Gordon Fink
Member
“Illegal” immigration is just a symptom of the actual disease. If you think real hard, I bet you already know what that disease is.
~G. Fink
~G. Fink
Immigration Reform: 10 Point Proposal
- Thread starter El Tejon
- Start date
- Status
Waitone
Member
South of the border
--socialist paradise
--government by the family few
--poverty
--economic future is dismal despite trade agreements
--blatant corruption
--narco government
North of the Border
--some degree of economic freedom
--comparative economic opportunity
--demand for below market wages
--lax immigration law enforcement
--fragmented law enforcement
--Americans too busy fighting each other
--conflict among city, local, state, and federal government
--bennies out the ying yang
--anchor babies
I repeat. Bush's immigration (as well as previous presidents) policies are venting the social pressure that would have otherwise exploded in Mexico.
--socialist paradise
--government by the family few
--poverty
--economic future is dismal despite trade agreements
--blatant corruption
--narco government
North of the Border
--some degree of economic freedom
--comparative economic opportunity
--demand for below market wages
--lax immigration law enforcement
--fragmented law enforcement
--Americans too busy fighting each other
--conflict among city, local, state, and federal government
--bennies out the ying yang
--anchor babies
I repeat. Bush's immigration (as well as previous presidents) policies are venting the social pressure that would have otherwise exploded in Mexico.
Glock Glockler
Member
Are we then enableing the corrupt despots in Mexico by so eagerly taking in Mexicans? I dont understand why we are so eager to "nation build" all accross the world but we ignore the cancer growing right on our own border.
Why isn't anyone concerned about the illegal aliens flying into, for example, Chicago? Oh, wait, they are Poles and Irish.
How many of them cause problems? I don't see hordes of them getting on welfare and committing crimes but I do know of many illegal Mexicans that do cause problems. Also, I would wager that the amount of Mexicans illegally immigrating is far greater than the amount of Irish and Poles. If a school district has to pick up the tab on a few illegals it would not raise to many eyebrows but when they get flooded I can assure you that it will cause people to notice.
The U.S. gets stronger every time an immigrant crosses the border, and their home country gets weaker
So all the criminals and welfare addicts that we have imported from other countries make us stronger?
The weak, lame and lazy aren't the ones who come
Allow me to introduce you to several the next time you are in my parts.
Tight borders are an excellent indicator of fear, weakness, and other things that don't apply to America.
Yeah, I just hate when criminals and terrorists can just waltz in like a breeze, why should we be afraid of that, as we have never had a one of those come in?
Why isn't anyone concerned about the illegal aliens flying into, for example, Chicago? Oh, wait, they are Poles and Irish.
How many of them cause problems? I don't see hordes of them getting on welfare and committing crimes but I do know of many illegal Mexicans that do cause problems. Also, I would wager that the amount of Mexicans illegally immigrating is far greater than the amount of Irish and Poles. If a school district has to pick up the tab on a few illegals it would not raise to many eyebrows but when they get flooded I can assure you that it will cause people to notice.
The U.S. gets stronger every time an immigrant crosses the border, and their home country gets weaker
So all the criminals and welfare addicts that we have imported from other countries make us stronger?
The weak, lame and lazy aren't the ones who come
Allow me to introduce you to several the next time you are in my parts.
Tight borders are an excellent indicator of fear, weakness, and other things that don't apply to America.
Yeah, I just hate when criminals and terrorists can just waltz in like a breeze, why should we be afraid of that, as we have never had a one of those come in?
longeyes
member
Let's stop deluding ourselves about where all this is going, given current trends. We are one hothead away from civil war.
BALDWIN PARK, CA RIOT
Joe Turner - Save Our State
In the bizarre world that we live in, merely opposing illegal
immigration and all the peripheral issues that go along with it
is justification for being labeled a racist, bigot or a
vigilante.
In countless interviews, I am asked my thoughts when our
opponents accuse us of being a racist organization. I constantly
wonder why reporters simply regurgitate unsubstantiated claims
and in the process perform the devil's bidding.
