Ill-conceived safety rule?

[ctdonath]

Cooper is very specific about "all guns are always loaded" and has addressed it (Google "cooper's commentaries" and related terms). He is trying to stay away from the "let's pretend" wink-and-nod terminology of "treat every gun..." and replaces it with an imperative: it's a gun, it's dangerous, and it's loaded unless you have personally and immediately checked it yourself.

 

[Berek]

use 100mpg tape and tape them all together in one tall stack.

Is that city or highway?

Sorry.. had to. I feel that as long as one is sure there is nothing/no one around and the object pointed at is sufficient to stop a bullet, what's the problem? As I stated previously, I think the intent was "No Horseplay. Guns Aren't toys." Oh well...

Berek

 

[Majic]

The four rules are simple, to the point, and in plain everyday english. If you wish to complicate them then you create your own headache.

 

[twency]

it's a gun, it's dangerous, and it's loaded unless you have personally and immediately checked it yourself.

Lying to myself doesn't do you or me any good. If it's not loaded, it's not loaded. No amount of parsing the phrase "it is loaded" can change the fact that if it isn't loaded, it isn't loaded.

I vote for the "as if" variation. It's honest, and it's good advice.

Perhaps there should be a poll on this?
_____________________
-twency

 

[Lucky]

Thanks for posting the full rules, my favorite is the trigger finger one.

Sorry if my post sounded picky, I didn't mean it to. Now that I understand the nature of the rules, it makes more sense. They were made to be a little over-the-top so that even the lowest common denominator would get them, and the muzzle direction only applies when you're hadling the firearm. Good to know, thanks.

In Canada you have to learn not 4 rules, but 9! Probably because bureaucrats get paid by the word.

 

[grimlock]

In Canada you have to learn not 4 rules, but 9! Probably because bureaucrats get paid by the word.

That metric system'll getcha every time.

 

[orionengnr]

the dude from NY said they have ten...

Probably has to do with Chuckie and Hillary. If it was up to them, there'd be 300+ rules, you'd have to memorize and recite them all each time you bought a pistol, and the rules would change weekly!

Oh, and where do I get 100 mpg tape? If I put some on my car will it get, you know...

 

[Lucky]

There's ACTS and PROVE. Some rules are redundant, but some group was paid to make acronyms, so they made acronyms.

Assume firarm loaded, Control muzzle direction at all times, Trigger finger off and out of guard, See it's unloaded and prove its safe; Point firearm in safest available direction, remove all cartridges, observe the chamber, verify the feedbath, examine the bore.

 

[Firethorn]

I teach Hunter Education and the 10 Commandments of Shooting Safety are listed as follows:

1. Treat every firearm with the same respect due a loaded firearm.
2. Control the direction fo your firearm's muzzle. Carry your firearm safely, keeping the safety on until ready to shoot. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. Identify your target and what is beyond it. Know the identifying features of the game you hunt.
4. Be sure the barrel and action are clear of obstructions and that you have only ammunition of the proper size for the firearm you are carrying.
5. Unload firearms when not in use. Leave the actions open. Firearms should be carried empty in case to and from shooting areas.
6. Never point a firearm at anything you do not want to shoot. Avoid all horseplay with a firearm.
7. Never climb a fence or tree, or jump a ditch or log, with a loaded firearm. Never pull a firearm toward you by the muzzle.
8. Never shoot a bullet at a flat, hard surface or water. During target practice, be sure your back stop is adequate.
9. Store firearms and ammunition seperately beyond the reach of children and careless adults.
10. Avoid alcoholic beverages or other mood altering drugs before or while shooting.

I believe what they are trying to say in #6 is that cowboys and indians with actual firearms would be a no no. The above list is verbatim from the 11th edition Hunter Education Northeast Region Manual used by NYS DEC Hunter Education.

Berek

PS: Sorry for the length... I guess I tend to ramble. And did you know...

The problem I have with these is that they're geared for a hunter, not a person looking for self defense.

For example, I 'violate' rules 5, 7, and 9(sorta) regularly. My gun is always loaded and on me. While gun and ammunition are still together, it's still locked up if it's not on me.

Number 4 is more of a maintenance rule, and as such should be down the list. Number 8 is a subset of number 3.

Number 10 is just a life rule.

edit: I do have multiple firearms. I carry one of them regularly. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Archangel]

Cooper is very specific about "all guns are always loaded" and has addressed it (Google "cooper's commentaries" and related terms). He is trying to stay away from the "let's pretend" wink-and-nod terminology of "treat every gun..." and replaces it with an imperative: it's a gun, it's dangerous, and it's loaded unless you have personally and immediately checked it yourself.

If he wants to stay away from "let's pretend" wink-and-nod rules, he might try one that doesn't require a google search to discover what it is that the rule is actually telling you to do.

Also, "All guns are always loaded" is not an imperative. An imperative is a command or order that tells you what to do, and in some cases when to do it and what to do it to. Cooper's Rule 1 does none of those things.

Anyway, a google search turned up the following:

RULE 1
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again.

So, if I personally unload a gun, I can then disregard rule one entirely? I can treat an unloaded gun as carelessly as I want? (Actually, no, since rule one tells you nothing about how to treat any gun.)

1. All guns are always loaded.

An unloaded gun is useless, and no one should ever assume that any piece he may see or touch is not ready to fire. Would that we would never again hear the plaintive wail, "I didn't know it was loaded!" Of course, it was loaded. That is why it exists. Treat it so!

Parse through that to look for a directive (or an imperative, if you prefer that term) and all you find is "Treat it so!" Treat what how? Treat <the gun> <like it is loaded>. Sound familiar?

We were panned recently by a reader who claimed that of our four rules, Rule 1 is not a rule but rather a statement. "All guns are always loaded" is, as our man said, not a guide to conduct, but rather a statement of condition. The criticism is correct, but we are not going to change our rules on that account. We think that "treat all guns as if they were loaded" implies with the "as if" qualification a dangerous choice of assumptions. The four basic rules of safety may not be structurally perfect, but we intend to leave them the way they are.

Even the Colonel admits that his rule is not a rule but a statement, he just won't change it.

While it is true that "treat all guns as if they were loaded" does imply that a gun can in fact be in an unloaded state, the "as if" is not a qualifiaction, nor does it allow for any choices or assumptions. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded" implies that you must treat all guns as if they were loaded regardless of whether they are loaded or not. To do otherwise is to violate the rule.

 

[Farnham]

1. All guns are always loaded...especially in my house.

2. Keep your booger hook off the bang switch. (to paraphrase someone here)

Seems simple enough to me.

S/F

Farnham