I'm confused

[243winxb]

hardness for deer hunting

My guess is more tin, less antimony for a bullet that stays in 1 piece on impact. Seen others add copper for a stronger bullet.

From Rotometals-
Basic Rules for Harding Lead-
For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )


Lyman manual- "While antimony is used to harden the bullet, the mixture of tin is critical, for while antimony mixes with lead in its molten state, it will not remain mixed when it solidifies. If tin were not added, we would have pure antimony crystals surrounded by pure lead. A bullet of this type , while it feels hard , would certainly lead the bore and eliminate all potential for accuracy.. In a lead-tin-antimony mixture, the antimony crystals will be present just the same, but they will be imbedded in a lead-tin mixutre. As the bullet cools the tin will form around the antimony-lead keeping your bullets from leading the bore."

The Lyman #2 alloy, may be useful?

My guess.

 

[AJC1]

My guess is more tin, less antimony for a bullet that stays in 1 piece on impact. Seen others add copper for a stronger bullet.

From Rotometals-
Basic Rules for Harding Lead-
For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )


Lyman manual- "While antimony is used to harden the bullet, the mixture of tin is critical, for while antimony mixes with lead in its molten state, it will not remain mixed when it solidifies. If tin were not added, we would have pure antimony crystals surrounded by pure lead. A bullet of this type , while it feels hard , would certainly lead the bore and eliminate all potential for accuracy.. In a lead-tin-antimony mixture, the antimony crystals will be present just the same, but they will be imbedded in a lead-tin mixutre. As the bullet cools the tin will form around the antimony-lead keeping your bullets from leading the bore."

The Lyman #2 alloy, may be useful?

My guess.

This is why us new b casters cheat and coat bullets. The real in depth knowledge of chemistry is very complicated, and if good results are the measure of success then coatings win every time. Are coatings used to bandaid a knowledge and skill gap, absolutely. Does it provide a good gateway to get people casting and provide initial success and reduce frustration I believe so. Just to stir the pot I will say that coatings are the Lee factory crimp die of the casting world.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

This is why us new b casters cheat and coat bullets. The real in depth knowledge of chemistry is very complicated, and if good results are the measure of success then coatings win every time. Are coatings used to bandaid a knowledge and skill gap, absolutely. Does it provide a good gateway to get people casting and provide initial success and reduce frustration I believe so. Just to stir the pot I will say that coatings are the Lee factory crimp die of the casting world.

Oh, NOW you’ve done it! Why not just say powder coating helps improve concentricity or eliminates having to clean your gun? Geez!

 

[Poper]

They say the three gorges dam is so heavy it effects the rotation of the earth... sounds like lead reserve goals. One has to temper ideas like that with having to move someday.

Yes. I helped a friend move from Glendale, AZ to Overgaard, AZ or about 160 miles of mostly up hill. I had 1500 lbs of lead in the back of my old Ford Ranger and towed his small enclosed trailer that had another 700 lbs of lead plus much of his reloading presses and tools. The trip from elevation 700' AMS to 6,000' AMS was interesting in itself. - Just do not get in any hurry. - It was the loading and unloading that was strenuous! Again, two old men had to really take their time, with the women folk supervising every step of the way, of course.

 

[brewer12345]

This is why us new b casters cheat and coat bullets. The real in depth knowledge of chemistry is very complicated, and if good results are the measure of success then coatings win every time. Are coatings used to bandaid a knowledge and skill gap, absolutely. Does it provide a good gateway to get people casting and provide initial success and reduce frustration I believe so. Just to stir the pot I will say that coatings are the Lee factory crimp die of the casting world.

Having seen what pure lead round balls in 54 and 58 do to deer inside 100 yards, at modest (handgun, muzzleloader) velocities I guess I think pure lead is where I would start and then fiddle with alloys only to the extent it is necessary to have an accurate load in your gun. For target use, I cast range lead or clip on wheel weights to 10 to 12 BHN with some tin for good fill out. For handgun hunting, I would probably use 20-1, 30-1, or 40-1 (lead-tin) which would harden up the pure enough to avoid leading but still keep a relatively soft bullet that will deform on impact and hold together.

If I ever acquire a 44 Mag revolver, I will have to experiment with pure lead bullets that are gas checked and coated. I wonder how hard they can be pushed with accuracy. If they can get moved along fastenough without leading or inaccuracy they would make a great handgun hunting bullet.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Having seen what pure lead round balls in 54 and 58 do to deer inside 100 yards, at modest (handgun, muzzleloader) velocities I guess I think pure lead is where I would start and then fiddle with alloys only to the extent it is necessary to have an accurate load in your gun. For target use, I cast range lead or clip on wheel weights to 10 to 12 BHN with some tin for good fill out. For handgun hunting, I would probably use 20-1, 30-1, or 40-1 (lead-tin) which would harden up the pure enough to avoid leading but still keep a relatively soft bullet that will deform on impact and hold together.

If I ever acquire a 44 Mag revolver, I will have to experiment with pure lead bullets that are gas checked and coated. I wonder how hard they can be pushed with accuracy. If they can get moved along fastenough without leading or inaccuracy they would make a great handgun hunting bullet.

That’s good advice @savagelover if you have the option of adjusting your alloy I suggest you follow it. That first shot being 99.999% predictable matters more than hardness. I hadn’t thought about round ball and the 30:1 alloy. Good thinking.

 

[brewer12345]

That’s good advice @savagelover if you have the option of adjusting your alloy I suggest you follow it. That first shot being 99.999% predictable matters more than hardness. I hadn’t thought about round ball and the 30:1 alloy. Good thinking.

I am a believer on pure lead or close to it. I read funny things about not expecting more than 18 to 24 inches of penetration with modern rifle cartridges on big game. Hah! at 65 yards my 54 round ball (230 grains of pure lead doing not very impressive velocity) went almost 3 feet through a deer after breaking a thigh bone. Sectional density and ballistic coefficient of bupkis, too.

 

[savagelover]

I really appreciate all of your replies.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Savagelover, you’re on the right track!
I’ve shot several deer and a pig with the Lee 158gr SWC-GC @162gr. Cast from clip on wheel weights and sized .358” lubed with 50/50 Alox beeswax.

The only one I’ve recovered was from the pig (130lbs). Shot hit the top of his head, was recovered from under the jaw against the skin. Perfect mushroom! Weighed 160gr recovered. It was powered by 14.5gr of #2400 for 1,250fps.

Focus on shot placement and accuracy. I’ve alternatively used either a S&W 4” 686, or a Ruger Sec-6. I now have my “grail gun” a S&W M19 Nickle with all the whistles and bells. (TH,TT, WOL RS,Red insert FS).

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I really appreciate all of your replies.

Question is, are you still confused? I hope all of this helps.

 

[savagelover]

Lol. No not at all

 

[barnfrog]

No you're not confused at all, or no it doesn't help at all?

 

[savagelover]

No you're not confused at all, or no it doesn't help at all?

Not confused at now. I appreciate the remarks making it more clear.