I'm Surrounded by Antis - Help!

[rainbowbob]

I am fairly new to CCW. My wife is vehementaly opposed to guns and I have tried to bring her along to accept my decision to carry for our safety. A couple of weeks ago she said she would feel safe if I carried on an anniversary trip out of town. I thought the main battle had been won and wrote exuberently about it here at THR.

Since then, my adult daughter "found out" and went balistic, making the pronouncement that I could not have my grandson over if I was carrying. This caused my wife (of 32 years) to completely recant and side with daughter.

In addition, I also have a brother who is in their camp. Last night I had a long discussion with him on the subject over a couple of beers. I knew going in that he was a self-proclaimed "pascifist". My first question for him was, "How can anyone be a pascifist in the real world?" He does live in the real world - he's a judge who sees all kinds of bad stuff every day. He replied with the old "Violence is NEVER the answer!" routine.

Right...tell that to the folks Hitler gassed, tell it to the folks in Darfur, tell it to any number of folks who have saved their own and/or their families lives by resisting violence with violence.

Yeah...violence is never the answer - except those times when it is the ONLY answer other than rolling up in a ball and dying.

Anyway...I am not getting anywhere with these folks who know what they know, and feel what they feel, and don't want to hear anything that might contradict their position. I'm really starting to feel ganged up on here.

We know that carrying a weapon can be a responsible, legal, and effective means of self-defense in an increasingly dangerous world. We know we have the right to do so.

But the family members I'm dealing with here are absolutely convinced that I am putting THEM at increased risk by carrying a firearm in their presence. They are certain that if I draw a weapon in a robbery attempt for example, I will be escalating a simple, relatively safe little robbery into a gun fight. Innocent lives (mine, theirs) will be lost needlessly. If only I hadn't insisted on CCW. I've brought this horror into their lives unbidden!

Yes - they actually believe if you give the robber what he wants - they will be on their merry way with no harm, no foul. I agree there may be times when "giving it up" is the right thing to do. But sometimes it will end badly and it is hard to know how will it go.

I am inclined to believe that, unless you are staring down the barrel of a firearm, you are better off ending the assualt with your firearm.

They are sure that these "professionals" will always be faster, stronger, more tactical than me. If approached for a robbery, there will always be one behind me and one in front. They will have guns drawn and I won't have a chance. If they don't - and I draw first - they will be able to draw and fire quicker than I can pull a trigger. The guy behind will knock the gun out of my hand and shoot me. The guy in front can simply reach out and take it away from me...

...And on and on, and so on, and so forth...

This is really hanging me up! if I respect their wishes, I will only be CCW when I am not with my wife, or daughter, or son-in-law, or my grandson. That means, for example, when I drive my wife downtown for a medical appointment, or take my grandson to a ball game. There any number of shapes and sizes of zombies in those areas - but my family is safer if I am unarmed!

So - My question for you good folks is this:

Do I resign myself to CCW when I am alone and hope nothing bad ever happens when I am with my family?

My brother and daughter have declared their homes "gun free zones". They have a right to make whatever rules they want in their homes. But that means I would need to leave my gun in the Jeep when I visit them - or go without.

They have all gone so far as to say that nobody should have to be in the presence of an armed man without that person's knowledge. They believe I should assume everyone feels as they do and that every home is a "gun-free zone" unless other-wise posted.

Should I be asking everyone I come in contact with if they mind that I am CCW? My host at every party I attend? The manager of my Uncle's nursing home? The people where I work part-time?, etc, etc.

Anyway...thanks for letting me vent. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Please don't bother with the " blankety-blank sheeple antis, victims-get-what-they-deserve, friggin gun-grabber" diatribes. That isn't going to help convert anyone, especially those people I love - in spite of their close-minded short-sightedness.

 

[rbernie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGqiULYbt5Y

All I suspect you can do is gently point out to them every example in the media of where rolling into a ball DID NOT help the victim. That, and maybe offering to take them shooting so they can get more comfortable with what weapons really can/cannot do.

I would not recommend surrendering your beliefs to make them more comfortable, but that's a choice you have to make.

 

[cambeul41]

Oh, my God! What a dilemma.

