I'm Not Sure, But Maybe I Want An AK

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WrongHanded

WrongHanded

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Yeah, I know they're not known for great accuracy, and I know there's no cheap supply of ammo coming in right now. But I've been looking at the design, and that's gotten me interested.

If I were to buy, I'd want it chambered in 7.62x39, and decently built. I saw MAC did an initial review of a couple Palmetto State Armory AKs, and they seemed alright. I know nothing about the various brands. All I have now is an interest.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I've got no purpose in mind for it. I just thought it'd be fun to get to know one.
 
entropy said:
The time to want an AK is past, particularly now that (somewhat) cheap ammo for them is unobtanium.

But if you really want one, far be it from me to discourage you from getting one. Yes, Palmetto's AK's look to be quality guns.
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What do you consider cheap? Lucky Gunner has steel case for 41c per round, and 10 boxes of priv for 65c a round. Compared to .308/7.62x51 that sounds fairly cheap to me. How cheap was it in the past?
 
A little late to get on the AK/SKS bandwagon with the prices. But the big plus was plenty of cheap Russian ammo. Not anymore. Wolf and Tula were big players you won't see imported anymore. Just like all the cheap China imports back in the day. JMO. Good luck.
 
AK’s are great, I’ve been more than pleased with my PSA Gen5 it has a CHF FN barrel, and shoots well.

Other good options currently would be the Serbian AK’s or if one has the money Arsenal.

I’ve heard rumors that PSA is starting up a x39 ammo line, so I wouldn’t worry too much about cheap ammo, capitalism will sort it out, especially given the sheer numbers of rifles chambered in x39.

And don’t put a lot of stock in the abhorant accuracy that AK’s get labeled with in my experiences with the current AK’s 2moa is not that hard to find with the variety of ammo we are afforded.
 
I know you want to stay away from anything below 3 as they weren’t forged trunnions and wore prematurely.

Gen3 - got upgraded to forged trunnion, bolt and carrier, nitride 4150 barrel, standard trigger
Gen4 - same as 3 but CHF in house barrel, enhanced polished trigger
Gen5 - same as 3&4 but CHF FN barrel (m249 machine gun steel) and AKT Trigger
 
BreechFace said:
I know you want to stay away from anything below 3 as they weren’t forged trunnions and wore prematurely.

Gen3 - got upgraded to forged trunnion, bolt and carrier, nitride 4150 barrel, standard trigger
Gen4 - same as 3 but CHF in house barrel, enhanced polished trigger
Gen5 - same as 3&4 but CHF FN barrel (m249 machine gun steel) and AKT Trigger
Click to expand...

So the higher generations past 3 have better barrels and triggers? Well, maybe I could live without those. Thanks for the info.
 
WrongHanded said:
What do you consider cheap? Lucky Gunner has steel case for 41c per round, and 10 boxes of priv for 65c a round. Compared to .308/7.62x51 that sounds fairly cheap to me. How cheap was it in the past?
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There are plenty of different types of AKs out there. Do a little research before you buy.
At one point a few years ago the 5.45x39 for the AK74 was cheaper than the 7.62x39, I bought most of this stack for about 9 cents per round.
5-45-stack.jpg
 
Ill second "buy the import". The couple of US assembled AK's Ive owned and shot weren't all that great,and even the cheapest AR's Ive owned shot and functioned better.

The poor accuracy thing has more to do with the shooter than the gun too. Properly built AK's shooting decent Combloc ammo, will shoot the same as most other military type rifles, with right around 3 moa being about the norm.

My AK's with a red dot mounted shoot very much like my AR's with a red dot mounted, when you shoot them the same.

If you get one, just an FYI, when you shoulder the gun, your cheek goes on the narrow part of the stock with your nose at or along the top cover (not on the comb towards the back). Think "nose to the charging handle" and you'll get it. ;)

The main thing you want to do is, learn to run it like an AK. Its not an AR, or FAL, M14, etc, its an AK, and has its own MOA. Once you figure that out, I think you'll find they are actually a great gun, and most all of the negative crap you hear thrown around about them is just BS.
 
