IMR powder question

[Schwing]

An older friend had a brother who passed. He had some reloading supplies he didn't know what to do with so gave me a few pounds of powder. They pass the look and smell test. They are all in the old metal cans (no rust). Some of them (IMR cans) are old enough that they still have the DuPont label. Here is the rundown

3 cans of 4198 (2 in the red IMR cans and one in the old yellow DuPont can)

2 cans of 3031 in the old DuPont cans

1 can of 4064 in the old DuPont can

3 cans of w760 in the old metal cans

Only one of the red cans of 4198 is still sealed so he used some out of all of these. Not being very familiar with these powders and seeing as how they all, with the exception of the 760, look almost identical, I am not sure if I am comfortable using them. The sealed can I trust but...

Any thoughts on telling them apart? About the only difference I can see is that the 4198 is a shade lighter than the 3031 and 4064. I am thinking they might need to be lawn food but I want to toss it out there in case someone knows some magic I don't.

If I were to use them, the only caliber I own that any of them would be suited for is .223.

Thanks for taking a look!

 

[Ironicaintit]

I used to trust sealed cans, until I popped open a sealed 4895 and found the rust dust and it smelled funky. Now, all of my NOS powder gets annual inspections, whether it was still sealed or not. I still have and use IMR in the cans (mid 80s era) and they are fine.

Looks good? Smells good? Go ahead and store it in little brass cases, with a copper cap.

 

[climbnjump]

Well, old powder from someone who you don't know (maybe they violated the only-one-can-on-the-bench-at-a-time rule?). Even though the cans look good, do you know if they were stored in a hot shed or garage for years? Lot's of unknowns...

I know folks use powder that old with no problem, but usually that's powder that's been in their possession the whole time so they know the history. I have a couple cans of Red Dot still in the Hercules cardboard "cans" and it still makes good trap loads. But I was the original purchaser.

I know you said that the powder passes the look and smell tests, but I guess if it were mine and I didn't know the "storage/usage history" of it, I would toss it. But that's just me...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The powders you got can be used to load the 45-70, 30-30, .308, 30-06 and a few more. If the source was an old timer reloaded they are probably safe to use. You have some very good powders there.

Don't throw out the cans, they are collectable... Now very valuable but collectable none the less.

 

[243winxb]

Old Powder

http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=163 The 4198 may run a little smaller in size then the other IMRs. In the 223, loading a 55gr bullet, i think i would load 1 round with each IMR powder at 19 grs. There are not many/any (?) IMR powders the same shape/size and faster burn rate than 4198 in the IMR brand. This would be after comparing the size of the kernels of powder.

 

[243winxb]

Looks like IMR SR 4759 is a faster burn rate than 4198 and does look a bit like the other powders. So maybe above is not a good idea?

 

[matrem]

Have loaded a fair amount of IMR 4198 & even a bit more of 4064 over the years. Can't recall if I've used 3031. And yep, 760 looks far different than those extruded ones.

If those cans were sealed, or even closed tightly you're fine.

What reason would that fella have had to mix or put different powders into a can? There is a bit of difference in the color, length, and diameter of those extruded (mechanical pencil lead) IMR powders, but for that matter, if the guy would have mixed those up, I'd question the 760, could be 748 or H322 for all you know.

Bottom line: I'd test them all on the low end and treat em as marked.

 

[Bama Drifter]

At any rate, PLZ don't throw away the vintage tins. They look cool as hell in a garage, next to a cartridge board, etc. I get a kick out of seeing the metal can photos in Handloader and Guns & Ammo. Must just be one of my eccentricities.

 

[Grumulkin]

Shot with IMR 3031 from an antique collectable metal can from back when a pound went for $16.44. A few months ago I finished off a can of IMR 4064 I had bought back in the 1980s but alas I discarded it.

I would certainly be putting the old guys powder to good use.

 

[243winxb]

My old IMR powders, fired in a bolt action.

FYI - i have loaded/shot IMR 4198, 3031, 4895, 4064 in the 223 in the last 3 or 4 years. Just loaded the last of 10 lbs Dupont 4198. The Savage axis has to date over 1800 rounds fired. Some loads are more accurate than others, depending on the bullet loaded. Over the years there were other guns , from single shot Contenders to a M16. Great little fun cartridge, the 223/5.56. The point is, i may not take a chance on the correct powder being in each can, even with all that i think i know. At 71, still learning.