All I can say is that giving in to wrongheadedness is in itself wrong.

They are/were wrong. It is not necessary to rub their faces in it, but just tell them that you will keep your “defensive noise maker” concealed in their presences,. However, they have by their actions grossly and inexcusably insulted you; an insult in the face of which you will not buckle.

 

[misterwhipple]

I have had to consider some similar things, and I don't have a certain answer yet.

You might try asking yourself how you would feel if you never see your grandson between now and when your daughter relents, or he turns 18, whichever comes first. Then ask yourself how you would feel if your grandson were killed in your presence, in a way that you could have prevented if only you'd had your sidearm with you.

It's a tough choice. I think I know my answer, but which one is "right" for anyone else is surely very personal.

The New York Times article about how likely today's children are to be victims of violent crime might provide another perspective for talking with your daughter and brother.

 

[Big45]

Ok this one I do not get. If it's concealed, how do they know? I'm around alot of anti's too, and I carry a full size 1911. Nobody sees it, and nobody knows. How is this hard to figure out?

 

[foreveryoung001]

The other option, and one I had to do for a while until my wife finally became less opposed was to not tell them. My wife knew I owned several firearms. She knew when I took my class and got my license for CCW. What she didn't know until I decided to tell her, was that I carried EVERYWHERE I could legally carry. It was that way for over a year.

Now she knows when I carry. I don't try to hide it from her anymore, but its only been after a long battle with her and showing her example after example from the news where a concealed hand gun might have saved a life.

My brother's wife is the same way. She hates guns period. I stay at their house about once a month when I am in there area on business. The first time I stayed there, I was picking up some dinner with my brother when the conversation got onto guns and he mentioned how much his wife was against them. We grew up shooting together so I knew he wasn't. I mentioned to him that I had my CCW with me, and I would rather not leave it the car, but he asked, to keep my sister-in-law calm, to lock it up in my vehicle. I did that time, because he watched me do it. Now, as far as they know, I lock it up everytime I am over... They don't pat me down when I walk in, so I live by the adage, concealed means concealed... even to family sometimes. My brother told his wife I carried but that I promised to lock in my car everytime I was there (Never promised to do that but thats what he told her) but I only locked it up that one time. I don't get to see them often enough to change her mind about things, so it will just have to be like this until the end of time, or until the SHTF and they come a running.

 

[rainbowbob]

Ok this one I do not get. If it's concealed, how do they know?

Big45: I do not lie to my wife or daughter as a matter of principle - and they ask. I would not violate the sanctity of my brother's home if he has declared it a "gun-free zone". As far as that goes...I believe we all have the right to make whatever rules we want in our own homes (short of breaking the law). I could tell my brother that I do not allow red-headed men in my home unless they wear a hat. He could then decide to either wear a hat in my home - or not visit.

 

[Wheeler44]

Rainbow I feel for you. My wife and I didn't have any firearms in the house for close to 20 years. Have hope. Things changed here and she said that she "might" attend an Appleseed shoot with the kids and I. After all it is the "Patriotic" thing to do.

All of that aside, concealed means concealed, right?

Best of luck,

Wheeler44

 

[LKB3rd]

You could tell them that your carry status is not an issue you will ever discuss. Then if they try to interrogate you about it, you can remind them of your policy, and it won't be an unspoken "yes."
As to people declaring their homes "gun free" there might not be a lot you can do about that.

 

[rainbowbob]

You could tell them that your carry status is not an issue you will ever discuss.

Perhaps...but maybe I didn't make it clear that this has become a BIG issue. I mean crying females, sleeping on the couch, "You're hurting this family with your obsession"..." You didn't need a gun for 30 years"..."What is the matter with you?"...etc.

Aside from all the needless drama...they REALLY believe they are at greater risk in the presence of an armed man than with an unarmed man. As WRONG as that is - they have a RIGHT to their beliefs. Do I have a right to make them (in their minds) less safe?

 

[Big45]

rainbowbob,

Ok so it comes down to priorities. Would you rather stick to your principles and disarm? Or tell them what they want to hear and remain armed? Before you answer, think of both scenarios. Now add a deadly threat to the equation. Which one would you choose now? Better to have it and not need it, principles be damned.

