Immediate action drills
- Thread starter Redhat
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I always read how this or that gun is "dead reliable" and often wonder if folks are prepared forthe day when it fails to go bang.
As I know it, immediate action is what should be applied when the weapon has failed to fire and the slide is still forward. Remedial action (clear /reload) is applied when immediate action (tap/rack/fire) has failed to remedy the situation or the weapon fails to fire and the slide is not fully closed
As I know it, immediate action is what should be applied when the weapon has failed to fire and the slide is still forward. Remedial action (clear /reload) is applied when immediate action (tap/rack/fire) has failed to remedy the situation or the weapon fails to fire and the slide is not fully closed
Chris Rhines
Member
Yup. Every time I dry-fire, maybe half the times I go to the range.
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clubsoda22
member
Me and a friend are generally the only people at this one range, so we have tons of freedom as far as shooting drills are concerned. What i do with my buddy is we'll occasionally slip a snap cap (one of the good metal ones) part way down the magazine. We put up our targets and start a defensive drill. When the gun goes click we clear and continue. I've become pretty quick with failure drills. Unfortunately, this is only one type of failure, but it's hard to simulate a FTF/FTE.
PeacefulWarrior
Member
Just about every trip to the range I put a dummy round or two randomly in a one of my magazines. It helps you to find out if your are flinching or not and you get to practice your immediate action drills.
Sweatnbullets
Member
CS22,
There is a good way the practice FTF/FTE.You can have your friend set up one up without you looking, then place it on the bench under a towel. Your job is to lift the towel, diagnos the problem, clear it, and either shoot or no/shoot depending on your buddies verbal command.
The set up for the FTF/FTE are easy. Let me know if you need a little help.
And yes, I practice them all the time, Type 1, 2, 3, and emergency reloads.
There is a good way the practice FTF/FTE.You can have your friend set up one up without you looking, then place it on the bench under a towel. Your job is to lift the towel, diagnos the problem, clear it, and either shoot or no/shoot depending on your buddies verbal command.
The set up for the FTF/FTE are easy. Let me know if you need a little help.
And yes, I practice them all the time, Type 1, 2, 3, and emergency reloads.
In the world of strategy and tactics the term "immediate action drill" is something you do when you encounter an "immediate" shoot situation. Immediate action drills are most often practiced in teams doing engagement scenarios. For instance, a team of four is doing an entry and all hell breaks loose. What would the first man through the door do and what are his responsibilities, what would the second man do...and so on.
An immediate action drill with one person would be how to perform under a certain scenario. For instance, a person rounds the corner and has a gun in his hand. What would you do in this scenario. One immediate action drill would be to draw and fire while stepping to the side. Another might be to draw and fire while moving on a diagonal to the rear behind a dumpster, etc.
What you are talking about are malfunction and clearance drills. Immediate action drills applied to a malfunction in a shoot situation might be tap, rack, bang. It could be to transition to another firearm, or it might even be to hit the guy in the mouth with the butt of your MP5.
An immediate action drill with one person would be how to perform under a certain scenario. For instance, a person rounds the corner and has a gun in his hand. What would you do in this scenario. One immediate action drill would be to draw and fire while stepping to the side. Another might be to draw and fire while moving on a diagonal to the rear behind a dumpster, etc.
What you are talking about are malfunction and clearance drills. Immediate action drills applied to a malfunction in a shoot situation might be tap, rack, bang. It could be to transition to another firearm, or it might even be to hit the guy in the mouth with the butt of your MP5.
natedog
Member
The dummy round is a good idea. I also randomly load my magazines to different capacities- 10 rounds, 3 rounds, 8 rounds, etc. to simulate an unexpected reload.
Ankeny,
My terminology is correct...for the world I work in, which is small arms training but I won't be picky with you if you call it clearance and malfunction drills that's fine by me, I have enough common sense to recognize what is meant. Immediate action is applied to get the weapon operating again without trying to determine the cause.
Bottom line is...all serious training should include these drills, because no matter how "reliable" you think your weapon is the old saying goes "not if, but when" you have a malfunction.
