the governor for violation of your second amendment rights. THe state says they can issue them in 30 days and it cannot them the state should either change the law to allow more time or disband the FOID program.

 

[Paints-n-cows]

Foid

I also heard a deal on when you pay the state with a check. It seems that they only cash them one day a month....thats right, one day a month they send the checks to the bank to get cashed.

If you pay with a money order, it goes through right away.

BTW, ISP2605, I checked and I originally said 2006 but I was in error, it was 2005. Yes, I understand the name indexes (I am an ex-PO) but when it takes that long just to process for an initial check, that is too long. It was actually longer than the 30 days allowed by law. The best part is that we used to run them through the MCTs in our units. If we needed further clarification, dispatch would send request the info and we still had it within our 1-hour "stop-and-talk". What takes people who aren't trying to answer calls for service so long to do?

And the FOID is a no-longer necessary function. Since the instant background checks have been in place (Thank you Sarah Brady), there is an instant database for all listed felons.

Oh and just so that all people know, the actual federal legislation provides that a background check information is destroyed as soon as it is done....HOWEVER, there is no penalty for any law enforcement officer/agency if is not destroyed. What this means is that everytime you are run through the system, the record can be retained under no penalty by the agency or agencies contacted.

 

[isp2605]

The best part is that we used to run them through the MCTs in our units. If we needed further clarification, dispatch would send request the info and we still had it within our 1-hour "stop-and-talk".

Sorry but it's not the same as doing an MDT records check. If your name gets a soundex hit on someone who has been arrested and/or convicted then it takes contacting the courts to determine the status of that arrest/conviction and obtaining records to determine if the app and the soundex are one in the same. You don't get that from a 1 hr wait on an MDT. BTDT, I know the difference, and it's a major difference between the 2.

it was 2005.

2005 was when all the contractual people were let go. FOID went from over 50 people to 6. 6 people to do the same work that 50+ were doing before. In addition, you admitted you sent your app in during the fall which as I've stated previously, FOID is swamped by people waiting until the last minute, or later until their cards are expired, to send in their renewal. If you wait until there's the rush then expect to stand in line. It's no difference than any other business. If you go at the busy time of day or year then you can expect a whole lot of people ahead of you in line. If you go to McDonalds at lunch time then expect to wait in line. The difference it tho McDonalds gets to hire additional people at lunch time to handle the rush, the state doesn't.

Next time don't wait until 2 weeks before your card expires.

 

[larryh1108]

FOID info

The law states that once they cash your check, they have 30 days to decide you CANNOT possess a FOID card or they must issue one. Of course, that does not take into account processing the paperwork to get it done. In March of this year it was 37 days to the day I mailed it to the day it was in my hands.

As for those who feel any president will try to change the gun laws or ban them, I guess no one paid attention to the recent Supreme Court ruling in favor of the 2nd Amendment in Washington D.C. There is not an elected president out there dumb enough to try to tackle the current gun laws with the recent ruling and the 2nd Amendment now in place. It would be political suicide and would fail. We have many larger, more pressing needs today than trying to go against 2 such powerful instances in place. If Obama wanted to change Illinois laws as stated here, don't you think he'd do it as a state representative instead of the President?

Previous illegal gun laws have begun to topple nationwide since the SC ruling and will only get better for us. Challenges are being filed daily and it's only a matter of time for cities like Chicago to have their unlawful laws repealed. They will choose the cheaper route of just changing them to the bare legal state instead of the currently illegal laws now in place. It will cost too much to fight to keep these wrong laws in place. We won a huge battle with this ruling and finding a politician dumb enough to challenge this ruling will be hard but as we all know there are a ton of dumb politicians out there.

 

[Paints-n-cows]

ISP2605,

So what you are saying is that since I was born in late summer, that Illinois has the right to make me illegal by virtue of them stalling around and being unable to fulfill their obligations? 87 days is too long.period.

I notice that there is no comment on the subject of the state violating the law. Or the fact that their inability to handle the day-to-day activities causing innocent law-abiding citizens to become law breakers.

I understand what they were trying to do with the FOID. It gave the on-the-street officer a way to determine if the individual possessing the firearm was lawful. However, one basic premise was lost...instead of someone being an innocent, this law/FOID presumes that anyone that doesn't have the proper paperwork filled out with the state is improperly in control of a firearm. This would also constitute a violation of Federal law which is punishable with up to 10 years in a Federal institution if he/she is a convicted felon.

What we are seeing is huge lack of proper control of funding within the state structure. Hunting license fees that are by law protected from being used for other purposes are now being raided. The state parks are closing even though the amount of revenue to run them has been on a steady increase.