 

[sfmittels]

You've got a sticky situation indeed. My only suggestion would be to join the U.S Concealed Carry Association and peruse back issues of their magazines for pertinent articles. Then try to get your anti-gun family members to read them. I have no idea if this would help - I've found that disagreements about firearms in general, and concealed carry in particular, sound like religious discussions. There are no hard and fast answers. Good luck!

http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/

 

[Robert Hairless]

Promise your wife, daughter, and brother that if they are attacked when you are with them you will not lift a finger to save their lives. Then they will be in no greater danger because you have a firearm than if you did not have it.

They are trying to control your life. Your daughter is the most interesting of them to me because of her attempt at role reversal. She did not raise, support, and protect you while you were growing up. You played that role in her life. It's obvious that you succeeded because she is an adult. She, however, lacks the credentials to play that role in your life but she doesn't seem to know it or care.

I'm a much harder man that you might be. Were I the recipient of such a threat to withhold contact with my grandchild from one of my children, I would explain once that it's cruel for her to think that I would endanger anyone--most especially not that grandchild I love, or any other member of my family--that I hope she will change her mind as the years pass, that I disagree with but will comply with her decision, and that I hope I can come to know my grandchild when he is an adult and free from the restraints that his mother imposed on both her child and her father.

My last statement--truly my last to her--would be that I am dismayed to see my daughter extorting me and attempting to disrupt my marriage to her mother. And then I say no more, because there is nothing more I could say.

Your daughter is not someone I would want to know. What's happening here has little to do with guns. It's about family relationships, control, and her own issues. She's not engaged in good parenting. She's doing massive destruction to people she should love.

 

[gotarheels03]

Sometimes you just have to let them bask in their ignorance. Most of my family is anti-gun as well, and except for my mother, nothing I say or do makes any difference to their views.

"he's a judge who sees all kinds of bad stuff every day. He replied with the old "Violence is NEVER the answer!" routine."

My father is a prosecutor. His job for the past few decades has been putting away violent criminals, yet he's one of the most fiercely anti-gun people I know.:banghead: He just can't wrap his head around the concept that their is a difference between predatory and protective violence, and that guns are not evil death rays.

Personally, I just do my thing and don't worry too much about the irrational views of my family.

 

[xsquidgator]

Perhaps...but maybe I didn't make it clear that this has become a BIG issue. I mean crying females, sleeping on the couch, "You're hurting this family with your obsession"..." You didn't need a gun for 30 years"..."What is the matter with you?"...etc.

Aside from all the needless drama...they REALLY believe they are at greater risk in the presence of an armed man than with an unarmed man. As WRONG as that is - they have a RIGHT to their beliefs. Do I have a right to make them (in their minds) less safe?

I'm sorry for your family's problem all right. I had a little bit of the same kind of problem but not as bad. It's not a fix for everything, but I would recommend carrying and "mum's the word". Since it sounds like they want to give you the 3rd degree about whether you're carrying or not, I would evade answering without lying, things along the lines of "now why would I do THAT?" or "whether I carry or not isn't your business".

Of course I think you're right to carry and don't need to justify it further. But, if you can locate one or more LEO types to talk to your misguided relatives and assure them that not only is it not dangerous for you to carry, but you AND THEM are safer because of it. It's not a requirement, but since it's your relatives that are being so unreasonable (and ignorant) maybe they'll take the word of an LEO. Perhaps if you don't know any offhand, maybe there are some at a range you frequent or something.

Good luck, that's unpleasant and unfair,and I'm sure it's made worse by your own family being so wrong about it. Personally I wouldn't give in, after all it is THEY who are being unreasonable. Reverse the roles and arbitrarily pick one of their rights from the Bill of Rights which they need to give up to suit you, that'll illustrate the point. People who had Jewish friends in 1930s Germany were under similar pressures from friends and family to sever ties with their Jewish friends using arguments similar to your family's anti-gun arguments.

 

[mekender]

it might be a simple one sentence statement... "i would rather live with the fact that i had to kill someone to save my family members life during a violent, random attack... than to live with the thought that i could have done something and didn't or wasn't able to."

