DontShootMe
Member
Cant help but be a cynic...
But I have this feeling that we are not going to be hearing from James again...
But I have this feeling that we are not going to be hearing from James again...
im an anti w/ questions
- Thread starter James Castilla
- Start date
- Status
jacketch
Member
In my 56 years I have had the misfortune of being assualted twice. The first time I was able to fight the assailants off with a knife and was not seriously injured. The second time I was assaulted I had pepper spray which really didn't help much; I was able to escape without serious injury because a car approached and the bad guys ran.
The third time I was approached by several miscreants (who were shouting threats) I had a pistol in my jacket pocket. I opted to use the Nike defense and I ran. No harm, no foul.
A gun is designed for killing but a person has to make the decision to do so, even in self defense. My guns are for living!
The third time I was approached by several miscreants (who were shouting threats) I had a pistol in my jacket pocket. I opted to use the Nike defense and I ran. No harm, no foul.
A gun is designed for killing but a person has to make the decision to do so, even in self defense. My guns are for living!
I want to modify what I said earlier about killing.
James; sure guns can kill. That is why they are so darn effective. They are the best tool for their intended job. Why do you think the police and military have them?
You are looking at it from the wrong angle. You, like many others, assume that once someone has a gun, they randomly go about shooting small children at schools, small cute furry animals, neighbors, etc.
It is a simple fact that gun owners are on the whole better educated, more law-abiding, and have higher income levels than non-gun owners.
We gun owners realize fully that human beings understand words, feelings, compassion, etc. Predators understand strength. http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_strength.jpg
James, what I'm getting at is that guns kill or threaten to kill not for killings' sake, but so that I may live.
If you value the life and wellbeing of a predator who would kill you for $20 then rape your wife more than the lives of yourself and your loved ones, frankly buddy, that's your problem.
Are you going to respond here?
James; sure guns can kill. That is why they are so darn effective. They are the best tool for their intended job. Why do you think the police and military have them?
You are looking at it from the wrong angle. You, like many others, assume that once someone has a gun, they randomly go about shooting small children at schools, small cute furry animals, neighbors, etc.
It is a simple fact that gun owners are on the whole better educated, more law-abiding, and have higher income levels than non-gun owners.
We gun owners realize fully that human beings understand words, feelings, compassion, etc. Predators understand strength. http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/s_strength.jpg
James, what I'm getting at is that guns kill or threaten to kill not for killings' sake, but so that I may live.
If you value the life and wellbeing of a predator who would kill you for $20 then rape your wife more than the lives of yourself and your loved ones, frankly buddy, that's your problem.
Are you going to respond here?
sm
member
I was just wondering...
Even if James did not respond, and I hope he is just thinking about all the replies, and does. Or even if this was just a thread to see how THR member's would respond, two thoughts:
I
I believe once again we have shown responsible gun owners do not fit the stereotypical profile as some are led to believe. We accepted, welcomed, and James was given respect. Many answers given and facts, real life experiences expressed..
II
Wondering part: what would happen if this thread was posted on some anti-gun/gun control sites? Courtesy reciprocated?
Even if James did not respond, and I hope he is just thinking about all the replies, and does. Or even if this was just a thread to see how THR member's would respond, two thoughts:I
I believe once again we have shown responsible gun owners do not fit the stereotypical profile as some are led to believe. We accepted, welcomed, and James was given respect. Many answers given and facts, real life experiences expressed..
II
Wondering part: what would happen if this thread was posted on some anti-gun/gun control sites? Courtesy reciprocated?
Orthonym
Member
Hi, I'm pretty new here myself, but
Welcome! I was one of the two people online when you signed on, but hung back on responding. (See "What do you do for RKBA?" in my profile. (Thanks, nightcrawler!)). Other people here have provided every principled and utilitarian argument known to man for arming one's self. I have a personal reason. If you have at least half a brain and any empathy/sympathy whatsoever, owning a deadly weapon will improve your manners! To people who have met me recently and think I'm rude, I can only say,"You should have seen me BEFORE!"
Welcome! I was one of the two people online when you signed on, but hung back on responding. (See "What do you do for RKBA?" in my profile. (Thanks, nightcrawler!)). Other people here have provided every principled and utilitarian argument known to man for arming one's self. I have a personal reason. If you have at least half a brain and any empathy/sympathy whatsoever, owning a deadly weapon will improve your manners! To people who have met me recently and think I'm rude, I can only say,"You should have seen me BEFORE!"
280PLUS
Member
Don't shoot me said,,,
"But I have this feeling that we are not going to be hearing from James again..."
maybe, but what if he tunes back in a 4 am again tomorrow morning, won't he be surprised...
i took the liberty of emailing him, let's see what happens...
