Improving on a cast rifle load?

[brewer12345]

I will be using a cast load in my 3006 for deer later this month. The load is based on a big home cast bullet, a 198 grain gas checked flat nose with a big meplat of .19 inches or so. Over a charge of 4198 it gives usable deer hunting groups of 2 inches or so at 100 yards and would provide enough of a thump to drop a mulie to 200 yards. I would like to do better on accuracy for next year. Where should I start? Different powder? Different oal? Something else?

 

[edwardware]

In my experience the best improvement is to add a drawn copper jacket around a swaged lead core.

You might try weight sorting to select only the heaviest (free of off-center voids) bullets. This of course will drive you to reexamine casting/mold temp and tempo for consistency.

In the end, I'd be surprised if you improve on 2 MOA.

 

[brewer12345]

You'd be amazed. Another load based on the small lee soup can 30 cal bullet easily does 1 moa on a consistent basis.

 

[RecoilRob]

This is part of the fun of cast bullets.....experimenting to find what works and then working to find what works better. How are your velocity spreads? Sometimes a bit more or less powder (usually more) will tighten up the ES and SD but then runs the risk of over-driving the alloy in the rifling. Different alloys will obturate better or worse as well as lubes perhaps being worth experimenting with. Is the bullet running out of lube down the tube?

You are very right that a good cast bullet load in the right rifle can shoot VERY well....and a great load can shoot even better. A consistent alloy is a great place to start so you have a known quantity if you're using scrap or wheel weights. You said 'home cast' and if you are using a known alloy forgive me for even mentioning wheel weights. Different heat treatment could alter the bullets characteristics enough to affect accuracy too....LOTS to play with in the search for better accuracy.

Personally I'm not that worried about better accuracy and my cast rifle loads will usually do 2" groups which is adequate for most purposes. I do know how to search for better....just too lazy I guess.

 

[Charlie98]

If you are an experimenting type, and you think you can get more out of it, try IMR3031 or even IMR4895. I use IMR3031 with 170grn cast GC bullets in the .308 (for my Savage 99) and it works very, very well.

 

[Galil5.56]

First variable I like to consider is bullet diameter, then alloy/hardness, then lube. I like to have a bullet as large a diameter that can be seated, and chambered in the rifle... Barrels make the perfect sizer IMO and experience, so the bigger the better even w/o much bump-up. .310/.311, maybe even .312" may be the diameter your rifle likes, and will only be known when tried.

I do like gas checks, especially with softer alloys and moderate/higher speeds. Great expansion can be had, as can very good accuracy. Seem to recall being able to go up to around 1600 fps or so w/o gaschecks, and still not have leading issues. Still really like 50/50 NRA lube, and also find adding some Johnson's paste wax a benefit. God, there was a time I was like a crazy alchemist trying new lube concoctions, and while fun, never really amounted to much.

One last note - It sure was nice WAAAAAY back to be able to walk into a print shop, and buy very cheap Linotype, then head over the street and get a nearly free 5 gal bucket of tire weights... Had to wade through cig butts, tire stems and a lot of tire stickers/trash, but man was shooting cheap, fun, and enjoyable.

 

[brewer12345]

I have a pound of 4895, so maybe that is a good place to start.

As for diameter, I cast 3 checked bullets for this rifle and they end up from .3095 to .311. Much bigger and I think I would have a tough time fitting them in the case and chamber.

 

[Curator]

Buy and read Veral Smith's (LBT bullet moulds) book: "Jacketed bullet performance from Cast Bullets." In it he has several tips that will help you boost velocity, accuracy and bullet performance. I would also suggest using a slower powder like IMR4895. It will give you higher velocities at lower pressure and burns well even in reduced loadings.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I prefer H4895, however, my .35Rem (Marlin M336C) prefers BLC2.
I shoot a 200gr Lee .311-200gr FNGC through my M1 Garands. It gets~2,000fps, cycles the actions (just barely), and meets/exceeds your 2moa.

Don’t overlook RL15, and Varget.

A good hunting bullet alloy may not give you the accuracy you desire. Alloys hard enough to give best accuracy may be too hard to expand. I prefer 50/50 lead to wheelweight plus ~2oz 95/5 leadfree solder (Tin-antimony).
For harder, I have about 200lbs of Linotype I keep squirreled away.
I’m satisfied with 2moa with my hunting loads.
ColAskins, a long deceased gun writer used to state that few of his famous wildcat cartridge heavy game rifles were better than 3moa accurate but he killed many heads of large/dangerous game with them.
Join us over at www.castboolits.com. Infinite amount of knowledge over there!

 

[brewer12345]

Already over at castboolits, just casting a wider net here.

I mostly cast out of air cooled COWW plus a couple percent tin for rifles, range lead plus tin (pewter) for plain based pistol bullets. I have a couple hundred pounds of lino to experiment with, but I am well aware that if you want a bullet that will deform on impact it needs to be on the softer side. When I find the time to cast again, a 50/50 alloy of lino and range scrap is something I want to try in a 30 cal bullet to see if I can drive it fast and accurately. I will probably try casting Lee soup cans out of that alloy because they are target bullets and/or small game loads where I don't need or want expansion.

2 MOA will kill deer inside 150 yards or so, no problem and I am good with that. I suppose the accuracy bug has not released its grip on me. I know I can get 1 MOA or better with jacketed (have done so with Partitions), but they aren't bullets that I made. It just isn't the same.

I think after hunting season is over I will experiment with Varget and 4895 with the heavy cast bullet. I also have to try again with 35 Rem, as the load that worked great in the cold when I developed it (4198 based) was all over the place in 70F weather. GooseGestapo, where would you start working up with the heavy 30 cal bullet using Varget?

 

[brewer12345]

Heh, I just plugged my little 118 grain soup can bullet into a ballistics calculator at the 2300 FPS Lyman says they got with 19 grains of unique and #2 alloy. The numbers make it look like a viable deer load to at least 125 yards. I stopped pushing this bullet at 12 grains because all I was after was a plinker. Doesn't seem like enough lead for a real deer load, but it could be fun to fool with to see how fast I can push this thing with a harder alloy and maybe powder coating.

 

[Galil5.56]

Some food for thought - Shown are Lee 150 grain cast bullets w/gaschecks sized .309", that have a very small meplat, recovered from very soft clay 100 yards distant. Load was 17 grains of Unique with no filler, alloy was straight wheel weights, lube NRA 50/50. Lyman data was current at the time of loading (1983/84). I loaded this combo countless times, and it was accurate and hard hitting... Figure velocity at 1900 fps+, and I can't see how this would not crush deer at close range.

Also Used Red Dot with a charge of 14 grains (about 1700 fps), and International Clays @ 9.2 grains (measured velocity of 1326 fps avg) w/o gaschecks. Accuracy was/is very good for all of them. Even did super low velocity loadings to hunt squirrel, and rabbit - I believe the load was 5 grains of Red Dot w/a Dacron filler, and should be about 950 fps.

Good luck.

 

[brewer12345]

Galil, I load the same bullet over 25 grains of 2400 for velocity approaching 2000 FPS. Plenty accurate at 100 yards, but with the small meplat and lower weight I would want to limit it to a 100 shot on deer. Where I will be hunting mulies this month there are a fair number of open areas where the shots are 150+ yards, hence my preference for the bigger bullet with a much higher BC/better ballistics. When the time comes where 100 yards would be a long shot, I might break out the Lee 150 load or use a cast load in my 35 Rem.