Ball and dummy exercises are also great for diagnosing shooters wh are anticipating recoil and dumping their rounds low.
My terminology is correct...for the world I work in, which is small arms training but I won't be picky with you if you call it clearance and malfunction drills that's fine by me, I have enough common sense to recognize what is meant. Immediate action is applied to get the weapon operating again without trying to determine the cause.
Bottom line is...all serious training should include these drills, because no matter how "reliable" you think your weapon is the old saying goes "not if, but when" you have a malfunction.
Ball and dummy exercises are also great for diagnosing shooters wh are anticipating recoil and dumping their rounds low.
The only problem I've found with instantly applying immediate malfunction drills at the range is that it later makes it hard to diagnose WHY you had the stoppage in the first place. My CZ 75 recently choked on me for the first time and I had it cleared and running again so quickly I'm still not sure exactly what caused the problem. I suspect the Winnie White Box ammo I was using, possibly combined with a extractor spring that might need replacing, but I'm not sure.
The same gun just have a failure to eject in the hands of one of my students, but he thinks the ejected shell might have bounced off the cover and gone back into the port. Once again though, he had it up and running so quickly that neither one of us is quite sure what happened.
Don't get me wrong. It's GOOD to know how to get the gun running quickly and to do it without thinking, but it does make troubleshooting problems more difficult.
The same gun just have a failure to eject in the hands of one of my students, but he thinks the ejected shell might have bounced off the cover and gone back into the port. Once again though, he had it up and running so quickly that neither one of us is quite sure what happened.
Don't get me wrong. It's GOOD to know how to get the gun running quickly and to do it without thinking, but it does make troubleshooting problems more difficult.
Redhat:
I am not being picky. It's just that I don't have enough common sense to know what you meant. In my initial reply I was thinking of immediate action drills as defined by tactical teams. Color me stoopid for not knowing a malfunction or clearance drill is the same thing.
So, do any of you guys practice an action other than standing in the line of fire like a deer in the headlights while you tap, rack, and bang? Just curious.
I am not being picky. It's just that I don't have enough common sense to know what you meant. In my initial reply I was thinking of immediate action drills as defined by tactical teams. Color me stoopid for not knowing a malfunction or clearance drill is the same thing.
So, do any of you guys practice an action other than standing in the line of fire like a deer in the headlights while you tap, rack, and bang? Just curious.
Yup, If the distance is close, 6ft or so, (and I'm at an outdoor/informal range) then I close the distance and muzzle punch the target. This can be done quicker than tap, rack, bang, and takes him out of commision. Then clear malfunction and check for other BGs.
If the distance is 10ft or more, then I try to tap, rack and bang while simultaneously moving out of the line of fire!
Yes
As has been mentioned, when training I always load snap caps into my magazines. I have like a dozen snap caps in two defensive firearms I use (.45 ACP and 5.56). I load my magazines at home and randomly insert snap caps. Often more than one per magazine. In this way I have no idea where the snap caps are located. I use these magazines during my regular drills so I am on the clock and probably moving when the malfunctions occur.
During dry practice I set up all three types of malfunctions and try to put pressure on myself to clear them as quickly as possible.
"So, do any of you guys practice an action other than standing in the line of fire like a deer in the headlights while you tap, rack, and bang?"
Yes
I regularly attend a shooting school that requires you to move after shooting, during reloads, and when clearing malfunctions. It has become an automatic response for me. I didn't realize this until a week or so ago when I attended a different shooting school that doesn't teach this. Every drill we fired I found myself steppping off line and doing the "quick check", "final check", and scan and no one else was doing it. I actually tried to stop it because I didn't want to stand out from the crowd, but every time I didn't make a conscious effort to do it, I did it.
When I am doing defensive training with a long gun (AR15 or shotgun), I always wear my handgun and practice transition drills every time the long gun quits firing (99.9% of the time because it is empty).
Ankeny, you are not alone. The only place I heard the term "immediate action drill" used for what I call a malfunction drill was in the Army and I had basically forgot about that. I was thinking the same thing you were. It doesn't matter, we all know what each other are talking about.