AKs are fun, and certainly good rifles for barely trained conscripts to drag through the dirt and mud and still have a fair chance of being effective against other poorly trained conscripts- but would I grab one to go to war if an AR were available? No way.

Now, all that said, I LIKE AKs and have had a bunch, Chinese, Egyptian, Yugoslav...... They were all reliable, and possessed adequate accuracy for hitting a man-sized target out to 200yds. Bench rest target guns, they were not.

The cheap ammo was definitely a plus.

Now, they pretty much just sit in my armory as "emergency war stocks" unless I'm going shooting with a buddy who really wants to say he shot an AK just like in whatever video game.

They have become a rather expensive way to punch paper none too precisely.

If you accept them for what they are, and just want something different from all the ARs out there, go for it. Can they be pressed into SD/HD/SHTF service? Yes, of course- but the AR is a more serious choice for this these days.

PSA dont make junk. I think you will like them. Pretty much all of the imports are serviceable enough too, although Romanians are well known for canted fron sight posts and sometimes rough conversations from single-stack mags.

Avoid Centurys (CAI) and any home kit builds and odds are you'll be fine.

Good luck!
 
I'm betting that if the Russia v. Ukraine war resolves favorably for Ukraine, there's going to be a LOT of "military surplus" AK-47's that are going to be coming onto the U.S. market, which will make them available and CHEAP. The Ukrainians are capturing a heck of a lot of Russian weapons, and AFAIK there's no U.S. ban on importing firearms from Ukraine.
 
I remember x39 ammo for $75/1000 rounds- same price as a SKS. I recall Romulan AK's for about $300 OTD. They came in a poorly made box, and there was sawdust all in the gun and box, I assume final assembly was done in the woodshop where they made the furniture and sawdust was everywhere- hope the workers were wearing dust masks and eye protection. The AK people said they were of low quality, but it seemed to me like they performed just like every other AK I ever messed with. I wouldn't advise anyone to obtain one, especially now.
 
wiscoaster said:
I'm betting that if the Russia v. Ukraine war resolves favorably for Ukraine, there's going to be a LOT of "military surplus" AK-47's that are going to be coming onto the U.S. market, which will make them available and CHEAP. The Ukrainians are capturing a heck of a lot of Russian weapons, and AFAIK there's no U.S. ban on importing firearms from Ukraine.
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If they are military surplus, they wont be coming in here. Proper AK's are select fire.
 
Can always get a Zastava M90, it's chambered in 5.56. But I kinda regret getting my Riley Defense AK over getting a European made one now. Just seems more appealing now to get something with lineage and possible history to it. Classic Firearms is selling Polish parts kits assembled JRA. They claim most are matching numbers from Cold War Era Polish Aks.
 
wiscoaster said:
I'm betting that if the Russia v. Ukraine war resolves favorably for Ukraine, there's going to be a LOT of "military surplus" AK-47's that are going to be coming onto the U.S. market, which will make them available and CHEAP. The Ukrainians are capturing a heck of a lot of Russian weapons, and AFAIK there's no U.S. ban on importing firearms from Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Ya, full-auto.

And If there IS a Ukraine after this, the government wont be giving away any weapons for a long, long time.

Besides, half the weapons going there now are being sold on the black market to Africa and the ME already-by troops on both sides.
 
wiscoaster said:
I'm betting that if the Russia v. Ukraine war resolves favorably for Ukraine, there's going to be a LOT of "military surplus" AK-47's that are going to be coming onto the U.S. market, which will make them available and CHEAP. The Ukrainians are capturing a heck of a lot of Russian weapons, and AFAIK there's no U.S. ban on importing firearms from Ukraine.
Click to expand...

As mentioned above, they won't be coming here intact. But it is possible that kits minus the receivers ( and barrels ) could make it here. I wouldn't mind a repeat of the $80 AK kits like when I built my AMD-65. If that happens, pounce. My kit was $80, a friend shot mine, went to buy a kit, they had gone up to $150, my Dad shot mine @ six months later, they had gone up to $225. Then they banned importing the barrels. :mad:
 
I'll share this but understand I like all guns, just not equally .

I'm not into tacticool rifles, I've owned others in the past and I currently own one good one that I'll be keeping long term and it's not an AK.

