I'm afraid to pull the trigger now.

[The Taxidermist]

I just got into loading and have done some .223 with hornady fmj 55s. They shoot great. I have the rcbs rc supreme kit and the speer book.
Speer #14 manual.
I loaded up some for my 7mm-08 with 145 speer hot core sp on imr4350 starting at 44 gr increasing .5 gr to 46.5, where it started to compress the loads. The book does not state that its a compressed load and compared to the hornady it's over max pressure at 46 gr. speer says go to 48gr but again is not stating its a compressed load.
I found the same looking at loads for the .300 win mag. Speer has you start about a grain under where hornady would have you to stop. I understand bearing surfaces and such I think but comparing similar bullets, why are they so far off. I was going to go test some today but I'm a little on edge about it. Any insight?

 

[primalmu]

As you're testing the loads you should be checking for signs of overpressure anyway, so you shouldn't ever get to the point where you are shooting reloads that are too hot.

 

[The Taxidermist]

Yes but just the fact that speer has you start where hornady has you stop has me worried about the loads I made. I'm basically starting near hornady a max pressure if bullets are comparable.

 

[plmitch]

You should be fine. Be careful.

 

[Comrade Mike]

Usually when that happens the entire range from Hornady's lowest to speer's highest is "safe"

Your milage may vary. Pressure depends on so many factors just work up like you normally would and be careful.

 

[jwrowland77]

What does the powder mfg say? I always avg between about 5-6 different sources and call it good. I do know though, that if I want to go above that, I can do to having at least one source that is higher than others. Plus watching for over pressure signs.

Shoot'em and watch for signs.

 

[sage5907]

I've been shooting loads out of the Speer manual for many years and they are right on. You have to remember two things. First, you may be seating the bullet too deep which is forcing the bullet further than necessary into the powder chamber of the cartridge. That would compress the powder. Secondly, bullets made by different manufacturers do not generate the same pressure when fired, so comparing Speer bullets with Hornady bullets may not be a consistent comparison. The metal in the bullet jacket and the thickness of the jacket can affect pressures. I would guess the Speer bullet has a softer thicker jacket which would generate less pressure. The Speer hotcor bullet is a great bullet and I would use them without any reservations.

 

[buck460XVR]

I always avg between about 5-6 different sources and call it good.

^^^This. Having only two sources to reference, you may have the two extremes. Having three or more gives you a broader base to adjust. Some books tell you a load is compressed, some don't. Some powders shoot better compressed. For the most part, those powders that are compressed or nearly compressed in published load recipes are the safest, because you can't get enough powder in the case to blow up a gun in one shot. Some powders when first dropped into a case look like they fill the case, but after settling are not a compressed load. If they are published loads, shoot accurately and show no signs of over pressure in your firearm, they should be good to go.

 

[Steve C]

The book does not state that its a compressed load and compared to the hornady it's over max pressure at 46 gr. speer says go to 48gr but again is not stating its a compressed load.

While Speer doesn't indicate it to be a compressed load with H or Imr 4350 the Hodgdon on line data does. Hodgdon has 48.0grs as max with both powders using a 145gr bullet in the 7mm-08. Speer does however indicate the 48.0 gr max load of AA4350 is a compressed load.

 

[The Taxidermist]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm headed out now.

 

[sage5907]

One final note, if you have any questions about the amount of powder you scale is weighing put one of those 55 grain fmj 22 caliber bullets on the scale and see what it weighs. That will provide you a quick check on your scale accuracy. This is elementary but make sure you weigh every charge.

 

[jwrowland77]

One final note, if you have any questions about the amount of powder you scale is weighing put one of those 55 grain fmj 22 caliber bullets on the scale and see what it weighs. That will provide you a quick check on your scale accuracy. This is elementary but make sure you weigh every charge.

Not a great idea. Get yourself a good set of check weights.

I weighed all my "139gr" bullets from Hornady, and it ranged anywhere from 135 up to 143gr.

The only bullet I weighed that was actually the same was the 175gr Sierra MK. They all weighed 175gr.

Best bet though is to get some check weights.

 

[osteodoc08]

Make sure you're using IMR data for IMR 4350, AA data for AA4350 and Hodgdon data for H4350. They are all 4350 powders, but they are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE.

Hodgdon list 45-48gr of IMR 4350 with a 145gr SPR SP the 48gr noted as compressed in their online manual.

