I'm a horrible handgun shooter

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spwenger wins the thread :)

however left and right misses tend to be related to trigger flinch... or you pulling the gun barrel left or right when you pull the trigger..

there are lots of things to create misses, however the most common is recoil anticipation, and trigger flinching..

i cant tell you how many people have asked me to move zeroed sights left or right... either way i refuse to move them

if you move the sights left or right to compensate for your trigger control well lack thereof.. the farther and farther you are attempting to shoot you will be missing at greater and greater amounts... eventually you will have no idea where your bullet actually went and thats not very safe... you could think your safe when shooting and actually not be...
 
The best advice I received when originally working out my pistol skills was "don't just look at the front sight, look at it as if you were trying to read something off it"

My accuracy improved remarkably. GL.
 
when i was learning how to shoot i was taught defensive shooting i was instructed not to even bother looking at the sights (yes you have to learn first with sights)

because in a defense situation odds are you wont have time to actually line your shot up with sights.... you have time to point and click... so if you really want to be a defensive shooter you should concentrate solely on the target the sights should end up being blurry... focus on what your aiming at simple as that (but that is directed at defensive shooting not bullseye shooting)
 
I started out the wrong way. I started large instead of small for starters, getting a .357 as my first real pistol. Up until then, I had only shot a Daisy BB pistol. Night and day, of course.

However, something clicked on day when I was practicing. I had department qualifications coming up. At that time my 'reloading' equipment was a Lee Loader, one of those one cartridge at a time using a hammer kits. I also had no real idea of powder measuring, so I did not want to load too much.

As it was, they were barely coming out of the barrel it seemed, and some keyholed their way to the target (indoor range). I was loading 148 gr wadcutters in .38 Special. I shot 150 of them.

The next day, I came in second on the department (no, it was a department of 16 and not 2 :rolleyes:) and never looked back.
It's all in the practice. I couldn't hit at all and BAM, all of a sudden, I could.

The Doc is out now. :cool:
 
I had some trouble at first with handguns. Like others have said, a fresh pair of eyes can make all of the difference. My Grandfather helped me considerably in one range session. He isn't "qualified" in the traditional sense of the word, but decades of experience count for something. Turns out I had too much finger on the trigger and an awkward grip. Little details can trip you up.

But hey, don't feel bad. Surely your handgunning skills aren't nearly as bad as my clay breaking skills :eek:.
 
Little nit-picky things can make a big difference in shooting a pistol. When I first started out, I had a problem where I shot to the left. Way to the left. Like shooting at a 9" paper plate at seven yards, I'd be lucky to nick the far left edge. I finally figured it out. I was just using the very tip of my finger to squeeze the trigger. I found that if I wrapped my finger around the trigger as much as I could, my shots would fly true. Who'd have thought?

Also, start out at a closer range. 25 yards is crap for learning and building confidence.
 
chute2thrill, I highly recommend "Shooting Missology" from Tactical Response Gear if you want to improve your handgun shooting. Myself and some friends of mine got a copy on someone's recommendation and I have noticed a remarkable improvement over everyone's shooting skills since watching this DVD. (I'm not affiliated with the folks that make this video, it's just an excellent resource for anyone who wants to improve their shooting ability with a pistol).
 
What spwenger says makes sense to me. I've been much more of a rifle shooter all my life, and have never been a crack shot with a pistol, but I own a lot of them, and I find if I put some effort into it I can get pretty good.

I have shot 22 handguns far more than anything else, but they give me fits too sometimes, but really it's because I'm used to rifle-like accuracy. But recently I've been practicing with a 40 year old 357 blackhawk that I've had, but haven't shot much before. A few of the things I've found...

1: the weight and length of the gun makes a difference to me. I have a N frame s&w 357 with a 8" barrel and I can shoot that very well. It's big and heavy. In the beginning, I wasn't as proficient with the BH with the 6.5" barrel, but I've gotten there now. The smaller the gun, the less proficient I am with it from the get go.

2: The grips make a big difference to me. I've used 3 different types of grips on the blackhawk. Right now I have some Herret's shooting stars on it, and I'm better with those than the others I've tried. Not through experimenting though...

3: The way I hold it makes a difference. I know how to shoot, but a lot of times with the 357 I hold it too loosely and my shot goes high. I have to make myself hold firmly without pushing my shot low (if that makes sense)

This morning, my son and I were shooting at a 25 yard range, and we were shooting 22 pistols at golf balls on the berm. I could hit maybe 1 or 2 times out of six shots at best. I picked up my 357 with full power 357 loads and hit the golf ball 3 times in a row, and the fourth shot was a foot or more high because I didn't have a firm enough grip. Shot a couple more cylinders and got at least 3 hits per cylinder. (shooting sitting down with my elbows on the bench) I'm tickled with that kind of accuracy, but at the same time, any little mistake on my part could cause a big miss. They are not near as forgiving as a rifle.