As has been mentioned, when training I always load snap caps into my magazines. I have like a dozen snap caps in two defensive firearms I use (.45 ACP and 5.56). I load my magazines at home and randomly insert snap caps. Often more than one per magazine. In this way I have no idea where the snap caps are located. I use these magazines during my regular drills so I am on the clock and probably moving when the malfunctions occur.
During dry practice I set up all three types of malfunctions and try to put pressure on myself to clear them as quickly as possible.
"So, do any of you guys practice an action other than standing in the line of fire like a deer in the headlights while you tap, rack, and bang?"
Yes
I regularly attend a shooting school that requires you to move after shooting, during reloads, and when clearing malfunctions. It has become an automatic response for me. I didn't realize this until a week or so ago when I attended a different shooting school that doesn't teach this. Every drill we fired I found myself steppping off line and doing the "quick check", "final check", and scan and no one else was doing it. I actually tried to stop it because I didn't want to stand out from the crowd, but every time I didn't make a conscious effort to do it, I did it.
When I am doing defensive training with a long gun (AR15 or shotgun), I always wear my handgun and practice transition drills every time the long gun quits firing (99.9% of the time because it is empty).
Ankeny, you are not alone. The only place I heard the term "immediate action drill" used for what I call a malfunction drill was in the Army and I had basically forgot about that. I was thinking the same thing you were. It doesn't matter, we all know what each other are talking about.
tetleyb
Member
I have to agree with 444 and Ankeny also. When I first read this thread, I thought it meant Immediate Action, for a particular threat. I too, thought of a team or my wife and I clearing our home, and bad guy jumps out. To me, that is what an Immediate Action Drill is.
What the original poster implied, again to me, is Malfunction Clearance Drills. Two totally different thing.
Alot of no common sense going around here
What the original poster implied, again to me, is Malfunction Clearance Drills. Two totally different thing.
Alot of no common sense going around here
Is it potato or potatoe?
I don't think there is any need to get wrapped around the axle with semantics. I too initially thought the thread was about a battle drill type reaction to a threat. However, the Army still teaches new soldiers to perform immediate action when their weapon malfunctions. Now that we've determined we're talking about immediate action to clear a malfunction. lets get back to that subject.
Everyone who employs a semi-automatic weapon for defensive use needs to know the drills to clear it, should it malfunction. I've found the simplest method is to transition to the BUG, stay in the fight and worry about clearing it later. This might not be the best option if you're in a fight at any distance and your long gun goes down though. You may be out of effective range of your BUG.
I think that the best method is always to train as you intend to fight. Like strambo, at arms distance I'm transitioning to a hard hand combative (center punching the assailant with the handgun, muzzle strike or buttstroke with a long gun), just out of arms reach to 25 yards, I'm moving and transitioning to the BUG, 26 yards and farther I'm clearing my primary weapon and getting it back into the fight.
A safety note: When you are practicing malfunction drills, remember to listen for any difference in the sound of your weapon and feel any change in recoil. Pop, tap-rack-bang can equal KABOOM if the squibb load lodges the bullet far enough down the barrel to allow you to chamber the next round. I very nearly blew my Colt R6920 up like that at Pat Rogers' carbine course last summer. I was concentrating on the problem (a box drill at 26 yards IIRC) when I had the squibb load. Didn't notice any difference in the sound, and the load was enough to cycle the bolt. I dropped the magazine, racked the bolt three times (since the bolt cycled, I figured the case tore or the extractor pulled off the rim) put in a fresh mag and attempted to chamber a round and get back in the fight. The round wouldn't chamber. I was so intent on finishing the drill, I hit the forward assist when the new round wouldn't chamber. Needless to say, if I had been able to chamber the next round, I would have blown my carbine up, possibly injuring myself and other shooters on the line.
Jeff
I don't think there is any need to get wrapped around the axle with semantics. I too initially thought the thread was about a battle drill type reaction to a threat. However, the Army still teaches new soldiers to perform immediate action when their weapon malfunctions. Now that we've determined we're talking about immediate action to clear a malfunction. lets get back to that subject.