"But I have this feeling that we are not going to be hearing from James again..."
maybe, but what if he tunes back in a 4 am again tomorrow morning, won't he be surprised...
i took the liberty of emailing him, let's see what happens...
gburner
member
Welcome, James...
As you can read from our varied responses, we are neither knee jerk rednecks, power hungry elitists or paranoid/delusional nut cases.
I take weapons ownership/use very seriously because of what I believe is the moral obligation placed upon me by the Creator; to sustain and protect the gift of life I have been given as well as the lives of my family and assorted loved ones. To squander or compromise this most basic of rights is to render life forfeit; to have it held hostage to the whims of others.
The right to keep and bear arms makes possible, tangible and irrevocable that which was previously only read, spoken or dreamed of and is the foundation on which all other rights depend. It makes of us citizens, free people, no ones subjects.
As you can read from our varied responses, we are neither knee jerk rednecks, power hungry elitists or paranoid/delusional nut cases.
I take weapons ownership/use very seriously because of what I believe is the moral obligation placed upon me by the Creator; to sustain and protect the gift of life I have been given as well as the lives of my family and assorted loved ones. To squander or compromise this most basic of rights is to render life forfeit; to have it held hostage to the whims of others.
The right to keep and bear arms makes possible, tangible and irrevocable that which was previously only read, spoken or dreamed of and is the foundation on which all other rights depend. It makes of us citizens, free people, no ones subjects.
Moparmike
Member
Wow. There have been a lot of excellent replys here, all of which reinforce why I believe in the 2nd. It also convinces me that owning a gun isnt a right or privledge, its required.
I have two good quotes that I cant remember the source of for this topic:
I have two good quotes that I cant remember the source of for this topic:
May you learn as much as I hope to from this forum.
hops
Member
James,
If you disapprove of guns, for yourself, that is fine. What I object to is that anti's also feel that they need to impose their view regarding guns upon me, by trying to get laws past that deny me the right own and use guns because I approve of guns in the hands of ordinary people.
I perfer to take responsibility for my self- defence and not outsource it to gov.org. I have a greater interest in my well being than gov.org or some other benevolent organziation.
As far as airplanes and gun shots a 35K feet. There might be a quick decompression, say 3 seconds, as the oxygen masks fall down. The structural integrity of the plane will be just fine. The forces that nature places upon the plane are far greater than man even with a gun can place upon a plane.
As far as 9/11 had more people known that they could care 3 or 4 inch blade knives on aircraft legally and had more people taken an active role in their well being by not outsourcing their self-defence to gov.org, a number of passangers armed with knives would have won the day over a few terrorists wiith razor blades.
Think about this. Gov.org denies us the chance to save ourselves on a plane, by taking all our weapons (other than our bodies) and their solution is to send up and F-16 to shoot down a plane full of people and a couple of terrorists. Why - because passengers armed with guns might hit and kill a few passangers in their effort to kill the terrorists. So Gov.org can kill 300 people but we, the people, who really are the gov in theory at least, can't kill 3 or 4 people to save that other 206 people on the plane.
So what is it what you said about some of us gun owners being paranoid about a tryancial goverment? Just based upon the above gov policy, I think we have arrived.
If you disapprove of guns, for yourself, that is fine. What I object to is that anti's also feel that they need to impose their view regarding guns upon me, by trying to get laws past that deny me the right own and use guns because I approve of guns in the hands of ordinary people.
I perfer to take responsibility for my self- defence and not outsource it to gov.org. I have a greater interest in my well being than gov.org or some other benevolent organziation.
As far as airplanes and gun shots a 35K feet. There might be a quick decompression, say 3 seconds, as the oxygen masks fall down. The structural integrity of the plane will be just fine. The forces that nature places upon the plane are far greater than man even with a gun can place upon a plane.
As far as 9/11 had more people known that they could care 3 or 4 inch blade knives on aircraft legally and had more people taken an active role in their well being by not outsourcing their self-defence to gov.org, a number of passangers armed with knives would have won the day over a few terrorists wiith razor blades.
Think about this. Gov.org denies us the chance to save ourselves on a plane, by taking all our weapons (other than our bodies) and their solution is to send up and F-16 to shoot down a plane full of people and a couple of terrorists. Why - because passengers armed with guns might hit and kill a few passangers in their effort to kill the terrorists. So Gov.org can kill 300 people but we, the people, who really are the gov in theory at least, can't kill 3 or 4 people to save that other 206 people on the plane.
So what is it what you said about some of us gun owners being paranoid about a tryancial goverment? Just based upon the above gov policy, I think we have arrived.
faustulus
Member
Welcome aboard.
I understand your position, but as you may surmise I cannot agree with it.