Another thing - My blackhawk is more accurate with 357 magnums than it is with 38's
 
The first principle of accurate shooting is trigger control: a smooth, press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving. Maintain your focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off nor try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."

By keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking. But if you try to make the shot break at that one instant in time when everything seem steady and aligned, you usually wind up jerking the trigger. Of course the gun will wobble some on the target. Try not to worry about the wobble and don’t worry about trying to keep the sight aligned on a single point. Just let the front sight be somewhere in a small, imaginary box in the center of the target.

Also, work on follow through. Be aware of where on the target the front sight is as the shot breaks and watch the front sight lift off that point as the gun recoils – all the time maintaining focus on the front sight.

Also, while practice in very important, remember that practice doesn’t make perfect. It’s “PERFECT practice makes perfect.” More frequent practice shooting fewer rounds, but concentrating hard on what you’re doing, will be more productive than less frequent, higher round count practice.

Practice deliberately, making every shot count, to program good habits and muscle memory. Dry practice is very helpful. You just want to triple check that the gun is not loaded, and there should be no ammunition anywhere around. When engaging in dry practice, religiously follow Rule 2 - Never Let Your Muzzle Cover Anything You Are Not Willing To Destroy." As you dry fire, you want to reach the point where you can't see any movement of the sight as the sear releases and the hammer falls.

With regard to using the sights in defensive shooting, as Clint Smith wrote in the January/February 2008 American Handgunner:

"It's alway argued that in a fight shooters will not look at their sights. I strongly agree -- if no one has ever taught them otherwise. To say that people don't, or won't, look at their sights is wrong. People have, they will in the future, and they'll hit the...target too. The correct alignment of the sights is a learnable skill. Is a textbook perfect sight picture available in every fight? Of course not....In fairness, the sights are only part of the issue -- the jerked on trigger doesn't improve anything."

Even when one has been taught to look at the sights, how much has he actually practiced quickly seeing the adequate sight picture and acting reflexively, without conscious thought, on the rough sight picture? As another trainer, Bennie Cooley, once told me, "It's not that I shoot quicker than you do. It's that I see quicker." One can learn to use the sights very, very quickly. And of course, at very close distances, point shooting makes sense.

In any case, whether you hold the gun with one hand or two, and whether you use the sights or point shooting techniques to direct the muzzle of the gun in line with the particular part of the target you want to hit, if you don't have trigger control, your muzzle will not be in line with the part of the target you want to hit when the bullet leaves the barrel of your gun -- and you will miss. But if you have controlled the trigger properly, you will hit.

And for some instructions on proper grip, check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQgLmQl1zDw (in fact, everything that shootingcoach has on YouTube is worthwhile.)

Finally, some instruction is always a good idea. I try to take classes from time to time; and I always learn something new.

Think: front sight, press, surprise.
 
Thanks again everyone for all the advise.. I love THR!!

What I usually shoot at is pop cans around 10 yards or so with my buddies glock 19 9mm(I don't own any handguns myself)... I'll be able to hit about once every 3-4 shots... fiddletown I believe what you are talking about with trigger jerk is exactly my problem.. I don't have the steadiest grip with a handgun and slowly pulling the trigger seems to make me wobble a bit.. So when I finally do get the perfect sight picture and I think I have the trigger back far enough I'll pull the trigger with authority for the rest of the way fairly quickly to try and be sure i'm pulling the trigger while on target.... Its been very frustrating as all of you can imagine... This is the best explanation of what i'm doing wrong that I can think of based on your responses..
 
chute also you can try relaxing your hands a bit alot of people put a "death" grip on the gun you need to have a secure grip but if you squeeze to tight you can over stress the muscles and that can be a problem... also try pulling the trigger so slowly that you do not know when its going to go off ... im very confident that the input in this thread will help alot
 
Thanks hotshot... I just watched that youtube video in fiddletowns post and tried some dry firing with my lovely crosman air pistol with the 20 lb trigger and I discovered I do put a death grip on... The vid also says to keep my thumbs from actually holding the gun and just rest them on the grip and that seems to help alot with keeping the gun steady as well... Jeez.. What more could I have been doing wrong!! Can't wait to actually go shooting!!
 
shooting is not a born skill... everyone has to learn how to do it!


i had to learn and i was quite stubborn when i started you can ask my teacher (he now works for me)
 
chute2thrill said:
...I discovered I do put a death grip on... The vid also says to keep my thumbs from actually holding the gun and just rest them on the grip and that seems to help alot with keeping the gun steady as well...
Holding the gun, or anything, too tightly causes muscular tremors. You want to hold the gun firmly, but not so tightly that you shake. Try holding the gun so tight that you shake, and then back off until it settles down. Usually, that's about right.

And remember: front sight, press, surprise.
 