Yet, as evidenced by today's happenings, it is so crystal clear
that our opponents are projecting their bigotry and hatred onto
us. Today, we saw some of the most vile hatred and bigotry
expressed towards us by the Mechistas.
Everything that we argued the monument stood for was reinforced
by the hundreds of activists who opposed our presence in Baldwin
Park. Numerous times we were told that this land is Mexico and
that they were taking it back. Numerous times racist epithets
were hurled away. One person even hurled a full water bottle at
our side and sent one of our activists to the hospital with
bleeding in the brain. Unfortunately, she is now in the
intensive care unit and we are all praying and hoping for the
best.
What started as a rather peaceful and uneventful protest on our
side ended in sheer hostility. The counter demonstrators were
supposed to rally at the other end of the metrolink station, but
proceeded to outflank the Baldwin Park Police Department and
traveled through a local neighborhood so that they could
formally confront us at the intersection allocated to us for our
protest.
In waves they came. Soon outnumbered 500-50 in a community that
is 85% Hispanic, crowd control soon became an issue. Rants,
chants and Mexican flags filled the air. They spit and a dragged
and kicked an American flag over the ground. It is imperative to
note that it was the only American flag displayed by our
opponents.
At the conclusion of the rally, a twenty year veteran of the
force shared that today’s rally was the most intense and largest
he has seen in his career. And intense it was, for at one point,
I was informed by BPPD that they could no longer ensure our
safety. Mind you, there were upwards of 70+ officers on duty in
riot gear. Emergency reserves were summoned from various local
agencies. A police helicopter circled above for the entire
duration. Officers with sniper rifles rested on a roof above.
In fact, we were told that a credible source of intelligence
suggested that violent attack on our group was in the making and
that two hundred more demonstrators may be en route (which would
have presumably overwhelmed the already taxed resources).
Surrounded by hostile forces on all sides, we were evacuated by
the police department to the police station one block away until
the crowd dispersed.
We did not hurl racist epithets or make bigoted hate-filled
comments. We did not hurl objects at our opponents or resort to
violence. Yet, we are racist vigilantes!
It is of utmost importance to emphasize one singular point.
Everything that we stated that monument stood for, embodied, and
represented, was reinforced and confirmed by the actions of
those opposing us today. To suggest that the monument doesn't
reinforce the reconquista of Aztlan and hatred toward whites is
simply delusional.
BALDWIN PARK, CA RIOT
Joe Turner - Save Our State
In the bizarre world that we live in, merely opposing illegal
immigration and all the peripheral issues that go along with it
is justification for being labeled a racist, bigot or a
vigilante.
In countless interviews, I am asked my thoughts when our
opponents accuse us of being a racist organization. I constantly
wonder why reporters simply regurgitate unsubstantiated claims
and in the process perform the devil's bidding.
Yet, as evidenced by today's happenings, it is so crystal clear
that our opponents are projecting their bigotry and hatred onto
us. Today, we saw some of the most vile hatred and bigotry
expressed towards us by the Mechistas.
Everything that we argued the monument stood for was reinforced
by the hundreds of activists who opposed our presence in Baldwin
Park. Numerous times we were told that this land is Mexico and
that they were taking it back. Numerous times racist epithets
were hurled away. One person even hurled a full water bottle at
our side and sent one of our activists to the hospital with
bleeding in the brain. Unfortunately, she is now in the
intensive care unit and we are all praying and hoping for the
best.
What started as a rather peaceful and uneventful protest on our
side ended in sheer hostility. The counter demonstrators were
supposed to rally at the other end of the metrolink station, but
proceeded to outflank the Baldwin Park Police Department and
traveled through a local neighborhood so that they could
formally confront us at the intersection allocated to us for our
protest.
In waves they came. Soon outnumbered 500-50 in a community that
is 85% Hispanic, crowd control soon became an issue. Rants,
chants and Mexican flags filled the air. They spit and a dragged
and kicked an American flag over the ground. It is imperative to
note that it was the only American flag displayed by our
opponents.
