I'm confused!

[McSig]

I am a total beginner to reloading. I have been reading my Lyman Reloading Handbook and The ABC's of reloading. I have been researching threads on the boards but I can not get an answer to this dilemma. Instructions say to match the reloading formulas for all components powder, casings, bullets, primer etc. my question is can I substitute other brands of say CCI primer for Federal, a Nosler for a Speer (using the same sizes) etc. I plan on using the powder and grains as listed in the cookbooks but with this shortage finding all the listed ingredients is next to impossible. I would use the directed weights and sizes but would like to mix brands. Is this ok or should I continue to search for all the matching ingredients?
Thanks for your help.

 

[LKLive13]

It is fine to substitute Federal or Winchester primers for the CCIs. The main thing is to use the correct formulas of powders for the bullet weights. Never assume anything and always follow the published data and you will be ok. Like you just did, NEVER hesitate to ask the questions!!!

 

[winkzoot]

You can mix brands of primers of the same type ( cci small rifle for federal small rifle). You can change bullet manufactures as long it is the same type and weight. Don't interchange lead data for jacketed data. And you can interchange brass. All with the caveat that you start low and work up looking for signs of pressure.

There are lots of depends to all of this. Semi- auto military rifles could slam fire if it is not seated correctly and that is more common with some brands of primers. Military brass may have lower capacities than commercial brass.

Hope this helps.

 

[BluewaterLa]

Yes you can use different brands of components. Primers are small and large and magnum, same with rifle. Different brands may yield better results than others with certain powder/ bullet combos.
As for bullets, consider shape, type, ect when looking for load data.
Also bullet and powder manufactures have web sites with load data for specific bullets. Just to mention that load data is what that company tested a certain powder, bullet, primer, and what type of gun used.
What I do is buy what is available or what I like, sometimes what I want to try,
And when I look for load data and can't find specific data for the bullet I got I will compare it to what the book offers and pick a suited load.
Example....
Had some 9mm bullets ordered in bulk, 124 gr round nose plated
Cci small pistol primers and a few types of powder.
Looked in Lyman's 49th, went from 115g to 125g jacketed hp. No R Nose.
So I used the powder manufactures web data and found what I needed for a similar round nose bullet at 124g weight.
Hope this helps.

 

[BluewaterLa]

And welcome to THR ! Never be afraid to ask questions here, most are friendly and there are very knowledgable folks as well. Safety and understanding what you are doing is a great thing.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Welcome to the forum and reloading...

In general, when loading shotgun ammo you must follow the recipe exactly as written with no substitutions. With rifle ammo there is much more leeway and with handgun ammo changing components is even more acceptable.

With handgun ammo a small pistol primer is a small pistol primer but of course there will be slight differences in all the brands so when you do change a component always drop the powder charge back and work up a new load. Same holds true with brass, a Winchester/Remington/Federal/CCI/Speer and so on .38 Special case can be safely used with the load data that calls for a Federal case.

 

[Steve C]

When reloading rifle and pistol cartridges as others have said you can substitute similar bullets of the same weight and use different primers and brass while still using powder load data from various sources. HOWEVER, as with all reloading you need to first load your ammo using the START LOAD which provides enough safety margin to avoid potential over pressure with your initial load and work up stopping if pressure signs appear. Never just pick the maximum load and assemble your ammo without working up to that maximum charge.

Remember the start load may not be listed. Data may only list one load that is the maximum and a start load must be calculated by reducing it 10% for most powders and less for a few volume sensitive powders like H110/W296. Just make sure you read the directions and notes about the powder and the data.

 

[Salmoneye]

As always, if you change a component in a load that works for you that you have worked up, drop the charge back 5% and work back up...

This goes for changing primer brands, powder lots, etc...

 

[Ankeny]

You can change bullet manufactures as long it is the same type and weight.

That depends on the length of the bearing surface and the hardness of the jacket.