Since you obviously are connected with the FOID dept somehow, perhaps you can enlighten us as to how many applications are processed each day, week, month or year? At $5 a clip (now $10), how much revenue is generated? What are the salaries of those individuals that process them? What other type of expenditures are incurred by the staff?

And btw, on our MCTs, we had court dispositions...but then that was in a state that when you bought the first firearm and were entered into the system, all you had to do was provide your "blue card", checked against the database and walked out the door.

No "cooling down" period. If the person showed the premeditation to become angry, upset, etc., get in a vehicle, drive to a gun store, select an item, purchase it, drive back to wherever they originally were, and commit a crime...that was called premeditation. Too many rational decisions were made between the first thought and the actual act to be a spur-of-the-moment crime. 24 minutes or 24 hours...there is no difference

This was not meant to start a pissing contest but there are legitimate complaints by the citizens about the FOID. With the...ahem...governor screwing with everything else in this state, maybe some of the resources and superfulous crap (like the FOID) need to be disposed of. Maybe we should see if Blago would just go north and stay there since he hasn't stayed in the house that we provide for him in Springfield. That would save us over $4K a week (according to the Journal Register).

 

[isp2605]

(triple tap)

 

[isp2605]

So what you are saying is that since I was born in late summer, that Illinois has the right to make me illegal by virtue of them stalling around and being unable to fulfill their obligations? 87 days is too long.period.

I was born in Oct. I know that fall is the time when the backlog happens. I sent my renewal in during Aug as soon as I got my renewal notice. It took 33 days to get to me this year.
What I'm saying is you waited until 2 weeks until your card expired and then decided to send it in. Send in your app earlier next time.

I notice that there is no comment on the subject of the state violating the law.

What I notice is you apparently haven't read my earlier posts. I addressed it. What I also notice is you haven't read the law that you claim has been violated. larryh explained it. Before you swallow the "violated the law" part you really ought to read it and, even more, understand it. If you have the former then you clearly don't the latter.

What we are seeing is huge lack of proper control of funding within the state structure. Hunting license fees that are by law protected from being used for other purposes are now being raided. The state parks are closing even though the amount of revenue to run them has been on a steady increase.

You've definitely got some issues you feels strongly about and with the ones above I don't disagree. However, the fact remains that none of that has anything to do with the topic being discussed. You need to take those up with your legislator.

Since you obviously are connected with the FOID dept somehow, perhaps you can enlighten us as to how many applications are processed each day, week, month or year?

I was not "connected with the FOID dept". I was a commander and we got constant briefs on what happens around the agency.
You question is also obvious that you haven't read the threads. I've answered that. Before you comment you really should read the posts. It prevents others from having to repeat themselves and it at least makes you appear you know what you're talking about before you jump in.

At $5 a clip (now $10), how much revenue is generated

First, there was no fee increase. If you had read the law and knew what you were talking about, which with every one of your posts it shows you haven't and you don't, then you would know the $10 fee is for 10 years where the $5 fee was for 5 years. Again, if you had read the statute then you would have learned 1) the change was made by the legislature and 2) you would learn where the fees go.

What are the salaries of those individuals that process them

I have no idea what employees are paid. If that is such a burning issue for you then do a FOI and ask. However, I can tell you that when the FOID bureau was staffed by the contractual workers they were making in the neighborhood of $8 per hour and they did not get any benefits such as retirement, health, etc. They were not ISP employees and were contracted thru hiring agencies.

What other type of expenditures are incurred by the staff?

Ask that in your FOI request. However, you'll have to be a lot more specific than you have been. With the question above you're asking about copying paper, pens, pencils, desks, etc. But if that is a major concern of yours then mention it in your FOI.

And btw, on our MCTs, we had court dispositions...

What did you do when you got a CQH back that only showed arrests and no dispositions? There are a whole lot more of those responses than with dispos. Had you really a good understanding of what's involved in CQHs then you would know that a lot of time dispos don't get entered in CQH records. You would also know that what is on those CQH records are not complete nor do they tell the story of the arrest. You might get a response showing a battery charge but is that felony, misdemeanor, or domestic violence. 2 of those are disqualifiers but you can't determine that from a CQH. You really don't have any idea what these involve do you and it's clear you don't have any idea what I'm talking about when I mention "soundex" responses.

With the...ahem...governor screwing with everything else in this state, maybe some of the resources and superfulous crap (like the FOID) need to be disposed of.

Then take it up with your state legislator. What you are whining about has nothing to do with FOID or the ISP. Those are state statutes you are crying about. Try sticking to the topic. You've got issues but so far either your concerns are uninformed or have nothing to do with FOID.

 

[red_cedar]

I recently renewed my foid card.
I was a bit surprised when they ( Illinois State Police ) did not use the photo I sent with the application, but used my drivers license picture that I did not send in.??
Anyway I am good to go for the next 10 years.