Worry not... admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery. ;)

I struggled too when I switched from rifles to pistols (I was about 8 years old), but my pops worked with me on my trigger technique. Pistols are very sensitive to poor trigger work. I would recommend you dry fire your pistol a lot. Make sure you do not flinch at all as the trigger breaks. Flinching in anticipation of recoil seems to be our biggest enemy as new shooters.
 
Thank you to everyone again.. I'll probably revive this thread in a week or so to let you all know how much you've helped me.. Like i've said before.. I'm not bad at all with bb guns and .22 lr pistols, but reading up on the Ruger MkIII and the Browning Buckmark (the only .22 pistols i've shot) I've come to realize I was shooting a couple of the more accurate pistols so I may have spoiled myself.. Plus I'm guessing I don't like double action triggers at all.. I like a nice clean break on the trigger and having to squeeze and squeeze probably isn't a good thing for me to start on.. i.e. Glock...
 
I'm a rifleman. I only shoot pistols because a rifle is too hard to conceal. I'm pretty good with a rifle, and used to suck pretty bad with pistols.
In my personal experience (YMMV)
step 1 is: get a good quality pistol in a centerfire caliber. I like 9mm. I had a crappy 9mm for a while, and I became more accurate than the gun. I bought a good pistol for a few more bucks, and instantly I shot at least a little better.

Step 2: get some training. whether you take a class, or (like me) run into the right people at the range (a few LEO pistol instructors). I've gotten advice in just the last few months from a few old guys at the range that has taken my groups from 6-8in at 20ft down to 2-3in at 40 ft. I still need to take a class, but I'm much more confident in my ability to hit the bad guy.

Step 3: put a lot of lead downrange. Focus on your technique and shoot a lot. I usually shoot a minimum of 150rds a week.

I'm no professional, but these are the things that helped me dramatically. hope it helps.
 
Colinthepilot.. You have lived my future.. Me and my buddy are planning to get a membership at our local range and, while we can not afford an official trainer, we do live in a nice small town with responsible gun owners and a very nice range.. So with any luck I'm sure we'll stumble upon some unlucky sap who's willing to show a couple of young punks how to shoot right!! :)

What i've noticed is handgun shooting is extremely diffrent from rifle shooting.. It seems many of us are extremly proficient with our rifle from just the simple instruction "hold it tight in to your shoulder, line up the sights and squeeze the trigger, Don't pull it!!.." but shooting a handgun well requires some sort of learning.. Be it from a teacher, video, magazine, or internet forum :) ..
 
Hope you dont mind the advice but this is something that really helped my brother and I shoot a lot better and handle recoil.

He came here and we shot together one day and we tried something I read in a magazine once I think. Im not fully sure where I first heard it. But it helps control the firearm and the recoil with isometrics (using joints and muscles together to create a stablizing force).

If you hold the handgun with your right hand and with elbow straight and locked, use your arm to PUSH forward . Then you cup your support hand underneath your right hand with elbow bent and you PULL towards yourself with your support hand (reverse if left handed). Now you have a good isometric pressure going to support your handgun recoil. And your trigger finger is free to move without tension or restrictions.

This push/pull force creates a much more stable shooting platform and should help with recoil and flinch.

This helped us A LOT, was easy to do, and showed immediate results. Maybe it might help others also.
 
Well, personally, I'm not a big fan of the "cup and saucer" grip described by vicdotcom. I prefer a modified Weaver (Chapman) or modern isosceles (which is what Luper/shooting coach teaches -- in fact, these days I'm leaning toward the modern isosceles).

For a good discussion of what those terms mean and some good general shooting information, check out http://www.corneredcat.com. You'll find material on grip and stance by going to the table of contents and looking under "The Shooting Basics."
 
i think what your trying to describe vicdotcom is an isometric pressure grip however he is bit off with the style i would never personally lock my arms or do the cup and saucer technique but to each his own..

my reasoning behind not doing the locked elbows, is would you jump off a small flight of stairs and lock your knees? your trying to absorb recoil gently as opposed to with alot of force...

and the reason i dont cup and saucer it is the more grip surface you cover the more control of you have over the firearm.. not to mention if you have your elbow bent and aimed up it gives the gun a pivot point...

if you push your elbows out horizontally and then extend to almost full extension but not lock your elbows you will find alot better recoil managment!
 
took a new person shooting this past weekend, and she kept trying to fight the recoil. in her mind, she had to hold the pistol so that the muzzle wouldn't jump. well inevitable, the muzzle kept jumping and she was getting frustrated and not hitting anything.

after explaining that the gun is going to recoil no matter how strong you are, she finally stopped focusing on trying to fight the recoil and started focusing on the sights.

it sounds like you may be having the same problem. don't fight the gun. let the muzzle rise, and fall back down on target. as long as the sights are lined up and you don't move when it goes bang, you'll hit what you're aiming at
 
the difference between a novice shooter and an advanced shooter is not that there is no recoil, but the speed at which the barrel returns back down to the correct position for firing again
 
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