 

[Airman Basic]

You can mix brands of primers of the same type ( cci small rifle for federal small rifle). You can change bullet manufactures as long it is the same type and weight. Don't interchange lead data for jacketed data. And you can interchange brass. All with the caveat that you start low and work up looking for signs of pressure.

There are lots of depends to all of this. Semi- auto military rifles could slam fire if it is not seated correctly and that is more common with some brands of primers. Military brass may have lower capacities than commercial brass.

Hope this helps.

I've been interpolating and extrapolating jacketed and cast load data for 40 years. You're sure not going to find data for your exact projectile sometime. Just use common sense.

 

[Kernel]

Using the exact recipe could be critical when you're at the extreme MAXIMUM charge. That's when you need to take pause. Always start low and work up.

I've been reloading for 20 years and I don't think I've ever, even once, used an exact load as published. If I did, it was by coincidence. Something's always different: the bullet brand, primmer make, case brand. Something.

 

[McSig]

Thank you for all the great information. I was getting frustrated trying to find the exact material by brand. I sure picked a great time to start reloading and trying to gather all my materials. It's funny, the more I read, one aspect of reloading will become clearer but another aspect wIll emerge that I have to research to find out what is being said. Example- I found some powder for 8mm Mauser so I thought that would be a good place to start. First problem (which you all have answered for me) was matching up materials. Second problem Dillon does not make the dies. Third issue is placement of the dies in the Dillon press rotation and do I need to trim and resize the casing or will the dies do this? Anyway just saying I will research these issues and ask questions on this forum to get answers. This hobby requires attention to detail and research. I am looking forward to getting more involved and hopefully getting to a point where I can crank out some rounds.
Thanks for the info. I will be asking for your input on future issues.
Great forum!

 

[kerreckt]

Be careful with OAL when you are substituting bullets of the same weight but different profiles. You don't want to seat too deep and increase pressures to dangerous levels. Just something else to be mindful of when substituting.

 

[savanahsdad]

no you can't just swap out one primer for another , sometimes you can but not always , Winchester makes a primer for standard or mag ,not as hot as other mag primers but hotter than other standard primers , Remington makes a 1 1/2 and a 5 1/2 , both are small pistol primers but the 5 1/2 are thick cupped for high PSI and mag loads but they're not hotter mag primers , I use 5 1/2 's in 38spl, 9mm and 357mag and use the same data for 1 1/2 SPP , so in short you need to know what primer is what , there are a whole bunch of guys out there that got Rem 6 1/2 SRP for there AR's in 223 and then read the box , to fine out that Remington says not to do that .


Swapping out one bullet for another , be careful , even the same weight , type of bullet may not be as much as the same as they look , , back when I started loading my own , I had worked up a load for a 270 win with IMR 4831 , CCI primer, Rem brass , and 140gr Sierra SPBT , I tried a Nosler 140gr SPBT same everything else, COL , powder, case, primer , just a different brand bullet , and blew the primer out, blew the ejector pin back in the bolt , found out later the Nosler SPBT has it's ogive out farther than the Sierra SPBT putting the bullet right at the lands but not touching , but as close to "0" as you can get , by seating the Nosler another .020 all was good

so when switching out anything start back at your start point , and when making a new round try to stick with bullet manufactures data , when not available make sure you check for bullet jump , not just COL.

 

[jmr40]

Substituting everything but the powder can usually be done, if you start low. Some primers, bullets, and brass will produce more pressure and speed with the same exact powder charge. I really suggest a chronograph for anyone working on a load much more than the listed starting loads.

If you are using a different brand of primer, bullet, or brass you'll be OK as long as you start at the minimum recommended load. If you chronograph your loads as you work up you'll know how fast they are going. If the load manual lists 60 gr of powder is a max load with their recipe and will result in 3000 fps, and you are using a slightly different primer, bullet or brand of brass, you might reach 3000 fps at only 57 or 58 gr. That is the max load with that brand of brass, bullet and primer, not the 60 gr listed. Without a chronograph you won't know when you are getting close to the 3000 fps mark and won't realize you are getting a load that is too hot. Normal signs of over pressure loads don't normally show up until you are well over the limit.

