In a vacuum, ceteris paribus, 9x19mm vs. .38 special +P

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Forget gun, forget capacity, forget everything. Just taking into account cartridge only, if you could somehow wave a magic wand and make everything else constant, which one do you think has more devastation power against a violent aggressor? Which would you choose if you could guarantee either would function perfectly in the gun of your choice:

1. 9mm luger HP (slightly lighter, slightly faster bullet with full jacket up to the HP - no exposed lead & less meplat)

OR

2. .38 Special +P (slightly heavier, if you're so inclined, slightly slower bullet with an exposed lead HP and wider meplat)

What say you???

 

[Deanimator]

I always prefer a heavier bullet if possible. Combine that with a soft lead bullet that will always expand more reliably than a JHP and my choice is the 158gr. LSWC-HP of the "FBI" load.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would (and did) choose the .38 Special +P over the 9mm every time. I also carry the current "FBI Load" offered by Remington. (158gr LSWC/HP Part #R38S12)

 

[Loomis]

I dunno. Whatsa "meplat"?

 

[Brian Williams]

Meplat is the flat on the front of the bullet.
I would choose a 9mm.

 

[Loomis]

Muzzle energy for each is about 350. If you are allowing +P for the 38 special, why are you not allowing +P for the 9mm?

ignoring magazine capacity, the two are about equal. But if you allow +P for the 9mm, then the obvious choice becomes 9mm. The 9mm will outperform the FBI load 38 special +P in very short barrels. In longer barrels, the FBI load may have a slight edge in terms of accuracy.

I'd call it a wash.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Loomis,
Yes the 9mm +P will push the bullet faster but that doesn't mean it will outperform the .38 Special. The FBI load will stop the bad guy better than a 115gr bullet pushed to over 1200 fps. Over penetration is also a problem with a Jacketed 9mm +P round.

 

[C-grunt]

I like heavy over light. I think the 9mm will expand more but the 38 will penetrated more. Also if no expansion occurs, I think the 38's bigger meplat will cause more damage.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

ok, then:

Compare +P .38 special with +P 9x19 for purposes of my question. Thanks.

Hmmm, now I'm wondering if "meplat" is the proper term to use for a hollowpoint - as just the raw measurement of the width of the two widest points on the nose of the bullet, or not?

 

[Loucks]

Honestly, I don't think there's enough difference between the two to matter, which is why we don't consider them in a vaccuum as a rule.

 

[minh]

why in a vacuum?
most if not all of us will never have to defend ourselves in space or anything like that

 

[austin360]

Why and when would you shoot a gun in vacuum?

 

[19-3Ben]

Why and when would you shoot a gun in vacuum?

To defend yourself from vacuum zombies. durrr.......

 

[Loosedhorse]

Well let's see...

I carry a .38 with 158 gr Nyclad SWCLHPs.

I own a 9 mm, but don't carry it much. So I guess I've voted

(Admitted a silly answer, but a rather silly question isn't it?)--

I look at it this way (admittedly NOT a vacuum scenario): suppose you've got a really bad-tempered dog (pit bull, Doberman, whatever scares you the most) barreling down at you (this is actually more likely for me than facing a bad-guy). Since you aren't carrying your 12 gauge, which of these two calibers would you reach for as Bruiser starts his leap for your throat (or your nethers)?

(Hint--my other carry gun is 10 mm).

 

[Loomis]

archangelCD:

For hollowpoint ammo out of pistols, slow heavy bullets penetrate more than light fast bullets. The 9mm+P hollowpoint will not penetrate more than a 158 grain hollowpoint 38 special.
iirc

premiumsauces: Now that +P is allowed for 9mm, it's no contest. 9mm+P wins easily. Especially if we are using extremely short barreled pistols.

 

[jaholder1971]

.38 special beats out the 9mm in the accuracy department. You can find plenty of PPC/Bullseye guns out there chambered in .38 Special but with few exceptions find a 9mm platform that compares is difficult. The only examples i can think of is S&W's 952 (based off the old Model 52 in, yep, .38 Special) or an AMU match conditioned M9.