Everyone who employs a semi-automatic weapon for defensive use needs to know the drills to clear it, should it malfunction. I've found the simplest method is to transition to the BUG, stay in the fight and worry about clearing it later. This might not be the best option if you're in a fight at any distance and your long gun goes down though. You may be out of effective range of your BUG.
I think that the best method is always to train as you intend to fight. Like strambo, at arms distance I'm transitioning to a hard hand combative (center punching the assailant with the handgun, muzzle strike or buttstroke with a long gun), just out of arms reach to 25 yards, I'm moving and transitioning to the BUG, 26 yards and farther I'm clearing my primary weapon and getting it back into the fight.
A safety note: When you are practicing malfunction drills, remember to listen for any difference in the sound of your weapon and feel any change in recoil. Pop, tap-rack-bang can equal KABOOM if the squibb load lodges the bullet far enough down the barrel to allow you to chamber the next round. I very nearly blew my Colt R6920 up like that at Pat Rogers' carbine course last summer. I was concentrating on the problem (a box drill at 26 yards IIRC) when I had the squibb load. Didn't notice any difference in the sound, and the load was enough to cycle the bolt. I dropped the magazine, racked the bolt three times (since the bolt cycled, I figured the case tore or the extractor pulled off the rim) put in a fresh mag and attempted to chamber a round and get back in the fight. The round wouldn't chamber. I was so intent on finishing the drill, I hit the forward assist when the new round wouldn't chamber. Needless to say, if I had been able to chamber the next round, I would have blown my carbine up, possibly injuring myself and other shooters on the line.
Jeff
Jeff White,
When you had your light recoil on the AR, did a cartridge case eject when you rulled the charging handle to the rear? I have seen the dreaded KaBoom on the M16 and it was quite spectacular and scary. The left side of the receiver blew off, bolt carrier split like a banana peel and the mag blew out the bottom. Also the ufired rounds were laying on the ground with bullets seperated!!! No noe got hurt but it was enlightening to say the least.
Know your weapon folks!!!
When you had your light recoil on the AR, did a cartridge case eject when you rulled the charging handle to the rear? I have seen the dreaded KaBoom on the M16 and it was quite spectacular and scary. The left side of the receiver blew off, bolt carrier split like a banana peel and the mag blew out the bottom. Also the ufired rounds were laying on the ground with bullets seperated!!! No noe got hurt but it was enlightening to say the least.
Know your weapon folks!!!
Redhat,
The case ejected when I pulled the bolt back. The only thing that saved me was the fact the bullet lodged close enough to the chamber to keep me from chambering another round.
Only saw one M16 blow up in 29 years in the Army. That was when a live round was fired with a BFA on the muzzle. I know the BFAs are supposed to blow off, but this one didn't, the barrel blew up right behind the flash suppressor. Fortunately no one was injured that time.
Jeff
The case ejected when I pulled the bolt back. The only thing that saved me was the fact the bullet lodged close enough to the chamber to keep me from chambering another round.
Only saw one M16 blow up in 29 years in the Army. That was when a live round was fired with a BFA on the muzzle. I know the BFAs are supposed to blow off, but this one didn't, the barrel blew up right behind the flash suppressor. Fortunately no one was injured that time.
Jeff
Bob F.
Member
I have a box of reloads that won't cycle the action, but the bullet DOES exit the bbl. Good for FTE drills. I've had a squib load on 2 occassions with factory ammo. Didn't notice difference in boom or recoil. By the grace of God, the bullet lodged in the throat and wouldn't allow the next rd to chamber completely or I'd have Kb'd! Had a couple squibs in reloads, too. One of the reasons I don't generally give away reloads.
Stay safe.
Bob
Stay safe.
Bob
The way we teach SPORTS is when you Pull the charging handle back, you also observe for ejection of a live round or empty cartridge case. If an empty case comes out you should check the weapon for a round lodged in the barrel. If a live cartridge ejects, release the charging handle, tap the FWD assist and shoot.
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