You and I come from different philosophies that shape our world view. Mine I imagine is pretty radicial to you just as I assume yours would be to me.
I start with the principle that everyone is good, until I have reason to believe otherwise. However, I also believe a man is responsible for his actions. I believe that if someone committs an act I consider evil, he must be held responsible for that action.
Many times today in America we blame evil actions on conditions. "What made him do it?" is a question often asked. I am of the belief that such questions are unanswerable. I cannot know the man's mind and any theories I can come up with usually say more about me than the person I am trying to analyze.
So if I cannot descern thoughts I must judge actions as best I can. Therefore the man is ultimatly responsible for his actions.
All this has a point. To me very few things in life should be restricted. Not drugs, not alchol not guns, not tobacco. I don't like tobacco personally. I believe it causes health problems. However, I do not have the right to tell someone they cannot cause themselves harm. I do not want anyone in the position of dictating their beliefs to me.
If I am a good man then I will arrive at my own beliefs, which may differ from yours, but as long as I do not take any actions which would could be proven to be bad -- actions that directly (not indirectly) affect anothers rights (to life, to liberty, to happiness et cetera) -- then I should be left alone to do as I wish.
This means I do not believe in preventative actions, especially ones that cause others harm.
It shouldn't matter why I want a gun, so long as I don't cause any harm with it then I should have one. It isn't society's place to dictate wants.
As for the reason to the second amendment, I think it is exactly as you mentioned.
The belief is it cannot happen here, but the germans believed that before WWII, given a dire enough situtation and people are likely to agree to things that normally they would question. It is possible, and it could happen. History teaches us that.
Again welcome, hope enjoy it here.
I understand your position, but as you may surmise I cannot agree with it.
You and I come from different philosophies that shape our world view. Mine I imagine is pretty radicial to you just as I assume yours would be to me.
I start with the principle that everyone is good, until I have reason to believe otherwise. However, I also believe a man is responsible for his actions. I believe that if someone committs an act I consider evil, he must be held responsible for that action.
Many times today in America we blame evil actions on conditions. "What made him do it?" is a question often asked. I am of the belief that such questions are unanswerable. I cannot know the man's mind and any theories I can come up with usually say more about me than the person I am trying to analyze.
So if I cannot descern thoughts I must judge actions as best I can. Therefore the man is ultimatly responsible for his actions.
All this has a point. To me very few things in life should be restricted. Not drugs, not alchol not guns, not tobacco. I don't like tobacco personally. I believe it causes health problems. However, I do not have the right to tell someone they cannot cause themselves harm. I do not want anyone in the position of dictating their beliefs to me.
If I am a good man then I will arrive at my own beliefs, which may differ from yours, but as long as I do not take any actions which would could be proven to be bad -- actions that directly (not indirectly) affect anothers rights (to life, to liberty, to happiness et cetera) -- then I should be left alone to do as I wish.
This means I do not believe in preventative actions, especially ones that cause others harm.
It shouldn't matter why I want a gun, so long as I don't cause any harm with it then I should have one. It isn't society's place to dictate wants.
As for the reason to the second amendment, I think it is exactly as you mentioned.
The belief is it cannot happen here, but the germans believed that before WWII, given a dire enough situtation and people are likely to agree to things that normally they would question. It is possible, and it could happen. History teaches us that.
Again welcome, hope enjoy it here.
Carrying a gun does not mean that you are paranoid.
I also carry a pen every day...and it is not because I am "paranoid" that i may need to sign something.
All of the things that go into my pockets, and onto my belt in the morning, are things that would be better to have and not need, than to need....and not have.
And in the case of a gun...it may be the difference between my life, my fiance's life, or another innocent's life. To protect these things, I will use the items in my pockets, on my belt....and between my ears.
I pray to God that I never EVER need to use a weapon of any sort to defend myself or my loved ones...But in the same breath...I pray that God will give me a steady hand and a swift trigger finger if I ever need to.
But I digress....however, a different sort of digression...I am going to elevate the rawness of this post.
You are going to tell me what situation you prefer.
A. Two men break through your downstairs window, late at night. You hear the breaking glass...spring out of bed, your wife still asleep...open the bedside drawer grab the flashlight....about the time you arrive at your bedroom door, it flies open...the two men burst in, hit you in the face, and throw you into the corner....You wife wakes up, she is sceaming and crying...struggling for the phone...It is torn away from her at the same time the second man climbs on top of her and wrestles her arms back against the bed.
You are in the corner, bleeding from your face....while the first man keeps you at bay with a kitchen knife...You watch your wife, in horror, and hope to God that these two men dont realize your 6 year old daughter is asleep in her room down the hall. You look down at the flashlight in your hands, and begin to cry.