People can get into trouble when they are working near max loads and then substitute components. Federal brass is commonly known to produce more pressure and velocity. Nothing wrong with Federal brass. It is just not a good idea to work up a max load in Remington brass, then substitute Federal brass. You'll likely get more speed and pressure. It might, or might not be dangerous. Federal brass could be just as accurate and give equal speeds, you just need a little less powder to do it.

 

[Reloadron]

I am a total beginner to reloading. I have been reading my Lyman Reloading Handbook and The ABC's of reloading. I have been researching threads on the boards but I can not get an answer to this dilemma. Instructions say to match the reloading formulas for all components powder, casings, bullets, primer etc. my question is can I substitute other brands of say CCI primer for Federal, a Nosler for a Speer (using the same sizes) etc. I plan on using the powder and grains as listed in the cookbooks but with this shortage finding all the listed ingredients is next to impossible. I would use the directed weights and sizes but would like to mix brands. Is this ok or should I continue to search for all the matching ingredients?
Thanks for your help.

Well since you mention the Lyman reloading handbook may I assume you have the current 49th edition? Now if that is the case I suggest as a new hand loader you read Chapter 6 starting on page 56 Primers. On page 57 (top right) the nice people at Lyman provide a chart with some results of using different primers with identical loads, the only thing changed was the primers.

The above results were obtained using the exact same 308 Win. load and only changing the primer. A change in primer will change the ballistics of a load, so we recommend that new reloaders use the exact components listed in our reloading data.

What you will find here at THR in this section of the forums are people who have been hand loading and rolling their own ammunition for 40 years plus and some reloading for 40 days plus. The difference that comes with 40 years of experience is knowing what can and can not easily be substituted. Thus the Lyman suggestion to the new reloader to follow the component list and not deviate. That is how the new reloader becomes an old reloader keeping all their body parts along the way. Note the comments by savanahsdad as savana has a smart dad in post #14.

If you spell out the load you want to use (cartridge caliber, brass, powder, bullet and primer) anyone here will be happy to tell you what will and will not work.

Ron

 

[greyling22]

steering clear of maximum loads covers a multitude of minor oops' in regards to bullet profile, bullet weight, primer type, etc.

also, while not really recommended, you can use jacketed load data for a lead bullet, but not visa versa, and if you have say, a 124grn bullet but can only find load data for that exact weight, you can move up to the next heavier bullet, a 130grn for example.

I don't want to come across as a sloppy reloader, and as a beginner you should stick to the published data as close as possible, but it's a lot like baking, you can often make minor variations to a recipe. And sometimes you have to. As you mentioned, times like these, it's hard to find exactly what you need. That said, it takes a long time for fingers and eyes to grow back, be careful. But when in doubt, ask us. You have 2 load manuals. between us all we probably have every load manual ever published.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Welcome to THR!

For pistol calibers would like to add this: When working up a load make more than one lot of five to ten each to save time ( Make any more and you may spend too much tie pulling them if they are unsusable). For example: If you have a Start load of 4.2gr and a max of 5.0 you will want to make two to three test loads of five each. Starting with start load of 4.2gr and increase .2 gr to 4.4gr on the second test lot. Make 2-3 test lots. This way if you have a load to light and won't cycle, you won't have to run back and forth making loads to test.


One problem new reloaders run into is feeding. A few things to check to insure good feeding are OAL, and crimp. Insure diameter is within tolerances and don't over crimp straight walled cased rounds that require a taper crimp. A light taper crimp to take out the flare is all that is necessary on these cartrdges. The bullet is held in by the neck tension. Go too much and you create problems.