In the SD department, 9mm seems to have a bit better bullet selection from all the bullet development since 1986.

SO: It's a wash.

 

[Snowdog]

Which would you choose if you could guarantee either would function perfectly in the gun of your choice:

Well now, see... that criterion undoubtedly skews my answer as the "gun of my choice" would be an automatic and thus possess a higher capacity than anything in .38 special (not to mention the 9mm being rimless).

If they were both chambered in a revolver of the same capacity, I'd likely choose the .38 special as the case capacity allows me more options with heavier loads or heavier charges (as I handload).

Though if in an automatic, assuming there existed a .38 special with a 15+ magazine capacity (which would make for a deep magazine being the .38 is rimmed), I would very likely choose the 9mm. I gravitate towards the heavier offerings of most handgun calibers and settled on the 147gr in the 9mm cartridge, which some feel is essentially a hot .38 special.

 

[kmbrman]

38 Sp. vs. 9mm

Right now there is so much overlap in the newer 38s and the newest 9mm loads, it is hard to make a bad decision with either one ! Especially since Speer has introduced the Short Barrel 38s , and new 147 gr. loads in 9mm jhp. are expanding at slower speeds and have good penetration as well.

 

[Noxx]

I feel I could count on either. I'm very happy with the performance of the new Speer load in the 642 / 442.

 

[woolfam]

I don't know about a 9mm or a .38 Spl in a vacuum, but my brother sucked a primer up in one when he was sweeping the carpet in the den.

That got pretty exciting.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

The .38 is more versatile in that there are more bullet weights and shapes available. Terminal performance comparison is so similar as to be meaningless, so, unless you get to choose the platform, there is no point in arguing advantages or disadvantages of one over the other.

 

[cerberus65]

9mm is for automatics, .38 special is for revolvers. Pick your platform and the rest is easy. 9mm has a bit more muzzle energy, .38 special has lots more and heavier bullet options. In the end, the ballistics are not so dissimilar. So pick your platform...

BTW, I know revolvers have been chambered in 9mm but I doubt I could go down to my favorite gun store and find one.

I prefer revolvers so .38 special is my pick. I have a 9 and I like it but not as much as I like my revolvers.


And in the completely useless department...

I don't know of any band named 9mm but it someone ever did use that name I bet they wouldn't be as good as Donnie Van Zant and the boys.

 

[chupacabrah]

everybody says heavy vs light....but apples to apples, what about
147 gr 9mm+p VERSUS 158 gr .38 special +P ?


I'm thinking they are similar enough to be about the same either way, and more be determined by what one feels most comfortable shooting.

So I'll vote 9mm, because I don't shoot +P anything.

 

[krs]

I used to like to carry my detective special in an ankle holster loaded with full wadcutters in front of a +P load of powder. Never shot anybody with it but when I shot against or into various media from watermelons to steel plate those wadcutters made a horrific mess. Not too accurate but neither was I shooting a 1 7/8" revolver, but even today it's hard to imagine a much nastier load to be hit with than a flat fronted lead wadcutter loaded hot. I remember measuring one of those .38 special splats against steel plate that I picked up off the ground at 1.3x".

Figured that unless the recipient was wearing plate armor those would make him stop and think, for sure.

So because there's more space in the case to get creative with I'd vote for .38 Special on the blunderbuss principle.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

what about
147 gr 9mm+p VERSUS 158 gr .38 special +P ?

The problem is with bullet shape. A lot of hollowpoints will fill up with debris on the way to the target (if you are shooting through a coat for example ((the bad guy's coat!))). This makes the 9mm bullet act like a RNL projectile since it needs the streamlined shape to feed properly. Since the .38 does not need to be streamlined, even if the hollowpoint fills up and acts like a "solid", you still have that SWC big flat front that creates a more substantive wound channel than the RNL.