 

[ironworkerwill]

You should be fine at 46.5grns. I have shot that identical load @2.755 col with many different makes of brass. It shoots well! I doubt any ammount on IMR 4350 you get in the case will be enough to hurt any thing with 145 grn bullets. BUT! don't go beyond 48grains! As others have stated -WORK UP! You may need to check your case volume and seating depth. From my experience Winchester brass has the least capacity with Hornady being a close second.

 

[osteodoc08]

Forgot to mention. Go SHOOT!! You'll be fine and just watch for signs of high pressure.

 

[ATLDave]

No experience with that caliber, but, FWIW, when I'm looking for published "permission" for a hot load, I look at Speer. When I want "permission" to load light, Hornaday is my source! Neither source has ever blown up a gun nor stuck a bullet in the bore. Just my experience, maybe yours will be different!

 

[The Taxidermist]

Does anybody have a good picture of a flat primer?

 

[rodregier]

A "round" primer would have curved edges after firing. As they get "flat" the roundness goes away. Extreme examples have the primer ironed completely flat and pushed up to the edges of the primer pocket. A flat primer will also tend to mirror the lines in the breech-face too. Looking for ejector marks on the brass is another sign of excessive working pressure.

I primarily see flattened primers on range pickups in some of pistol brass that others have fired. I toss those in my brass scrap bucket

 

[sage5907]

Your Speer reloading manual should have a picture of a flattened primer. I don't have #14 but Speer #13 has a fairly good picture on page 56. The recess around the edges of the primer will disappear and the primer will look flat from one side to the other.

Note to JW, I didn't say it was an accurate check to use a 55 grain bullet to check his scales, I said it was a quick check. By using a small weight bullet it reduces the amount of deviation between the listed weight and the actual weight. The larger the bullet the greater the deviation. I doubt if the taxidermist has a set of check weights handy. If his scale is weighing 2 grains too light he should be able to see a problem by checking it against the weight of a 55 grain bullet.

 

[ironworkerwill]

There are better signs of pressure than primers. A flat primer is a good example of a soft primer. I have also had ejector hole extrusion without a totally flat primer. This could be a whole other thread topic.

 

[Reloadron]

I loaded up some for my 7mm-08 with 145 speer hot core sp on imr4350 starting at 44 gr increasing .5 gr to 46.5, where it started to compress the loads. The book does not state that its a compressed load and compared to the hornady it's over max pressure at 46 gr. speer says go to 48gr but again is not stating its a compressed load.

Speer #12 Manual list AA 4350 as compressed but does not list IMR 4350 as compressed at 48.0 gn. Both powders range from 44 to 48 gns.

The fact that you start to see a compressed load comes as no surprise to me. How was the powder dropped? Long drop tube, short drop tube? There are variables that will make a charged case initially look compressed.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the compression as long as you know you are working with an accurate scale. The loadings you mention seem inline with what my manuals show.

Ron

 

[gamestalker]

I've been using my Speer data for 30+ years, just as it's published, no problems here.

And when comparing data from one bullet manufacturer, you'll almost always see conflicting data. But you must take into account that not all bullets are created equal. Different profiles, different jacket thickness, all result in variations of data.

Let me put it this way, if you follow the published data and start down on the lower end of the table, your not going to experience any catastrophic conditions.

As far as pressures are concerned, pay attention to bolt lift, not the primers so much, primers are very iffy. If the bolt lifts with normal resistance, and isn't stiff or sticky, your OK.

GS

 

[steve4102]

Compressing powder is perfectly acceptable as long as there is data to support the charge. You have the data, and compressing H4350 with that bullet is Normal.

Carry on and work the load up.

 

[The Taxidermist]

First off thanks to all for your help.
I shot today and feel I did well for my first attempt.
With the .300WinMag, I started with 52gr of IMR4064 pushing a hornady interlock 165BTSP and increased by .5 per 5 shot group. I didn't see a massive change in accuracy but the best groups were from 53-54.5. I stopped as things stated to open back up at 55.5. No signs of pressure. Best groups if you take out a pulled shot here and there were at or less than MOA, .708" being the best one.
Now the 7mm-08 was a bit different. Starting with 44gr of IMR4350 with half grain steps groups were not so good, +2" on average with the worst around 4". I did get one at 1.46" at 46gr. Good enough to shoot a deer here but I think it should do better. I did see some primer flattening I think on the hotter loads.
It was about 25 degrees when I started and got to about 35. Shooting off a crappy big game folding bench rest that wobbles all over.

 

[twofifty]

When comparing loads between different manuals, pay attention to the barrel length and twist rate. These sometimes differ in ways that will help you decide where the safest 'start' load might lie.