 

[Paints-n-cows]

ISP2605

I'm glad to hear that you were a commander and you can defend the FOID with such authority as someone on high.

And before you start spouting off about people you don't the history of, maybe you need to get out of your little corner of the world and find out how a real metropolitan police department that supported its member and communities works. Not all have as limited resources and information available as you may have had during your tour of duty.

With your attitude, its no wonder you were a "commander".

I'm done with this discussion. The FOID is a bad idea. The law is fairly simple to read and understand. It doesn't take a law degree, just common sense.

 

[Jeff White]

And before you start spouting off about people you don't the history of, maybe you need to get out of your little corner of the world and find out how a real metropolitan police department that supported its member and communities works. Not all have as limited resources and information available as you may have had during your tour of duty.

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us about what metropolitan PD you worked for that was so high speed that they had court disposition updates in their criminal history files from all over the country that even the FBI doesn't have in their criminal history database? I know who ISP2605 is. I don't have any idea who you are.

Frankly your posts make me wonder if you've ever seen a criminal history file either on an MDC or printed out at dispatch. Maybe you had a local database that had your own local court info on it, but there is no way using NCIC as your starting point you could get enough information on convictions and dispositions from every court in the state much less the country to process something like a FOID card instantaneously. If you don't believe me, just do a search here on THR for NICS delays and see how many instant checks are delayed.

Frankly I'm just a little tired of the conspiracy theorists blaming the ISP for the FOID problems. I was told by a trooper I used to work with that when Illinois started it's instant check program the ISP director proposed doing away with the FOID because it was redundant. I don't know if it's true or not, but seeing how it was during the Edgar administration I tend to believe it.

FOID problems lie with the legislature and governor's office. The ISP has always tried it's best to keep up with the program. As for the issues with suddenly getting a FOID issued after contacting a legislator, has anyone here ever known a large government agency that didn't have someone assigned to run down inquiries by members of the legislature? Don't you think it's standard procedure to go ahead and issue it when the inquiry is made if it's legal to or to tell the legislator why it wasn't issued. It always worked that way in the military and just about every govt agency I have heard of.

Jeff

 

[isp2605]

I'm glad to hear that you were a commander and you can defend the FOID with such authority as someone on high.

You don't have a clue about my career. I did all of my career was in ops except for the 6 months I commanded our R&D. I spent my time in the trenches, including working cases in some of the worst parts of Chicagoland and Metro-East, including working UC in those places. I worked with "metropolitan" agencies all over IL and quite a few in other states. The only reason I provided the info as a commander was to explain to you that, unlike being an "ex-PO", I was in a position to have the 1st hand accurate info.
Being a "ex-PO" doesn't mean anything. In fact, I haven't heard of anyone on the job refer to themselves as "ex-PO". "LEO" is the term. Being an "ex" also denotes you didn't spend very much time in the career field if at all. Sounds like, even giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you were at best in it for a very short time and not as a full time LEO. The nation is full of "ex-POs" who were ill-trained, under-trained, or lack any training and don't have a clue about how LE operates. Few LEOs on the street really understand the workings of their own dept let alone the big world out there. Yet they blow smoke and try to impress the uninformed by spouting "ex-PO" status as if they think they know what's going on. They don't know enough to know what they don't know simply because they haven't been in positions to have the info.
What I'm doing is correcting the inaccuracies and out right falsehoods spread by those who try to blow smoke like they know what they are talking about. To those of us who have really been involved in the nuts and bolts of it we can tell someone who is blowing smoke. "ex-PO" is blowing smoke, particularly when confronted they start deflecting the topic to hunting license funds being diverted by the governor, state parks being closed, governor not living in the mansion, etc. That just shows you were called on your "ex-PO" knowledge and when it's obvious you've been found out you change the topic to something completely unrelated. Had you been a real "ex-PO" with any kind of investigative training you would see that tactic as typical of those caught in a lie and trying to change the subject to keep from being pinned further by their statements.

And before you start spouting off about people you don't the history of, maybe you need to get out of your little corner of the world and find out how a real metropolitan police department that supported its member and communities works. Not all have as limited resources and information available as you may have had during your tour of duty.

Limited resources? You don't have a clue. Anyone who talks "MDT" is the one with "limited resources". You might want to get with modern technology. Your "ex-PO" knowledge, or more accurately lack of knowledge, is showing.
If you worked for any LEA in IL you used ISP resources. It doesn't matter what LEA you were with. In fact, even if you were a LEO from out of state and you ran any inquiry into IL you used ISP resources without even knowing it.
Your true self and lack of knowledge is showing. You might be able to fool someone to them on here who aren't involved in the LE field but to those who are then your true self is showing.

 

[Ryan250]

I found this thread while searching Google for reasons as to why my FOID has been taking over 2 months to get here.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has had trouble with this disgusting system. Horrible horrible horrible.