At the conclusion of the rally, a twenty year veteran of the
force shared that today’s rally was the most intense and largest
he has seen in his career. And intense it was, for at one point,
I was informed by BPPD that they could no longer ensure our
safety. Mind you, there were upwards of 70+ officers on duty in
riot gear. Emergency reserves were summoned from various local
agencies. A police helicopter circled above for the entire
duration. Officers with sniper rifles rested on a roof above.
In fact, we were told that a credible source of intelligence
suggested that violent attack on our group was in the making and
that two hundred more demonstrators may be en route (which would
have presumably overwhelmed the already taxed resources).
Surrounded by hostile forces on all sides, we were evacuated by
the police department to the police station one block away until
the crowd dispersed.
We did not hurl racist epithets or make bigoted hate-filled
comments. We did not hurl objects at our opponents or resort to
violence. Yet, we are racist vigilantes!
It is of utmost importance to emphasize one singular point.
Everything that we stated that monument stood for, embodied, and
represented, was reinforced and confirmed by the actions of
those opposing us today. To suggest that the monument doesn't
reinforce the reconquista of Aztlan and hatred toward whites is
simply delusional.
longeyes
member
nota bene
From La Voz de Aztlan
http://www.aztlan.net
On the Wake Up America - Unite to Fight Summit in Las Vegas:
<> LA VOZ DE AZTLAN NEWS BULLETIN <>
<><> Los Angeles, Alta California <><>
May 23, 2005
Chief Anti-Mexican Bigots to Meet in Las Vegas
The principal leaders of the "USA Anti-Mexican Movement" will
all be under one roof this weekend at the Plaza Hotel located in
old downtown Las Vegas. The "Who's Who List of Xenophobes" will
be at the Plaza Hotel on Friday May 27, Saturday May 28 and
Sunday May 29 to coordinate the vigilante operations they plan
to undertake along the California/Mexico border on June through
August. The Plaza Hotel and Casino is located at the end of
Fremont Street in the old section of town (Phone: (702) 386-2110
Toll Free: (800) 634-6575).
Among the racists who will be attending is head bigot Tom
Tancredo. Tancredo is a congressman from Colorado who has
aspirations to become USA president by utilizing Mexican
immigrants as "scapegoats" for the nation's economic and social
problems. Among other bigots attending are felon Chris Simcox of
the Minutemen vigilantes and his lackey Jim Gilchrist. The list
of anti-Mexican xenophobes also includes Glenn Spencer, Barbara
Coe and the "coconut" Andy Ramirez. "Vendido" Andy Ramirez is
being utilized by the bigots as a "Taco Tio".
The anti-Mexican xenophobes are slow learners. This was
demonstrated when a group called "Save our State" experienced an
extremely humiliating event on Saturday May 14 in Baldwin Park,
California. They miscalculated the degree that Alta California
has changed when they undertook to protest a 12 year old public
monument that has the inscription, “This land was Mexican once,
was Indian always and is, And will be again”. The vile and
irresponsible leader of S.O.S. recruited about 25 senior
citizens from the areas "rest homes" and staged the protest in
front of the monument. They were shocked went they were
confronted by over 300 counter demonstrators, mostly youths of
Mexican descent. One very old white lady of S.O.S. collapsed and
had to be taken to the hospital. The police had to escort the 25
S.O.S. members out of town for their safety.
What the bigots, who will be meeting at the Plaza Hotel in Las
Vegas, don't know may not harm them but the fact is that most of
the personnel who work in the hotel's kitchens are Mexican. We
pray that they don't fall victims of "Montezuma's Revenge" from
eating the food.
http://www.aztlan.net
From La Voz de Aztlan
http://www.aztlan.net
On the Wake Up America - Unite to Fight Summit in Las Vegas:
<> LA VOZ DE AZTLAN NEWS BULLETIN <>
<><> Los Angeles, Alta California <><>
May 23, 2005
Chief Anti-Mexican Bigots to Meet in Las Vegas
The principal leaders of the "USA Anti-Mexican Movement" will
all be under one roof this weekend at the Plaza Hotel located in
old downtown Las Vegas. The "Who's Who List of Xenophobes" will
be at the Plaza Hotel on Friday May 27, Saturday May 28 and
Sunday May 29 to coordinate the vigilante operations they plan
to undertake along the California/Mexico border on June through
August. The Plaza Hotel and Casino is located at the end of
Fremont Street in the old section of town (Phone: (702) 386-2110
Toll Free: (800) 634-6575).