About 6-8 years ago I was in the market for a good quality "fighting rifle". I sold an old ratty Harley I had laying around and had a few thousand bucks burning a hole in my pocket. I was seriously considering an arsenal AK as they were pretty well regarded at the time. I went to talk to a local shop owner / trainer that I was pretty well acquainted with about putting hands on one. He put it to me simply and his words stuck with me and I've found them to be accurate , here's what he said-

He asked if I knew what an AK cost in decades past. I didn't . he said you used to be able to get a decent AK for a couple hundred bucks, ok so what? These are the same guns. It's not like they've been drastically improved or are something more than they used to be, they just cost more. These are cheap, ratty guns that are worth a couple hundred bucks regardless of what they charge currently. He told me I'd be hard pressed to find a better AK than a Krebs and they happened to be in spitting distance of his shop, he knows the owner and if I really wanted one he'd go grab it for me right now. He said if be much better served with a good AR that's going to be more accurate, better materials and generally better in every way (except maybe the cartridge it's chambered for). You can spend $2000+ on the nicest AK around, it's still a $200 gun, just costs more.



I didn't really know but I trusted the guy and his knowledge . I ended up buying a Daniel defense rifle that's been really nice, cost less and I got optics, sling, mags and ammo and was still under the price of an arsenal or Krebs. Since then I've handled and fired my fair share of AKs, my opinion of them is that even the best ones are pretty crude. They work and good ones will be reasonably accurate but I don't know if many people would say they're nice. Kind of like a tin can with a barrel hopefully pushed in straight (a lot are not). Most don't accommodate optics, they're not able to be changed up like Legos and ammo isn't cheap anymore.

There's a whole lot of com bloc fans out there, I'm not one of them. I've owned some but all have been crude at best and scary at worst. It's like the mosin rifles, they were sub $100 for a long long time and I thought that was too much, just because guys are paying over $500 for the exact same guns now doesn't mean they're better, they just cost more. The benefit in the past was that you could buy a ton of ammo for dirt cheap, those days are gone. You'll see ARs used for target rifles, can't say the same for AKs, they're bullet hose rifles just made for sending bullets in a general direction which they do well but not much else. Modern American shooters expect some amount of precision , tough when you're dealing with something so rough with no way to properly mount optics. Yes, I understand some AKs have that side rail thing to put an optic mount on but it'll take some fiddling and you'll find the stock design not ideal for using optics so you'll likely be looking to change that too.

I might get some heat for telling the truth about commie guns but that's my reality, you're all welcome to have your own opinions. My opinion of AKs is that if they were a couple hundred bucks, sweet I'd have one or two. There's just now way I'd pay what they cost now, the absolute cheapest AR you can find will absolutely 100% shoot better- doubt anyone would argue that.

Then the ammo. If you have a stock of old ammo you got cheap you'll face possibly corrosive factors and berdan primed cases- probably steel too. You're not reloading that . if you get proper brass cased, boxer primed , noncorrosive ammo you'll pay as much or more than good 223 rounds. After 1 reloading you've eliminated all the savings the old commie ammo offered. There's just no situation in which the AK wins on any level.

I'm an open minded guy, if someone can educate me on something I'm missing please do.
 
All AKs can have canted sights, gas blocks, so you need to inspect it before you purchase. My unfired Arsenal SAM7R has a canted gas block and front sight, as bad as any Romanian rifle I have seen. Wasr are very good AKs, just ask BFV where they rent Modified AKs to FA. Nothing at all wrong with a kit build, as long as it was assembled by a quality gunsmith that knows AK. Arsenal milled AKs are supposed to be one of the best Lol!
11519A0E-3256-4819-9DC1-4D3ABA49DDD1.jpeg
 
Obturation said:
I'll share this but understand I like all guns, just not equally .

I'm not into tacticool rifles, I've owned others in the past and I currently own one good one that I'll be keeping long term and it's not an AK.

