IMR 4198 load

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

heymarine1833

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
68
Location
Southern Illinois
hi folks and thank you for allowing me to join your forum. yes, i'm new here and figured i had better contribute something. because powder we want is difficult to obtain, im currently using powders i can find that no one wants to load and make them work. one powder i found on the shelf was IMR 4198. i could not find any good loads for this powder and 5.56, but had a pound to try. i worked up this load with the Quick Load program in case you were interested. saves me a lot of time that i don't have. anyway, this is what i worked up and if i can somehow figure how to post a picture i will.

this is the load and very accurate in the M4 rifle
note: bullets were coated in hex-boron nitride for 3 hours and bore was swabbed with an HBN solution prior to testing.

21.2 GRAINS IMR 4198 REMINGTON BR 7.5 PRIMERS CASE LENGETH 1.745
SEEMED TO BE CLOSER ON TARGET THAN THE H-4895. METERED VERY WELL.

SET UP POWDER MEASURE VERY QUICKLY WITH THIS POWDER. NO PRESSURE
SIGNS. POWDER SOMETIMES MOVES.1 GRAIN + - FROM DILLON POWDER MEASURE BUT NOTHING NEARLY AS HORRIBLE AS H-4895




21DEC14 47*
bullets coated with hex-boron nitride/bore swabbed with HBN solution

COLT LE6920
21.2 GR IMR 4198
60 GR SIERRA HP
REMINGTON 7.5 BR PRIMERS

lake city brass trimmed to 1.745
OAL= 2.255
----------------------
HI- 2807FPS
LO- 2677FPS
AVE VEL= 2751.5
EXTREME SPREAD 130
SD = 32.9

FORGOT TO ADD THAT THERE ARE 10 SHOTS INSIDE THIS HOLE, SHOT INTO AN OLD REFRIGERATOR@100YDS
 

Attachments

  • 21.2 grains imr 4198 in M4 rifle.JPG
    21.2 grains imr 4198 in M4 rifle.JPG
    10.5 KB · Views: 68
Last edited:
with coated bullets he is still over pressure on quickload for .223 rem. with a max pressure of 55,000 PSI. Showing 55,835 PSI. would be fine in a 5.56 chamber as the max pressure of that chamber is 62,000 PSI.
 
the powder is a bit fast for the .223 fine for the 60 gr. and down bullets though. I have done this out of the powder shortage with H-380 and .223 rem.
 
Last edited:
IMR 4198 is not a bit too slow for the .223.

In fact it's a bit too fast.
Especially with heavier bullets.

rc
 
I think IMR 4198 is just about a perfect powder for my Son and I in our 223`s and .556`s. We have been using 21grs of IMR 4198 under a 52 gr BTHP Match Bullet by Speer, Sierra, or Hornady, since 1983, which ever one we can find when we needed a new supply of bullets. All three of these bullets shoot extremly well for us. The 50 gr & 55 gr X-Max Bullets work very well for us, but the 52 A-Max does a great job for us also. We shoot this load of 21 grs of IMR 4198, with all of the bullets I listed in all of our 223 Bolt Gun`s & AR15`s. I just seat the bullets so they will feed thru the magazines of our AR15`s and shoot the same length in our all of our Bolt Guns, it is easier for me that way. I am not a very high tech reloader. I have been told this load should give us about 3100 fps to 3200 fps, I don`t have a chrony. We get 1 inch or under at a 100yds in all of our 223`s and .556`s. And this load sure works on the Coyotes, PD`s and Varmints we shoot. Belive it or not a Texas Cowgirl gave me this load in a Furrs Grocercy Store in Amarillo TX. She said She was using that load in Her Sako Vixen 223. I followed Her out of the store and She was driving a Big GMC Dulley Pick Up, pulling a 4 place Horse Trailer with 4 horse`s in it when She drove off the stores parking lot. I am pretty sure She was the real deal, and.

I will be for ever great full to Her forgiving me Her 223 load, it is the best I have ever used. I will always be indebted to that Pretty Lady, and I never even got her name.
ken
 
rcmodel said:
IMR 4198 is not a bit too slow for the .223.

In fact it's a bit too fast.
Especially with heavier bullets.

rc
Click to expand...
sorry, your correct. I was thinking IMR-4350 got side tracked with the H-380 area. the quickload data posted is correct though.
 
