I'm no big fan of recent production S&W revolvers

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//Yeah, it's like advances in metallurgy and engineering are meaningless.//
Besides the use of MIM has there been any difference in the metallurgy between say a 1970 model 10 and a 2012 model 10 repro?

I honestly dont know, but reading thriugh the various models "-1, -2" improvements i see no notice on metallurgy besides MIM which wuld be a stretch to call an improvement; at best you could call it "just as good" which is what s&w does. Have they made any other changes?
 
Have they made any other changes?
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no parts are interchangeable...they are totally different guns.

two piece barrels are another "improvement"

Also, the build quality is not very good. Take a look at the "how to disassemble a Model 10" sticky at the top of the Revolver section. Look at the toolmarks.

There is no significant difference between Taurus and S&W revolvers except price.

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Hey, I counted and there are seven cartridges in that cylinder, not six. Surprise surprise bad guy, smile. :)

I have been saying for years that the older guns were made better. All guns not just S & W. My model 19 will never be for sale as long as I live. It has a pinned barreol and counterbored cylinder. What my wife does with it is her decision.
 
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You could help yourself by offering an explanation with facts. Guillermo is fixated on cost savings measures. But Smith has been innovating cost saving measures on their guns probably since WW2. The 4 screw frames were cost savings over the 5 screws. The 3 screws were cost savings over that. Yet no one complains the 3 screw guns from the 1950s were inferior to the 5 screw guns from the 1930s. Same here.
Long on rhetoric and opinion here, short on facts.
 
Post #43 has facts which you conveniently ignored. Fact is, you ignore/discredit everything that does not agree with your view with ZERO facts of your own.


Yet no one complains the 3 screw guns from the 1950s were inferior to the 5 screw guns from the 1930s.
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Fact, you're not paying attention if you believe this. S&W has been continually cutting production costs. They just finally managed to take it too far for the asking price.
 
Fact-free post in #43. It is merely your opinion, nor do you substantiate any of what you say. Pointing out production methods have changed is not equivalent to showing the product is inferior.

Hardly anyone could afford a hunting rifle made the way they were previously: buy a milsurp action like a Mauser, take it to a gunsmith, and have him do extensive stock, barrel and action work to it. Yet I hope no one is going to argue that today's top shelf hunting rifles are worse guns. They aren't.
You'll need to try harder to be taken seriously.
 
What have I learned from reading this post. If a S&W revolver was made pre 85' it's a good-to-great revolver. After 85' it's not really that great of a gun. Don't get me wrong I only like S&W for their K frames. If I want an L-Frame I go with a Ruger (their guns get higher velocities it seems), or if I want a N Frame or something similar I go with Ruger as well. If I want a precision hand-fitted gun I need to call Freedom Arms, or put down a ton of money and talk to Reeder.

Has metallurgy advanced? Yes. Has S&W really used those advancements? Eh if you count Scandis and Titanium. Does it seem like S&W has bit the semi-auto bug in 1911s and plastic fantastics over revolvers? Yup.

The good days are gone. Semis are the way to go. S&W will still produce revolvers people will want and will buy, but they are going the way of the semi. Hand fitted precision and fabrication are gone. The skilled workers aren't there (through a mix of lack of pay, lack of interest, and lack of employment opportunities). The shareholders control or at least highly affect the quality of the guns because it's about profit not quality. The old days are dead, long live the new days.
 
Here's a new Taurus I got in. Note the pitting above the trigger guard. Yeah, Smiths always show up looking just like that.
 

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It is merely your opinion, nor do you substantiate any of what you say.
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How many of the various vintages of S&W's have you owned? How many new guns? How many other guns of other vintages? How many single actions have you done action jobs on? How many custom guns have you had built? How many have you worn out? In other words, what qualifies you to discredit me???

Or are you just defending the new guns because you're selling them?
 
I'm reminded of this exchange from a previous discussion on the subject:

CraigC - "That's interesting. How exactly do we know that 10yr old S&W's will last as long as 100yr old S&W's??? If so, it will be the first time in history that anything "injection molded" lasted longer than forged steel."

Bubba613 - "There is no "injection molding". Maybe the plastic boxes they come in, or the rubber type grips."

So we're basically arguing that forgings are better than injection molded parts with someone who doesn't even understand that MIM parts are "Metal Injection Molded". Additionally, someone who predicts that the parts will last longer than existing 100yr old guns have, even though they've only been in use for a few years. I think that speaks for itself.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=644285&page=2
 
You failed to support your contentions. There is no need to compare sizes here.
 
Do you contend that the finest revolvers available anywhere are NOT hand-built from forgings and high quality castings? Do you contend that Freedom Arms, USFA and Korth do not produce a better quality sixgun than S&W? Do you have any authority on the subject to back your position? Or are you just going to say I'm wrong and leave it at that? That's a very convenient position you have there? I worked in a gun shop once, does that put us on equal footing???

Don't worry, I don't really expect you to actually answer my questions.
 
I contend that your questions are nonsense and irrelevant and you fail to define "finest" "better" "worse" or any other subjective term.

FWIW I have handled, bought, sold and serviced somewhere between 200 and 300 S&W revolvers starting with models from the 19th century and probably every period in between. I do not base my judgement on the Model 19 I bought in 1979 and the Model 686 I had to send back last year.
 
I would like to replace the hogue mono grip. It doesn't have the S&W logo like some hogue's I've seen that I presume come stock on some models. Does anybody know if the rubber mono grip is stock on this gun, or what else the 2.5 686-6's have been know to come with?
 
That appears to be the stock grip for that type model. I've seen them with and without the logo.
 
I contend that your questions are nonsense and irrelevant and you fail to define "finest" "better" "worse" or any other subjective term.
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But Bubba claims that new S&Ws are "better than ever" and offers such as a fact. Pot or kettle?

Here are a few undeniable facts

FACT : MIM parts were adapted so as to cut labor costs

FACT: MIM parts, as they are used at S&W are the same hardness all the way through, and thus brittle

FACT: S&W methods of manufacturing are virtually identical like Taurus (with regards to double action revolvers)

FACT: S&W warranty returns are higher than they have ever been (based on the largest volume gun retailer in the country and the S&W representative)

FACT: two piece barrels were adopted so as to save labor costs and have been known to go downrange with the bullet

FACT: MIM parts do not polish well and in fact, some gunsmiths will not do "action jobs" because their clients are oft disappointed

FACT: MIM does not take plating well

FACT: high end guns are made with forged parts, non MIM

Those are undeniable facts

Ignoring them does not make them not the truth
 
for anyone that is following and want to actually discuss and learn...every one of those are an undeniable fact.

a quick google search will back up everything that was not face to face (although I can supply one of the names and telephone number of the experts that are cited that I spoke to personally)
 
Back in the day....:rolleyes: when Tubbs and Crocket ruled the cop shows....:cool: I had to carry one of the originals...but we only had six...six....six bullets.....:( Six in the gun and 2 speed loaders with six each...

What I wouldn't have done for a seventh round back then.

By the way, I like your gun and I am pre MIM parts days, ya just gotta go with the times....like a new model 10 costing over $500.00.

Shoot on brother, shoot on :D
 
Very nice. My first revolver was a 7 shot .357 magnum, a Taurus 617. That revolver had its issues but I've always liked the idea of a 7 even 8 shot magnum.
 
FACT: S&W warranty returns are higher than they have ever been (based on the largest volume gun retailer in the country and the S&W representative)
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Returns are only relevant as a percentage; S&W is selling WAY more guns these days. So, do we know if it's just the number of returns that's gone up, or number of guns per thousand sold?
 
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