Among the racists who will be attending is head bigot Tom
Tancredo. Tancredo is a congressman from Colorado who has
aspirations to become USA president by utilizing Mexican
immigrants as "scapegoats" for the nation's economic and social
problems. Among other bigots attending are felon Chris Simcox of
the Minutemen vigilantes and his lackey Jim Gilchrist. The list
of anti-Mexican xenophobes also includes Glenn Spencer, Barbara
Coe and the "coconut" Andy Ramirez. "Vendido" Andy Ramirez is
being utilized by the bigots as a "Taco Tio".
The anti-Mexican xenophobes are slow learners. This was
demonstrated when a group called "Save our State" experienced an
extremely humiliating event on Saturday May 14 in Baldwin Park,
California. They miscalculated the degree that Alta California
has changed when they undertook to protest a 12 year old public
monument that has the inscription, “This land was Mexican once,
was Indian always and is, And will be again”. The vile and
irresponsible leader of S.O.S. recruited about 25 senior
citizens from the areas "rest homes" and staged the protest in
front of the monument. They were shocked went they were
confronted by over 300 counter demonstrators, mostly youths of
Mexican descent. One very old white lady of S.O.S. collapsed and
had to be taken to the hospital. The police had to escort the 25
S.O.S. members out of town for their safety.
What the bigots, who will be meeting at the Plaza Hotel in Las
Vegas, don't know may not harm them but the fact is that most of
the personnel who work in the hotel's kitchens are Mexican. We
pray that they don't fall victims of "Montezuma's Revenge" from
eating the food.
http://www.aztlan.net
mtnbkr
Member
I support securing ALL of our borders, but the mythical "Poles and Irish" aren't trashing my neighborhood at the moment, hence my silence regarding them.
BTW, we need an 11th point: No State or Local government can refuse to enforce laws pertaining to Immigration, nor can they protect known illegal immigrants. Fairfax, Va and Montgomery County, Md (and others) not only welcome illegals, but they also give them protection from prosecution based on their immigration status.
Chris
MikeIsaj
Member
Another Perspective
For what it's worth, let me offer a perspective that was shared with me.
My Dad was in the hospital and had a nurses aid with him 24/7 due to his confusion and getting out of bed. I was talking to one of these aids, a young Nigerian lady, and the subject was immigration. She was telling me how difficult it was for her to get a work visa, even though she had a marketable skill and an offer of employment. When she got here she made a big mistake. She chose to leave her children with their grandparents while she got established. She is now in a desperate uphill battle with INS to allow her children to come here.
She is absolutely beside herself every time she hears about all these illegals coming in and getting better treatment than she, a legal immigrant, does. She thinks it is insulting to her that she worked so hard to get here and now pays taxes to provide services to these illegals.
I thought it was interesting to hear the opinion of a legal immigrant on this issue. I was also surprised at what that opinion was.
For what it's worth, let me offer a perspective that was shared with me.
My Dad was in the hospital and had a nurses aid with him 24/7 due to his confusion and getting out of bed. I was talking to one of these aids, a young Nigerian lady, and the subject was immigration. She was telling me how difficult it was for her to get a work visa, even though she had a marketable skill and an offer of employment. When she got here she made a big mistake. She chose to leave her children with their grandparents while she got established. She is now in a desperate uphill battle with INS to allow her children to come here.
She is absolutely beside herself every time she hears about all these illegals coming in and getting better treatment than she, a legal immigrant, does. She thinks it is insulting to her that she worked so hard to get here and now pays taxes to provide services to these illegals.