About 6-8 years ago I was in the market for a good quality "fighting rifle". I sold an old ratty Harley I had laying around and had a few thousand bucks burning a hole in my pocket. I was seriously considering an arsenal AK as they were pretty well regarded at the time. I went to talk to a local shop owner / trainer that I was pretty well acquainted with about putting hands on one. He put it to me simply and his words stuck with me and I've found them to be accurate , here's what he said-

He asked if I knew what an AK cost in decades past. I didn't . he said you used to be able to get a decent AK for a couple hundred bucks, ok so what? These are the same guns. It's not like they've been drastically improved or are something more than they used to be, they just cost more. These are cheap, ratty guns that are worth a couple hundred bucks regardless of what they charge currently. He told me I'd be hard pressed to find a better AK than a Krebs and they happened to be in spitting distance of his shop, he knows the owner and if I really wanted one he'd go grab it for me right now. He said if be much better served with a good AR that's going to be more accurate, better materials and generally better in every way (except maybe the cartridge it's chambered for). You can spend $2000+ on the nicest AK around, it's still a $200 gun, just costs more.



I didn't really know but I trusted the guy and his knowledge . I ended up buying a Daniel defense rifle that's been really nice, cost less and I got optics, sling, mags and ammo and was still under the price of an arsenal or Krebs. Since then I've handled and fired my fair share of AKs, my opinion of them is that even the best ones are pretty crude. They work and good ones will be reasonably accurate but I don't know if many people would say they're nice. Kind of like a tin can with a barrel hopefully pushed in straight (a lot are not). Most don't accommodate optics, they're not able to be changed up like Legos and ammo isn't cheap anymore.

There's a whole lot of com bloc fans out there, I'm not one of them. I've owned some but all have been crude at best and scary at worst. It's like the mosin rifles, they were sub $100 for a long long time and I thought that was too much, just because guys are paying over $500 for the exact same guns now doesn't mean they're better, they just cost more. The benefit in the past was that you could buy a ton of ammo for dirt cheap, those days are gone. You'll see ARs used for target rifles, can't say the same for AKs, they're bullet hose rifles just made for sending bullets in a general direction which they do well but not much else. Modern American shooters expect some amount of precision , tough when you're dealing with something so rough with no way to properly mount optics. Yes, I understand some AKs have that side rail thing to put an optic mount on but it'll take some fiddling and you'll find the stock design not ideal for using optics so you'll likely be looking to change that too.

I might get some heat for telling the truth about commie guns but that's my reality, you're all welcome to have your own opinions. My opinion of AKs is that if they were a couple hundred bucks, sweet I'd have one or two. There's just now way I'd pay what they cost now, the absolute cheapest AR you can find will absolutely 100% shoot better- doubt anyone would argue that.

Then the ammo. If you have a stock of old ammo you got cheap you'll face possibly corrosive factors and berdan primed cases- probably steel too. You're not reloading that . if you get proper brass cased, boxer primed , noncorrosive ammo you'll pay as much or more than good 223 rounds. After 1 reloading you've eliminated all the savings the old commie ammo offered. There's just no situation in which the AK wins on any level.

I'm an open minded guy, if someone can educate me on something I'm missing please do.
Click to expand...

I'd say you are dead on. Yes, at this point in the game, buying an AK will cost a lot money, the ammo is not cheap anymore, they never were precision guns, (even their DMR, The Dragunov, is not as accurate as most Western DMR, much less guns like the M24, M40, and the various larger calibers) ComBloc surplus can be corrosive, (I clean for all steel cased ammo as if it were, even though newer commercial stuff isn't supposed to be.) and the Krebs is the best you can buy. I still want one, have for years.

Back when you could build an AK for under $250 and the available finished rifles were still less than the AR's, they made sense. If you weren't as concerned about precision, and just wanted a 'truck gun' or 'emergency reserve' as you said, they were a viable option. I built mine because the kits were cheap, and they weren't AR's, which at the time I was 'burnt out' on. (having been an Armorer, I've worked on a few AR rifles.)

I've since come back into the AR fold (with a vengence) but I'll hang onto my AK. I'll shoot it enough to maintain proficiency in the MOA, I also reload 7.62x39 so I don't have to use up my Wolf steel case, or my Yugo brass cased surplus.

As I said in post #2, I won't try to stop WrongHanded from getting one, just trying to present the facts.
 
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