B. Same story as above...except you grabbed a flashlight AND a 357 revolver from the lock box in the bedside drawer. When the two men bust through the door, brandishing knives, you blow their heads off. Your wife DOESNT get raped, you DONT get beaten almost to death, and your 6 year old DOESNT get murdered with a knife in her sleep.
I am sorry that was graphic....It makes a point. Put yourself in that situation, and then again tell me that guns have no use, and no good can come of their existence.
You are right, no one NEEDS a gun...except those who do. Do you need a gun? no way...YOU aren't going to be murdered today...are you? You dont wear a seatbelt? of course you dont!!!...YOU arent going to get into a car wreck today!!...get the point?
Oh, and welcome to the forums....It is always good to hear a different viewpoint.
I also carry a pen every day...and it is not because I am "paranoid" that i may need to sign something.
All of the things that go into my pockets, and onto my belt in the morning, are things that would be better to have and not need, than to need....and not have.
And in the case of a gun...it may be the difference between my life, my fiance's life, or another innocent's life. To protect these things, I will use the items in my pockets, on my belt....and between my ears.
I pray to God that I never EVER need to use a weapon of any sort to defend myself or my loved ones...But in the same breath...I pray that God will give me a steady hand and a swift trigger finger if I ever need to.
But I digress....however, a different sort of digression...I am going to elevate the rawness of this post.
You are going to tell me what situation you prefer.
A. Two men break through your downstairs window, late at night. You hear the breaking glass...spring out of bed, your wife still asleep...open the bedside drawer grab the flashlight....about the time you arrive at your bedroom door, it flies open...the two men burst in, hit you in the face, and throw you into the corner....You wife wakes up, she is sceaming and crying...struggling for the phone...It is torn away from her at the same time the second man climbs on top of her and wrestles her arms back against the bed.
You are in the corner, bleeding from your face....while the first man keeps you at bay with a kitchen knife...You watch your wife, in horror, and hope to God that these two men dont realize your 6 year old daughter is asleep in her room down the hall. You look down at the flashlight in your hands, and begin to cry.
B. Same story as above...except you grabbed a flashlight AND a 357 revolver from the lock box in the bedside drawer. When the two men bust through the door, brandishing knives, you blow their heads off. Your wife DOESNT get raped, you DONT get beaten almost to death, and your 6 year old DOESNT get murdered with a knife in her sleep.
I am sorry that was graphic....It makes a point. Put yourself in that situation, and then again tell me that guns have no use, and no good can come of their existence.
You are right, no one NEEDS a gun...except those who do. Do you need a gun? no way...YOU aren't going to be murdered today...are you? You dont wear a seatbelt? of course you dont!!!...YOU arent going to get into a car wreck today!!...get the point?
Oh, and welcome to the forums....It is always good to hear a different viewpoint.
4
4 eyed six shooter
Guest
Hello James, I was a police officer for 15 years. In that time I have seen many cases of people who are alive today because they used a firearm to stop a crime against them or their family. When I say used, I mean in most cases only had to pull their firearm, not shoot it to send the criminal fleeing. Guns in the hands of honest people are not a threat to law abiding citizens like you and me. What of the criminals you say. Well they will be able to get or make a firearm no mater what law is passed. Owning a firearm is a personel choice. I have run into many people in my time on the force who felt as you do about guns. More often then not a victime of a violent crime. You would be surprised how many of them bought a firearm (and took lessons on how to use it) after their assult, rape etc. as they vowed to never be a victim again. James, it is a choice, but can you imagine how you would feel if a rapest broke into your home, tied you up and raped you wife as you watched. At that point I'll bet you would give your right arm to have had a firearm in your left hand. Guns do stop crime hundreds of times a day in the hands of citizens like you and me. I can tell you that twice in off duty situations that I pulled my firearm to save my life. One was an attempted robbery of myself in which the bad guy had a large piece of pipe and stated that he was going to bash my head in, the second was a person I interupted taking the tires off of my neighbors truck. This huge biker came at me with a 10" knife. The first ran away as fast as his feet would carry him. The second got down on the ground as I instructed him to, neither were shot.
As to the police protecting you, 90% of the time the crime has already been committed and we take the report and then go look for the bad guy. Sad but true.
It used to be that a man took care of himself and family. Today the media is telling us that the government, police etc. will take care of us. I belive that you have bought into this theory. The end result is that a generation of victims has been made. A responsable gun owner will call the police, try to get away and avoid shooting someone if possible. But he or she has the ability to stop an attact if the police do not get there in time or are not able to be called.
Instead of trying to get laws against honest people owning guns, why not lobby for people who missuse guns to get put away for a long time, get them off the streets where they wuill not hurt anyone. Most violent crimes are committed by a small percentage of the population. If they are in jail where they belong, they won't hurt you or me.