I thought it was interesting to hear the opinion of a legal immigrant on this issue. I was also surprised at what that opinion was.
mtnbkr
Member
Yup. I think the hurdles a legal immigrant has to jump through are insane.
I'd love to see Legal Immigration made easier and Illegal Immigration made difficult and painful (legally, not physically).
Chris
I'd love to see Legal Immigration made easier and Illegal Immigration made difficult and painful (legally, not physically).
Chris
Waitone
Member
. . . . . and that is precisely why I support (as one component of an immigration plan) the idea of paying bounties to LEGAL immigrants to drop a dime on ILLEGAL immigrants.
Every legal immigrant I've known gets tight-jawed when discussing preferrential treatment illegal immigrants get.
longeyes
member
Who is being allowed to come to this country and why is an important issue that is often not discussed as it should be.
A wise and sane nation would seek immigrants who can best further its own values and build upon its strengths. That means education, skills, attitudes, values, cultural congruency.
Instead, we are following a policy, openly or tacitly, of inviting immigrants who either serve the corporatist needs for cheap unskilled labor or the needs of agenda-driven "immigrant rights" groups or, pehaps worst, feed the vast and growing social welfare establishment that needs all the "customers" and "clients" it can drum up.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Someone help me in my confusion: Is not "Aztlan" a shorhand for "Aztec Lands"? That's my understanding, anyway.
Now, the archaeologist folks tell us that the Aztec lands were around Mexico City, and did not extend outward for any great distance. This makes sense, for as one travels northward, one finds desert. Chihuahua. Sonora. Baja California. Even Tamaulipas is irrigation-only farming country.
Since Aztecs weren't within many hundreds of miles of Texas or New Mexico or Arizona or California, how is it, then, "reconquista"? How do you "re-conquer" where you never were?
Please help--or is there, actually, any rational explanation for all this self-deception?
, Art
Now, the archaeologist folks tell us that the Aztec lands were around Mexico City, and did not extend outward for any great distance. This makes sense, for as one travels northward, one finds desert. Chihuahua. Sonora. Baja California. Even Tamaulipas is irrigation-only farming country.
Since Aztecs weren't within many hundreds of miles of Texas or New Mexico or Arizona or California, how is it, then, "reconquista"? How do you "re-conquer" where you never were?
Please help--or is there, actually, any rational explanation for all this self-deception?
, ArtWaitone
Member
Virulent ideologies as they develop tend to develop a mythology of their history. For that matter they also tend to develop a religion (though it is never described as such) around their development. Communists and Nazis devloped a mythology supporting their ideology. Aztlan is no different. The more extreme and improbable an ideology the more extreme the mythology.
longeyes
member
Anyplace anyone ever said, "Como?" is part of Aztlan. That now includes Hartford, CT and Waukegan, IL.
Art's point is well-taken. I don't remember any Sun God-inspired human sacrificing in Hollywood--except on a movie set.
Art's point is well-taken. I don't remember any Sun God-inspired human sacrificing in Hollywood--except on a movie set.
Gordon Fink
Member
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
"This myth roughly coincides with the known history of the Aztecs as a barbarous horde that migrated from present-day northwestern Mexico into the central plateau sometime toward the end of the first millennium AD..."
Well, I'd say they got the "barbarous horde" part correct, for sure...
NW Mexico, hmmm? As in somewhere south of Nogales? Or Hermosillo? Or Durango? It sure wasn't a bunch of Aztecs sittin' around LA when the first Spaniards arrived...
Y'know, when ya pack up and abandon a place, it ain't yours, no mo'. Adios, sayonara, see ya down the road...
Art
Well, I'd say they got the "barbarous horde" part correct, for sure...
NW Mexico, hmmm? As in somewhere south of Nogales? Or Hermosillo? Or Durango? It sure wasn't a bunch of Aztecs sittin' around LA when the first Spaniards arrived...
Y'know, when ya pack up and abandon a place, it ain't yours, no mo'. Adios, sayonara, see ya down the road...
Art
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