 

[CB900F]

Rainbowbob;

Here's an extremely relevant question that hasn't been raised yet: Will they out you to other parties because of their beliefs? It's a question you need answered for obvious reasons. If this were my case, I wouldn't make a decision until that question had been answered.

900F

 

[Mazeman]

"It Can Happen Here"

Unfortunately, it may take a crime that hits close to home for them to change their minds.

My wife used to "tolerate" my gun ownership, but wanted them locked up. At that time I didn't conceal-carry (hadn't evolved to that point persoanlly yet), but I'm sure she wouldn't have liked the idea.

Then there was an unexplained (at the time) double murder in our "peaceful" Ivy League town (Dartmouth murders). My wife started asking me to keep a gun out, and available, especially when I wasn't home.

Fast forward several years.... she has had training, has her own gun, and we both have CCW permits.

 

[Indifferent]

Woah, I'm not going to answer with my thoughts.
I want you to remain married my friend.
With kids, and Grandchildren.
Wow, (32 year old Gma? My Moms will be over 45 when that 'ish happens)

 

[Im283]

My wife does not care for it, but she does not make rules for me, nor me for her. She thinks I carry 24-7, lol. Unless I am going somewhere the law prohibits my carry I do carry and I pretty much do not go where legally I can't.

It has never been an issue with either of my kids and certainly there has never been a threat to withold the grandkids over my carrying. Witholding the ability to be with grandkids is just wrong, period.

They are at fault here not you. Good luck solving your troubles.

 

[Hardware]

If your brother and daughter have declared their home gun free zones then you should respect their wishes. Since you are going to CCW everyday, then you cannot visit them at their homes. They should feel free to visit you at your home.

Pardon the phrase, but sticking to your guns is the only way to win in this situation.

Not to throw gasoline on the fire, but you should ask them to post signs on their houses that they are gun free zones. After all, they shouldn't want to benefit from the perception that they have guns in their houses. That would be hypocritical. No, robbers and burglars should be able to go about their business secure in the knowledge that these folks live blissfully ethical lives.

 

[Hokkmike]

rainbowbob - when I carry I don't tell people, not even my wife. Why announce it?

Are you saying that CCW is more important to you than your relationship with your wife and daughter?

Is that why you are consternated?

Or, is it because you don't like being told what to do or how to run your life?

Is keeping your right so paramount and you must defend it above all in this case?

Or, could it be because you have a genuine concern for their and your welfare and safety?

Examine your motives, talk with your wife and daughter as a friend and loved one, make your decision, and then live with it. Then be willing to pay the price.

One thing you cannot do is change another person, especially anyone who feels they are defending their "cause". Remember that that cause becomes more entrenched every time they think it is being challenged.

You can only be sure of yourself and change when it is the best thing for you to do.

Best of luck. I am with you!

 

[chris in va]

Here, I have one you can ask them.

Ask why they are so tolerant of other's lifestyles/beliefs, but not yours?

More often than not, a rabid 'anti' feels very strongly in religious and 'lifestyle' acceptance. Work with that.

BTW, concealed means concealed.

 

[JCMAG]

Not to be rude, presumptive, or overly dramatic, but this may come down to a question of respect. Your family members are clearly uneducated in the least in terms of firearms -- that's very, very common these days, unfortunately. I know police officers who carry everyday who think along the lines of guns = the devil. Whatever, I don't want him "protecting" me when the "devils" get drawn.

Now, I'm a fairly young man and I don't know much about that aspect of life, but I think a stern conversation with the missus might help.

Murderers kill people. Make her answer this simple, yes or no question: "Are you married to a murderer?" Well, you can't make her, and you don't want her answering "yes." If she does, trying to be a smart alec, then you might be a little up the creek...

Respect is reciprical, though, so respect your family's wishes in their castle, ask them to respect your wishes in yours. Firmness is important, but we must not be vehement -- not like the antis are, anyhow.

Those are my thoughts. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Pilgrim]

Yes - they actually believe if you give the robber what he wants - they will be on their merry way with no harm, no foul. I agree there may be times when "giving it up" is the right thing to do. But sometimes it will end badly and it is hard to know how will it go.

It's called slavery when you are compelled to do something that your heart and mind says is wrong.

Pilgrim