As to semi auto weapons, Why not. They are fun to shoot. May I suggest that you go to a firing range with an experienced shooter and try firing verious weapons. You will not only find that it is fun, but is not as easy as it looks.
I have a great deal of respect for you coming onto this forum and asking for our opinions. As you have found out by now we a a good bunch of people. We own guns for many differant reasons. To many of us it is a life long hobby just as golf may be to you. You have the right to choose if you want to own a firearm or not, but please respect my right to own one.
Best of luck to you, John K
As to the police protecting you, 90% of the time the crime has already been committed and we take the report and then go look for the bad guy. Sad but true.
It used to be that a man took care of himself and family. Today the media is telling us that the government, police etc. will take care of us. I belive that you have bought into this theory. The end result is that a generation of victims has been made. A responsable gun owner will call the police, try to get away and avoid shooting someone if possible. But he or she has the ability to stop an attact if the police do not get there in time or are not able to be called.
Instead of trying to get laws against honest people owning guns, why not lobby for people who missuse guns to get put away for a long time, get them off the streets where they wuill not hurt anyone. Most violent crimes are committed by a small percentage of the population. If they are in jail where they belong, they won't hurt you or me.
As to semi auto weapons, Why not. They are fun to shoot. May I suggest that you go to a firing range with an experienced shooter and try firing verious weapons. You will not only find that it is fun, but is not as easy as it looks.
I have a great deal of respect for you coming onto this forum and asking for our opinions. As you have found out by now we a a good bunch of people. We own guns for many differant reasons. To many of us it is a life long hobby just as golf may be to you. You have the right to choose if you want to own a firearm or not, but please respect my right to own one.
Best of luck to you, John K
James Castilla
Member
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
- Messages
- 22
Wow...
All I can say is Wow...
-JohnBT: I'll send you a keyboard with a working shift key.-
Thanks, but this ones fine. My goodness, where to start...
"I really think this was/is a troll looking to get a rise..." -El Toro
First, my philosophy when debating a topic is to not change a persons beliefs--only to understand them.
I never expected to get this magnitude of responses to what I had posted. Especially Trishas eloquent declaration:
Liberty is an individual reality, not a bandied concept droned past foggy minds and uncaring, easily distracted hearts during a civics class that involves old guys that've been dead a long time. It is not bestowed benevolently by a totalitarian government, authorized by a theocratic dogma - it is what makes us completely unique in the entire history of man - and it has incredible, broad, persistent responsibilities.
Followed by GeekWithA.45s undeniable logic: I (we) exist. Inherent in that existence is the right to continue that existence, and that right exists everywhere we are. There is nowhere on this earth or off it where the right to defend yourself does not exist. Implicit in this right of self defense is the right to take positive action to actually effect that defense.
And then Paxian logic: So the military will shoot down an airplane taken over by terrorists. But the people on the airplane can't have guns to fight back against terrorists, because the airplane might crash if they do.
Then mephistos story...P12s final question was/ is pretty unnerving... AngerManagements post, though edited before I could read it all sounded very characteristic of someone living in CT
... hsos statistics, later supplemented by bogie... re1973s faux rant on all things inanimate ... Sam Adams quoting Abraham Lincoln (think of the irony with the names there, folks)... George Hill for putting Metal and Wood on the forum and for quoting Tolkien... ReadyontheRights humor: Just because we're paranoid, it doesn't mean that they are not out to get us...
As an anti, I didnt mean to come across as someone who wants to take away whats rightfully yours to have. For example, I dont like to listen to the radio in my truck (too many commercials and the songs are always the same). Instead I listen to CDs--and not feel one way or the other about those who would rather tune in to their favorite FM station.
Alas, my beliefs were wrong concerning the plane and the laws of physics. I apologise on account of faulty evidence.
My thoughts with the M16/ AR15/ Tommygun were that they were deisgned to kill a lot of things at a really close range really quickly and that the average person would have no need for such a thing.
"Our Forefathers decided to make America different from any country, anywhere, at any time in the entire history of the entire world. This country, this new nation of immigrants, would be based upon the concept that people could rule themselves better than any single person or small group of persons could rule them." -Metal and Wood
What I glean from this is that we all know what is best for ourselves. Hopefully, we all know what would/ will/ does bring us contentment in life.