I will be calling my represenative and bitching today, right after I tear a new ******* in those people handling my FOID card.



You need to start taking action and letting your voice be heard.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/contacts/contacts.cfm

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?State=IL

 

[Paints-n-cows]

Well, I will defer to better people than I. Someone has a HUGE ego problem.

This thread started about FOIDs and has digressed into one former/present ISP individual talking about people that he has never had contact with and casting disparaging remarks about their background. The last poster clearly stated what I was trying to get across. If you used the renewal form that mailed to him within 60 days of the expiration of old FOID card, he is now in violation of the law by possessing firearms without it. Illinois is also in violation of the law. The poster can go jail and have his weapons seized. Nothing will happen to the bureaucrats that didn't abide by the law and made him a lawbreaker though.

An ex-PO means former police officer. An ex-LEO implies anyone that has responsibilities that require enforcement of the law...from meter maid to dog catcher to police officer to tac ops. Just because your terminology isn't used doesn't make it wrong...just different. And as far as my old department, it was not in Illinois. There is too many politics here for me.

I have never said anything about the ISP at all. I just don't like being bullied by some know-it-all that tries to sound like he is an authority on everything having to do will Illinois law.

If you were in charge of that type of unit in Chicago metro area, then that is something of significance but to be honest about it, it doesn't matter to me. Any officer that goes to work every morning and doesn't know whether he is giong to make it home at night has my support.

You are correct. The database to explore every optional felony charge does not exist. There are too many little podunk towns/counties/municipalities that still have pen-and-paper records that have never been entered into any system.

What I was referring to was on a stop-and-talk. If you get a NCIC hit on someone and needed clarification, you had dispatch TELEX the issuing authority for clarification. Perhaps you do it differently but that is how we did it. As far as actual criminal history, I don't recall ever having the authority to do anything like that just because of a traffic stop with a weapon in the vehicle.

As far an actual database for those charges, the Brady Bill premise was to ensure funding for that to occur. Did it happen, probably not. The one that does exist is spotty at best. Interestingly enough, it is the same one that is used during the extensive background check conducted during the FOID application process.

The only plausible use for the FOID is that when an officer stops someone in possession of firearm, that he/she will know that within the last 5 years (or now 10 years), a thorough background check was conducted. If that person has committed a crime in another state or province, odds are that the average Joe Cop won't have any idea. In Illinois, perhaps but not unless the state where the offense occurred is in a reciprocal agreement with whatever database Illinois uses.

Other states that I am familiar with, do something similar without the issued card. Once you are initially entered in the system, you are in there without the aggravation of carrying a card with you. The FOID card is just another bureaucratic device that is truly redundant that Illinois has burdened the responsible gun owner with.

One last and final thought, ISP2605 you state that you birthday is in October and you apply when you get your renewal application 60 days before expiration. In my case, it took 87 days to get it back. You would have been in violation of the law had yours taken as long. How does that make you feel now?

 

[isp2605]

Off topic? Who asked about employees salaries, office expenses, revenue generated?
Who asked redundant questions that had already been answered and would have seen that had they bothered to read previous posts? Who got off on a ranting about closing state parks and the governor not living in the mansion?
What do I think? I think you still haven't read the FOID law. But if you have then you have shown you don't understand it. If you aren't capable of understanding statute language then read the first line of larryh's response since he did a good job of summarizing the part of the FOID statute that you either haven't read or don't understand.
What else do I think? I think you tried blowing smoke about something you don't have a clue about, got caught, and tried deflecting the topic to something hoping someone would jump on it and you wouldn't have to answer questions about statements you made where you showed you didn't have a clue. That was very obvious from your rantings about the governor which has nothing to do with FOID or the topic. Any trained investigator knows that such tactics are the methods of those caught and pinned in a corner and instead of addressing the issues tries to deflect the discussion to something else hoping they won't have to cover their misstatements.
Those are what I think since you asked. But here's what I know. I know you don't have a clue about getting dispos for backgrounds if you thinka telex is sufficient for such matters. Once again you've shown your very limited knowledge of what is required. What you are talking about is preliminary responses the LEO on the road gets. Those are not admissible in court. You also show you haven't a clue about soundex hits and knowing what work goes into getting court accepted legal documentaion proving whether the Joe Jones on the app is the same as the Joe Jones, Joe Johnes, Jose Jonas, etc on the hit in Podunkville in another state. You've shown your lack of knowledge of that by stating that a telex is all that is needed.
Once again, being an 'ex-PO' doesn't mean a thing if that 'ex-PO' doesn't have a clue about the topic. There are a whole lot of untrained, ill-trained, and complete lack of trained 'ex-POs', including those from "real metropolitan police department".