Whoa! First thing that I feel is very important to add here is that if this load was dangerous, I would NOT have posted it. Secondly, I think you guys either misread my post especially at the top or are getting .223 and 5.56 chambers confused. I never wrote anything about .223. I wrote about 5.56. I even listed the rifle, which is not a .223 but rather a 5.56 nato chambered rifle. All Colt LE models are 5.56 nato..not .223. I cannot find any loads published using imr 4198 with the sierra 60 grain hp and so I worked up the load using quick load. I think it did a very good job.
Now. Back to the forum. The reason I shot into an old refrigerator was because it was getting dark and I could barely see the black crosshairs against the black target. It was much easier to see a white fridge with black crosshairs so I group tested there instead. And gone through all the trouble you ask? Like everyone here, I reload as a hobby. With hobbies, we go through a lot of unnecessary “rituals” that we like to do. So, no, it is no trouble for me. I thought you guys would appreciate something new from a new guy. Maybe I was wrong?
The hodgdon manual from what I recall lists minimums and maximums for all calibers except for 5.56 and other military chambers/cartridges. The sierra manual has a special AR section but listed mainly Vihtivori powders which I do not have nor have even seen the last 10 years.
The 5.56 pressure max is 62336 psi. My load was 49981 psi with a friction reducer. Not sure how we all can point fingers as to what load is listed above max according to a manual when some are discussing a different chamber.
On this load, I weighed my cases with water and recorded, trimmed all brass to 1.745, weighed bullet, measured bullet length( they do differ sometimes) plated bullets, measured oal, barrel length, powder brand and weight and inputted all this in quick load. also, i cleaned the gas tube with brake cleaner and lubed the bolt/carrier group with ams oil 20w50 motorcycle oil. quick load saved me a lot of time that I do not have anymore.

All my bullets are either moly plated or HBN coated using the same method of impact plating. The bore is either swabbed with moly or hbn solution depending on what the bullet was plated with. Really enjoyed this load and fired 100 more. I liked this so much, I thought some of you may enjoy it also in your M4 rifles. I guess you could read up on HBN on bullets. Interesting I think. You will not need copper remover anymore. It’s cleaner than moly. Check out www.bulletcoatings.com they have an inexpensive kit or you can just buy the powder. I already had clean steel shot from neco so I just took the powder.
I didn’t join this forum to stir the hornets’ nest guys. I joined to offer new loads and learn a lot too. We are all here to learn and share. Stay tuned because I have another one to test and with the same powder.
attached is the quick load data. hope this is clear enough to read otherwise ill try again.
Semper Fi
 

Attachments

  • IMR 4198.JPG
    IMR 4198.JPG
    23.3 KB · Views: 18
i bought my last imr 4198 keg from natchezz. you might try ballistic products as well. hope that helps a little. natchezz had it to my door in 2 days. ballistic products is a week but both have good stuff
 
i backed you up with the 5.56 chamber in post #6. We do appreciate the effort and information. thanks and welcome to THR.

P.S. most new people that come on here are not experienced loaders so it seems all loads are scrutinized to the point they will make an assumption of say a different chamber lol. It is all for the best and safety i'm sure no one meant to put down your load or ability to make load data.
 
I use 22 grains of 4198 under a 40 grain nosler in my bolt .223 .it will shoot one ragged hole all day.
 
223/5.56mm Pressure

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
heymarine1833, thank you for the update. We do appreciate the effort and information.
Your new to the forum, but not to reloading. You have done you homework (workup). I shot a Colt M16, Mini14, AR180 with IMR 4198 - 21.5 gr. and many different 55 gr bullets. No pressure problems. But i was using old Dupont powder. Hodgdon now has it made else where, IMR4198 (AR2215) so i have to wonder if the powder is exactly the same?? Good shooting on the frig. How pressure is measured for 223/5.56mm > http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5945000&postcount=25 :confused: See chapter 10 here http://www.tuffsteel.com/manuals/armyammodata.pdf
 
Last edited:
5.56×45mm NATO - stanag 4172 pdf

Maximum pressure 430.00 MPa (62,366 psi) http://ammunitionstore.com/content/5.56%C3%9745mm%20NATO.pdf
Pressure
The NATO specification measures pressure differently, which can lead to higher allowable peak pressures. NATO
EPVAT test barrels made for 5.56 mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the
location used by the United States civil standards organization SAAMI. The piezoelectric sensors or transducers
NATO and SAAMI use to conduct the actual pressure measurements also differ. This difference in measurement
method accounts for upwards of 20,000 psi (140 MPa) difference in pressure measurements. This means the NATO
EPVAT maximum service pressure of 430 MPa (62,000 psi) for 5.56 mm NATO, is reduced by SAAMI to
55,000 psi (380 MPa) for .223 Remington.[31] In contrast to SAAMI, the other main civil standards organization
C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm
NATO.
Click to expand...
I think i will stick with start low and work up as always.
 
heymarine1833,

the sierra manual shows a max powder charge of imr4198 as 21.1gn for your bullet (this is in the 223 remington (ar-15) section. we normally show a warning in our posts when a charge is over the "book" recommended charge (we are a bit cautious here).

c.o.l. for that load is 2.250", per the manual (you may want to adjust yours down).

velocity for the 21.1gn loading is 2950 fps (difference is probably the 20" barrel sierra is using for their load data).

their test rifle is the colt ar-15a2 hbar (a 5.56 nato chamber).