"I took the time to talk with some of them and ask them questions about guns...I made a lot of new friends that were gun owners. They answered my questions and helped me to understand things that I didn't see before." -Borrowed from Miss Demeanors site
My take on all of this was just that I dont have a gun and couldnt think of a reason why Id ever really need or want one. My younger brother has recently become interested in them, and it just struck me as odd. At first I thought his new found interest was akin to something like pyromania, and Ive seen some pretty bad burns from kids being stupid about things theyve seen on TV. Also, he has had a propensity toward bending the rules, so I was sure that something bad was going to happen. He has a rifle that looks almost like an AK47, a shotgun, and a hunting rifle. As I stated earlier, the hunting rifle makes sense but it seems as though he got the AK47 just because he saw it in a movie or something. Same with the shotgun too.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I did not want to come across as someone who wants to take away your rights. As stated above, it is not a privelige. It is a right--open to those who choose to take advantage of it and those who choose not to. I am one who has chosen not to get one (or sixty-something of them like Tamara has). I just wanted to hear why you all had one (or 100).
PS arinvolvo: Id go with B. But how would I clean the blood off the wall?
Final sentiment: S_O_Laban may've been right--"After rereading your post I'm not so sure you are the "anti" that you think you are." Now I think so too. How about the title of curious middler instead of rights-abolishing anti?
PPS This is probably the most insightful, true, informative stuff Ive read in a while. Thanks for welcoming me...Ill be around.
All I can say is Wow...
-JohnBT: I'll send you a keyboard with a working shift key.-
Thanks, but this ones fine.
My goodness, where to start..."I really think this was/is a troll looking to get a rise..." -El Toro
First, my philosophy when debating a topic is to not change a persons beliefs--only to understand them.
I never expected to get this magnitude of responses to what I had posted. Especially Trishas eloquent declaration:
Liberty is an individual reality, not a bandied concept droned past foggy minds and uncaring, easily distracted hearts during a civics class that involves old guys that've been dead a long time. It is not bestowed benevolently by a totalitarian government, authorized by a theocratic dogma - it is what makes us completely unique in the entire history of man - and it has incredible, broad, persistent responsibilities.
Followed by GeekWithA.45s undeniable logic: I (we) exist. Inherent in that existence is the right to continue that existence, and that right exists everywhere we are. There is nowhere on this earth or off it where the right to defend yourself does not exist. Implicit in this right of self defense is the right to take positive action to actually effect that defense.
And then Paxian logic: So the military will shoot down an airplane taken over by terrorists. But the people on the airplane can't have guns to fight back against terrorists, because the airplane might crash if they do.
Then mephistos story...P12s final question was/ is pretty unnerving... AngerManagements post, though edited before I could read it all sounded very characteristic of someone living in CT
... hsos statistics, later supplemented by bogie... re1973s faux rant on all things inanimate ... Sam Adams quoting Abraham Lincoln (think of the irony with the names there, folks)... George Hill for putting Metal and Wood on the forum and for quoting Tolkien... ReadyontheRights humor: Just because we're paranoid, it doesn't mean that they are not out to get us...As an anti, I didnt mean to come across as someone who wants to take away whats rightfully yours to have. For example, I dont like to listen to the radio in my truck (too many commercials and the songs are always the same). Instead I listen to CDs--and not feel one way or the other about those who would rather tune in to their favorite FM station.
Alas, my beliefs were wrong concerning the plane and the laws of physics. I apologise on account of faulty evidence.
My thoughts with the M16/ AR15/ Tommygun were that they were deisgned to kill a lot of things at a really close range really quickly and that the average person would have no need for such a thing.
"Our Forefathers decided to make America different from any country, anywhere, at any time in the entire history of the entire world. This country, this new nation of immigrants, would be based upon the concept that people could rule themselves better than any single person or small group of persons could rule them." -Metal and Wood
What I glean from this is that we all know what is best for ourselves. Hopefully, we all know what would/ will/ does bring us contentment in life.
"I took the time to talk with some of them and ask them questions about guns...I made a lot of new friends that were gun owners. They answered my questions and helped me to understand things that I didn't see before." -Borrowed from Miss Demeanors site
My take on all of this was just that I dont have a gun and couldnt think of a reason why Id ever really need or want one. My younger brother has recently become interested in them, and it just struck me as odd. At first I thought his new found interest was akin to something like pyromania, and Ive seen some pretty bad burns from kids being stupid about things theyve seen on TV. Also, he has had a propensity toward bending the rules, so I was sure that something bad was going to happen. He has a rifle that looks almost like an AK47, a shotgun, and a hunting rifle. As I stated earlier, the hunting rifle makes sense but it seems as though he got the AK47 just because he saw it in a movie or something. Same with the shotgun too.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I did not want to come across as someone who wants to take away your rights. As stated above, it is not a privelige. It is a right--open to those who choose to take advantage of it and those who choose not to. I am one who has chosen not to get one (or sixty-something of them like Tamara has). I just wanted to hear why you all had one (or 100).
PS arinvolvo: Id go with B. But how would I clean the blood off the wall
?Final sentiment: S_O_Laban may've been right--"After rereading your post I'm not so sure you are the "anti" that you think you are." Now I think so too. How about the title of curious middler instead of rights-abolishing anti?