 

[Schwing]

I appreciate all of the responses. Part of my hesitation here is that I am completely new to reloading .223 on top of the questionable powder. I have an 8 pound jug of H335 on the way so I am going to start out with that. I don't think I will toss any of the powder just yet. I will get a little more familiar with the .223 and then decide whether to give it a try.

 

[Ironicaintit]

If the age of it is what's holding you back; I'd load those first then plink them away.
Then use the 335 to load as "long term investments". That way, you are 30 years or so ahead in potential shelf life.
If you hold onto the old powder any lager, you will surely convince yourself to toss it.

When I first started out with 5.56, the powders I worked up were 3031 and 4198, both powders being from those old metal cans. They work great, and pretty closely match what the books said they'd do.

Don't worry too much about their age. Pour the cans out into a container...any red dust? That's the first telltale sign. Give it a whiff, does it smell offensive?
If no to both of those, that powder is fine.

 

[mdi]

I appreciate all of the responses. Part of my hesitation here is that I am completely new to reloading .223 on top of the questionable powder. I have an 8 pound jug of H335 on the way so I am going to start out with that. I don't think I will toss any of the powder just yet. I will get a little more familiar with the .223 and then decide whether to give it a try.

In that case, I'd say store these "old" powders until you have experience reloading the .223 and then incorporate your "old" powders in you reloading. Get familiar with reloading with known good (new) components then try "not 100% sure of" components...

 

[luzyfuerza]

I'm with mdi, and others...be careful about using old powders.

Although not directly related to the OP's question about IMR powders, my recent experience with Bullseye may be helpful:

My BIL recently gave me a 4-lb can of Bullseye in an OLD, red steel can. I wanted to compare this old powder to canisters of Bullseye that had been recently purchased and which I knew to have been properly stored so I loaded up some 9mm rounds using both powders. All variables, except for the powder charge, were held constant.

In this case, the "old" Bullseye produced velocities 51 fps higher than the "new" Bullseye for the same charge weight. I had to reduce the charge of the "old" powder by 0.4 grains to equal the velocity of the "new" powder.

That being done, I happily loaded up a bunch of rounds using the "old" powder. I shoot these rounds regularly in practice. They work great.

I have no idea why the two batches of powder might produce different velocities. The old powder didn't smell "off", and there was no evidence of red dust. The formulation may have simply changed over the years.

Don't automatically dump old powder on the lawn, just because its old. But do be careful when using it.

 

[Schwing]

I'm with mdi, and others...be careful about using old powders.

Although not directly related to the OP's question about IMR powders, my recent experience with Bullseye may be helpful:

My BIL recently gave me a 4-lb can of Bullseye in an OLD, red steel can. I wanted to compare this old powder to canisters of Bullseye that had been recently purchased and which I knew to have been properly stored so I loaded up some 9mm rounds using both powders. All variables, except for the powder charge, were held constant.

In this case, the "old" Bullseye produced velocities 51 fps higher than the "new" Bullseye for the same charge weight. I had to reduce the charge of the "old" powder by 0.4 grains to equal the velocity of the "new" powder.

That being done, I happily loaded up a bunch of rounds using the "old" powder. I shoot these rounds regularly in practice. They work great.

I have no idea why the two batches of powder might produce different velocities. The old powder didn't smell "off", and there was no evidence of red dust. The formulation may have simply changed over the years.

Don't automatically dump old powder on the lawn, just because its old. But do be careful when using it.

That's good to know about bullseye. I ended up with 2 pounds of that as well. I currently use a lot of bullseye in .38 and some in .45acp. It doesn't look AS old as it is in a plastic bottle but it has a really old looking label that is different than the current label. There was also a smidge of unique in an old Hercules cardboard canister. The canister is pretty cool though there is such a small amount left that it isn't worth worrying about.

The real tragedy is that there was an 8 pound jug about half full labled unique that had a handwritten label on it that said H335. It did look like H335 but it smelled rancid and, with it being mislabeled, it wasn't a tough choice to dump. It certainly does green up your lawn where you dump it.

 

[Walkalong]

The first powder I bought in "bulk" was a paper bag full of 700X from an older reloaders stash his son sold off. I am still using some SR-4759 from metal cans and have one more each unopened metal can left of 3031 and 4895.

If it looks good, smells good, and you can believe it is the original powder for the can it is in, use it.

Do you believe?