For OAL,COL, COAL (same thing Cartridge Over ALL Length) Set your length by the data and then plunk test (with your barrel out of the gun) to insure feeding with a dummy round. IF the round spins easily and falls out with a tilt of the barrel you should be fine.

 

[Mohave-Tec]

I just brushed through all the other post and am not sure this was stated and it may be already obvious to you but here goes anyway. You can make some loads using Unique and some loads using Bullseye and shoot them back-to-back but you cannot mix Bullseye and Unique in the same load. Actually mixing powders is a No No. Silly I know but it had to be said.

Another simple statement....
The cool thing about reloading is that at start you can immediately produce a reliable quality load on day one and it is a thrill seeing your handiwork go bang for the first time. But as time goes on and you are at it for awhile, most people tend to get into more research and become more precise and deliberate about how they make there rounds. Handloads can be anything from cheap stamped out light loads (as long as you followed a published recipe) where you have little understanding of why things are the way they are all the way up to meticulously calculated and assembled 1500 meter long range precision target rounds. That's the intrigue of reloading. You can build a reliable quality round on day one which immediately captures your interest but the ability expand and improve on the craft is almost limitless, which keeps your interest.

 

[McSig]

Guys thank you again. All your suggestions are very much appreciated. My plan was to stay with the. Minimum loads and check and recheck lengths and weights. I'm sure the time it takes me to load 10 rounds CORRECTLY you all would crank out 500 or more.
Thanks for the heads up on the primers. I do have Lyman's 49th Edition and am re-reading chapter 6 on primers. You know one problem with learning something is not knowing " what to learn". I mean I can read something but until you know what is important and how different components interact with each other it is hard to really understand what you are reading. I know this, like most things comes with time and experience.
Reloadron--the advice about checking my load data with you guys is very helpful. I did not think of that -but that could save a lot of pain in many ways! I will make sure to do that. I don't want to become a pain, but if you guys are up for answering newbie questions, I will Ask them!
I am going to print out these replies and go over them when working up my loads.
Thanks again, and I will be keeping in touch!

 

[savanahsdad]

McSig; all of us were newbies at one time ,when I started I had one other hand loader to talk to, there was no THR and I was not on line in till 1998 , I started with the Lee kit and two cal only books,

I think most of us here are only to happy to help out a newbie as most of us were on are own when we started , as I said in post #14 I learned the hard way that not all bullets have there Ogive (Oh-Jive) in the same place and I loaded for years before I knew what Ogive even was , , so again ,, Welcome to the world of Reloading

 

[Mohave-Tec]

Ain't no thang.
I started reloading when I bought my first gun or maybe a couple months later. The person who introduced me to shooting was also an avid reloader. I guess I probably came into this hobby thinking it went hand-in-hand with firearms ownership.
I read a manual but still couldn't get a fix on what was going on until this guy brought his Rock Chucker to my house and clamped it to my bar and gave me about 30 minutes of introduction. That was all it took.
Find somebody you trust locally and spend some time at their bench. It helps.

 

[witchhunter]

Welcome to THR, don't be afraid to ask before you do something wrong, there is a lot of information here. iI seems with all of the new reloaders around there are a lot of guys that think they know to do it. Ask questions. Some of us learned from a book, some from a mentor. If you ever need some help just ask, we would like to keep it safe, you might be on the next bench!!

 

[greyling22]

Ain't no thang.
I started reloading when I bought my first gun or maybe a couple months later. The person who introduced me to shooting was also an avid reloader. I guess I probably came into this hobby thinking it went hand-in-hand with firearms ownership.
I read a manual but still couldn't get a fix on what was going on until this guy brought his Rock Chucker to my house and clamped it to my bar and gave me about 30 minutes of introduction. That was all it took.
Find somebody you trust locally and spend some time at their bench. It helps.

in the absence of a good friend, youtube is a handy resource for observing press setup and operation. (if you find the right video)