PPS This is probably the most insightful, true, informative stuff Ive read in a while. Thanks for welcoming me...Ill be around.
Stickjockey
Member
James-
There's really nothing I could say that hasn't already been said. But, I will say this; if you are in the Portland, OR area, PM me. I'd be glad to set up a day to introduce you to the world of firearms.
There's really nothing I could say that hasn't already been said. But, I will say this; if you are in the Portland, OR area, PM me. I'd be glad to set up a day to introduce you to the world of firearms.
Moparmike
Member
I realize you are a police officer, but I have heard stories about how firearms cant be used for protecting property, only life. Is this different where you live, or is there some rule I need to be aware of? Like a citizen's arrest or something?
Thanks,
PS: (edit after seeing James's post while I was posting) Glad to have you around. I am sure that the members of this board will go to sleep better having (forgive the expression
) "converted" you. I personally am very happy that the group came together in a very tactful and informative manner and educated the less knowledgeable on such a delicate topic. May you contribute as well as others here, and learn just as much as the others have taught.
James Castilla
Member
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2003
- Messages
- 22
Needless to say, I wasnt expecting this thread to be floated...
but ah well
but ah wellA floated thread is the highest honor that you can have. The float designates this thread as something that is of utmost importance, interest, and insight.
And to elaborate on StickJockey's offer...I am almost positive, that any THR member would be more than happy to recieve a private message from you, inquiring about some range time.
I know that I personally would provide the firearms, the ammunition, the instruction and the friendship if you were to have a desire to investigate any questions you may have about guns, gun ownership and safety.
Sometimes all it takes is putting a few bullets downrange into a target, or making some soda cans dance to get one hooked for life. However, even then, there are always those who will not see the fun, or recreation in it. HOWEVER, informing yourself in all decisions is always key. Learn about, and shoot some guns, then re-evaluate any stance you may hold. If your stance stays the same, at least you can rest easy knowing that your decision was educated.
And again, if you are ever in the Las Vegas area, give me a buzz....I am sure you will have fun, or at least learn a little something.
And to elaborate on StickJockey's offer...I am almost positive, that any THR member would be more than happy to recieve a private message from you, inquiring about some range time.
I know that I personally would provide the firearms, the ammunition, the instruction and the friendship if you were to have a desire to investigate any questions you may have about guns, gun ownership and safety.
Sometimes all it takes is putting a few bullets downrange into a target, or making some soda cans dance to get one hooked for life. However, even then, there are always those who will not see the fun, or recreation in it. HOWEVER, informing yourself in all decisions is always key. Learn about, and shoot some guns, then re-evaluate any stance you may hold. If your stance stays the same, at least you can rest easy knowing that your decision was educated.
And again, if you are ever in the Las Vegas area, give me a buzz....I am sure you will have fun, or at least learn a little something.
Gburner...if I may quote you:
"To squander or compromise this most basic of rights is to render life forfeit; to have it held hostage to the whims of others."
I got chills, and am still getting them while posting this, and re-reading your quote....Eloquent, and powerful to say the least.
With your permission, I would love to include it in my peanut gallery of a signature...most likely to replace one of the others.
"To squander or compromise this most basic of rights is to render life forfeit; to have it held hostage to the whims of others."
I got chills, and am still getting them while posting this, and re-reading your quote....Eloquent, and powerful to say the least.
With your permission, I would love to include it in my peanut gallery of a signature...most likely to replace one of the others.
Giant
Member
James, welcome to the forum. You have asked our thoughts on firearm ownership, for someone who seems somewhat undecided about guns it is a fair question.
I own guns because I would use them to protect myself and my family from criminals who would do us harm, especially if I had no gun. The police can not respond to a majority of criminal attacks in time to do anything to prevent the crime from happening, so I feel it is the duty of each citizen to defend their family and neighbors. You see, James, I know you don't have a gun, so when the bad guy comes to your home I would use my gun to protect you and your family from harm. After all, you are my neighbor. However, I might not be home at some time in the future, and if you were attacked I would expect you to have a gun. Also, if you saw your neighbor being attacked by armed criminals and you knew there was a possibility your neighbor was being killed, wouldn't you want to become involved and prevent that from happening? Would it be fair to simply not get involved, perhaps run away and hide, perhaps say it is the responsibility of someone else? I'm your neighbor James, I protected you and your family when the criminals came to your home, now I need your help -- What will you do James?