saami transducer pressure measurements are different than c.i.p. measurements, are different than saami crusher measurements. they are not comparable whatsoever.

be safe and welcome to the high road.

murf
 
if this is true then why do they say not to shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber? it Should not matter.
 
the 5.56 chamber is longer than the 223 remington. if you happen to load a "long neck" 5.56 round in a shorter 223 remington chamber, there might be a problem. i'm guessing foriegn military ammo may have the longer necks.

as a precaution, we are told not to load the nato rounds into the 223 remington chambers.

fwiw,

murf
 
Hi. The Quick Load program is not, never was nor ever will be a substitute for a proper loading manual. There are far too many variables that programmers tend to know nothing about(been a computer tech fixing programmers' mistakes for 20 years.) for any computer program to be accurate.
21.2 grains of IMR4198 is 1.7 over max for a 60 grain bullet according to Hodgdon. Probably will not be enough to damage anything though.
 
Same pressure - 5.56 vs 223

BigBore45 if this is true then why do they say not to shoot 5.56 in a .223 chamber? it Should not matter.
Click to expand...
Nato chambers have a larger volume. Takes more powder to reach a certain pressure/velocity. A 55,000 psi Nato round placed into a smaller SAAMI chamber/volume will produce more pressure/velocity. The chambers volume runs from the bolt face to when the bullet seals the bore. QuickLoad owners should run a test. Reduce a volume by 5% and tell us how much pressure increases? If it does? May not be a good test, because the difference in free bore, throat/leade is not figured in? The 5.56 being longer/more volume. This is how i see it. Right or Wrong?
 
heymarine1833 said:
Whoa! First thing that I feel is very important to add here is that if this load was dangerous, I would NOT have posted it. Secondly, I think you guys either misread my post especially at the top or are getting .223 and 5.56 chambers confused. I never wrote anything about .223. I wrote about 5.56. I even listed the rifle, which is not a .223 but rather a 5.56 nato chambered rifle. All Colt LE models are 5.56 nato..not .223. I cannot find any loads published using imr 4198 with the sierra 60 grain hp and so I worked up the load using quick load. I think it did a very good job.
Now. Back to the forum. The reason I shot into an old refrigerator was because it was getting dark and I could barely see the black crosshairs against the black target. It was much easier to see a white fridge with black crosshairs so I group tested there instead. And gone through all the trouble you ask? Like everyone here, I reload as a hobby. With hobbies, we go through a lot of unnecessary “rituals” that we like to do. So, no, it is no trouble for me. I thought you guys would appreciate something new from a new guy. Maybe I was wrong?
The hodgdon manual from what I recall lists minimums and maximums for all calibers except for 5.56 and other military chambers/cartridges. The sierra manual has a special AR section but listed mainly Vihtivori powders which I do not have nor have even seen the last 10 years.
The 5.56 pressure max is 62336 psi. My load was 49981 psi with a friction reducer. Not sure how we all can point fingers as to what load is listed above max according to a manual when some are discussing a different chamber.
On this load, I weighed my cases with water and recorded, trimmed all brass to 1.745, weighed bullet, measured bullet length( they do differ sometimes) plated bullets, measured oal, barrel length, powder brand and weight and inputted all this in quick load. also, i cleaned the gas tube with brake cleaner and lubed the bolt/carrier group with ams oil 20w50 motorcycle oil. quick load saved me a lot of time that I do not have anymore.

All my bullets are either moly plated or HBN coated using the same method of impact plating. The bore is either swabbed with moly or hbn solution depending on what the bullet was plated with. Really enjoyed this load and fired 100 more. I liked this so much, I thought some of you may enjoy it also in your M4 rifles. I guess you could read up on HBN on bullets. Interesting I think. You will not need copper remover anymore. It’s cleaner than moly. Check out www.bulletcoatings.com they have an inexpensive kit or you can just buy the powder. I already had clean steel shot from neco so I just took the powder.
I didn’t join this forum to stir the hornets’ nest guys. I joined to offer new loads and learn a lot too. We are all here to learn and share. Stay tuned because I have another one to test and with the same powder.
attached is the quick load data. hope this is clear enough to read otherwise ill try again.
Semper Fi
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Keep up the good work. I have been reloading for over 30+ years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

H
  • Locked
another new IMR 4198 LOAD for 5.56 chambered rifles
Replies
3
Views
1K
heymarine1833
H
Mikee Loxxer
  • Locked
IMR 4198 vs H4198
Replies
3
Views
1K
Jim Watson
J
A
  • Locked
Powder Identification - 4198
Replies
5
Views
795
AF_Reloader
A
1
  • Locked
h-4198 vs imr-4198??
Replies
8
Views
3K
ArchAngelCD
ArchAngelCD
luzyfuerza
  • Locked
Unreliabiliity with IMR 4198 in AR with Rifle Length Gas System
Replies
11
Views
3K
David4516
David4516
Back
Top