Giant
I own guns because I would use them to protect myself and my family from criminals who would do us harm, especially if I had no gun. The police can not respond to a majority of criminal attacks in time to do anything to prevent the crime from happening, so I feel it is the duty of each citizen to defend their family and neighbors. You see, James, I know you don't have a gun, so when the bad guy comes to your home I would use my gun to protect you and your family from harm. After all, you are my neighbor. However, I might not be home at some time in the future, and if you were attacked I would expect you to have a gun. Also, if you saw your neighbor being attacked by armed criminals and you knew there was a possibility your neighbor was being killed, wouldn't you want to become involved and prevent that from happening? Would it be fair to simply not get involved, perhaps run away and hide, perhaps say it is the responsibility of someone else? I'm your neighbor James, I protected you and your family when the criminals came to your home, now I need your help -- What will you do James?
Giant
CasualShooter
Member
Moparmike quoteing 4 eyed six shooter-
Seems to me that the moment that huge biker started comming at him with a 10 inch knife, the situation changed. 4 eyed six shooter was then no longer investigating/protecting property - he was protecting HIS LIFE.
This brings up a good point, though. The Laws do vary in different states and it's important for anyone who chooses to use a weapon to know what the law is whereever he/she may be.
Seems to me that the moment that huge biker started comming at him with a 10 inch knife, the situation changed. 4 eyed six shooter was then no longer investigating/protecting property - he was protecting HIS LIFE.
This brings up a good point, though. The Laws do vary in different states and it's important for anyone who chooses to use a weapon to know what the law is whereever he/she may be.
only1asterisk
member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2003
- Messages
- 2,412
Mr. Castilla,
The vast magority of Anti's and Semi Anti's are lacking any point of reference for dealing with firearms. The best solution is experience.
This is an open invitation to accompany me to the range, my treat.
Your profile does't mention a location, but if you are ever within a 4 hour radius of Pittsburg, PA and have a day to kill, email me.
Dave
The vast magority of Anti's and Semi Anti's are lacking any point of reference for dealing with firearms. The best solution is experience.
This is an open invitation to accompany me to the range, my treat.
Your profile does't mention a location, but if you are ever within a 4 hour radius of Pittsburg, PA and have a day to kill, email me.
Dave
I beg to differ on your stance of what one can, or can not hunt with. You can hunt with an SKS or AR-15 (civilian version of the M-16), why not? The only difference is that they are semi-auto, and most hunting rifles are bolt action.
As far as your remarks about the flight on 9-11; if the pilots had a gun in the cockpit, there would have been a greater chance that the terrorists would not have succeeded and those planes would have never crashed. Owning and carrying a gun, may not mean that you are a "Steven Segal, always win, hero", but it gives you a better chance to defend your live, and the lives of your loved ones. In a lot of cases, it is better to have the option and not need it, than need it and not have it.
And it is not that "we" are all paranoid of the government, it is that as long as the law abiding citizens are armed, there is less likely a chance that the government will become that dictatorship, or that someone would try to invade the U.S.
As far as your remarks about the flight on 9-11; if the pilots had a gun in the cockpit, there would have been a greater chance that the terrorists would not have succeeded and those planes would have never crashed. Owning and carrying a gun, may not mean that you are a "Steven Segal, always win, hero", but it gives you a better chance to defend your live, and the lives of your loved ones. In a lot of cases, it is better to have the option and not need it, than need it and not have it.
And it is not that "we" are all paranoid of the government, it is that as long as the law abiding citizens are armed, there is less likely a chance that the government will become that dictatorship, or that someone would try to invade the U.S.
Cliff
Member
James,
I'd like to add my invite to the range along with the others that have posted. I'm in the Washington D.C. area. You may not want to shoot ,just watch,thats fine,and its understood that some time may pass before you take us up on a visit to the range,regardless whenever your ready,we'll be here for you. At your convienience,just let us know what part of the country your in and a Highroader will respond.
I'd like to add my invite to the range along with the others that have posted. I'm in the Washington D.C. area. You may not want to shoot ,just watch,thats fine,and its understood that some time may pass before you take us up on a visit to the range,regardless whenever your ready,we'll be here for you. At your convienience,just let us know what part of the country your in and a Highroader will respond.
James, you sure know how to enter a forum
Another invite to the gun range should you ever be in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Sorry, no tommyguns or M-16's here, but I have a lot of fun here all the same. I target shoot, hunt and reload in the never ending quest to put 3 bullets in the same hole at long range. Kind of like golf-I want to go on a regulation course and shoot 18 holes in one-the problem being its usually 18 strokes on the first 4 holes!
Another invite to the gun range should you ever be in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Sorry, no tommyguns or M-16's here, but I have a lot of fun here all the same. I target shoot, hunt and reload in the never ending quest to put 3 bullets in the same hole at long range. Kind of like golf-I want to go on a regulation course and shoot 18 holes in one-the problem being its usually 18 strokes on the first 4 holes!
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