In light of recent events should we lay low?
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DoubleTapDrew
Member
The bradys might be wringing their hands, but guns haven't commited any crimes, criminals have. We aren't criminals. We are the ones that are most likely to cut a killer's rampage short.
DSAPT9
Member
I agree that we have nothing to hide. I am very sad for the families of the victims and my prayers go out to them.
I am not evil because I own firearms and enjoy shooting them and I will not hide because of the actions of sick demented people. What is now happening in America has happened in every country and every generation sense time has begun. The difference is the media today now shows it real time and pounds it home that all gun owner are evil. Look at Jack the ripper, Lizzy Borden just 2 whack jobs that did not fire a shot yet they managed to kill no less. England has banned almost every type of firearm for civilian use so the sick people have turned to the knife and managed to kill defenseless people anyway.
So to answer your question I will not be the enemy just because I am a law abiding citizen who enjoy firearms!!!
I am not evil because I own firearms and enjoy shooting them and I will not hide because of the actions of sick demented people. What is now happening in America has happened in every country and every generation sense time has begun. The difference is the media today now shows it real time and pounds it home that all gun owner are evil. Look at Jack the ripper, Lizzy Borden just 2 whack jobs that did not fire a shot yet they managed to kill no less. England has banned almost every type of firearm for civilian use so the sick people have turned to the knife and managed to kill defenseless people anyway.
So to answer your question I will not be the enemy just because I am a law abiding citizen who enjoy firearms!!!
Guns did not kill anyone.
HUMANS killed people.
Should we all hide the fact that we are all human?
We must remember that wars have been fought, and murders commited LONG before gun powder. It isn't a tool that choses its application but rather the soul of the human wielding it.
This is the inescapable truth that few want to accept.
-- John
HUMANS killed people.
Should we all hide the fact that we are all human?
We must remember that wars have been fought, and murders commited LONG before gun powder. It isn't a tool that choses its application but rather the soul of the human wielding it.
This is the inescapable truth that few want to accept.
-- John
rscalzo
Member
I don't think the vast majority of firearm's owners think any different.
But I'm at a loss to see how a segment of society "lays low"? The incidents of the past were sad. even more so as they were committed by the everyday guy who just lost it.
Years back we were working to find the everyday Joe who lost it and was stealing cars and randomly running down pedestrians, killing a few. Sad but no one expected the general public to stop driving.
when the medical fields can decode the inner working of the human mind they can stop these events. Makes for great science fiction but probably not reality for a thousand years or so. Humans are individuals and anyone can act in a way never expected. But a ultra small percentage of society should not be responsible for ruling the masses.
loneviking
Member
I don't think we need to lay low, as the Second Amendment issue in these cases is that the exercise of the Second Amendment was prohibited! These types of mass killings simply don't take place where citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons.
What does concern me is the field day that the press is having with this and the complete absence of commentary by anyone who supports the second amendment. Where's Susanna Huff? Or Wayne LaPierre? I don't doubt that they would love to comment on some of the press's statements, but it doesn't look like they are going to be allowed to do that.
What does concern me is the field day that the press is having with this and the complete absence of commentary by anyone who supports the second amendment. Where's Susanna Huff? Or Wayne LaPierre? I don't doubt that they would love to comment on some of the press's statements, but it doesn't look like they are going to be allowed to do that.
SCKimberFan
Member
Momentary thread hijack:
More and more of these shootings are being commited by gun owners who acquired their firearms legally. The difference is that they are losing touch with reality and going off the deep end.
Back to the thread:
Good PR is the first step to gaining public acceptance. We need to push our orgs to promote some of these events to allow the public to see we're not looney tunes, but real people, just like them.
More and more of these shootings are being commited by gun owners who acquired their firearms legally. The difference is that they are losing touch with reality and going off the deep end.
Back to the thread:
Good PR is the first step to gaining public acceptance. We need to push our orgs to promote some of these events to allow the public to see we're not looney tunes, but real people, just like them.
More and more of these shootings are being commited by gun owners who acquired their firearms legally. The difference is that they are losing touch with reality and going off the deep end.
+100
It remains to be seen what was the status of the Pitt. shooter's legal ownership of his AK, but the Pitt. shooter, as stated in the news media by his best friend, "had feared 'the Obama gun ban that's on the way' and 'didn't like our rights being infringed upon,' ". I'm not saying this was the root cause for him going off the deep end but if he was fearing this potential "ban" and seeing LE swarm his house, that probably played a significant part in him doing what he did.
this type of conspiracy theories that go on and on on here and other gun sites really doesn't help our cause. Fears about a civil war, protecting yourself from the US military and LE, etc. just makes you look like a gun nut and doesn't help sway elected officials to help your cause.
+100
It remains to be seen what was the status of the Pitt. shooter's legal ownership of his AK, but the Pitt. shooter, as stated in the news media by his best friend, "had feared 'the Obama gun ban that's on the way' and 'didn't like our rights being infringed upon,' ". I'm not saying this was the root cause for him going off the deep end but if he was fearing this potential "ban" and seeing LE swarm his house, that probably played a significant part in him doing what he did.
this type of conspiracy theories that go on and on on here and other gun sites really doesn't help our cause. Fears about a civil war, protecting yourself from the US military and LE, etc. just makes you look like a gun nut and doesn't help sway elected officials to help your cause.
krs
Member
That hearsay is what the media told us his friend said. It wouldn't stand up in court.
I wonder what the friend really said.
12131
Member
"lay low"? 
Well, I think every person walking on this earth has some kind of quirk or eccentricity.
From what I've heard about the shootings in the news is that these people may have just "snapped". The media broadcasts the fact that these guys were frustrated, depressed, and maybe a little bit paranoid. Now, think about all the people you have met in your life that fit that description. Pretty long list?
A lot of people I know are going through the wringer; a friend of mine just got the big "D" bomb dropped on him by his wife; an immediate coworker of mine is going through the same thing, and he's also had a son pass away very recently. A buddy of mine has been laid off two times from two different companies. People are getting the screws put to them by this economy. Yet, somehow they carry on. Peacefully. I carry on peacefully.
I don't know about anybody else on the board, but I have had plenty of cause to inflict great violence on certain people that I have known throughout my life. Believe me, I have enough firepower to start a small war; and I have the military training background to fuel it. But, I don't. Someone told me a long time ago when he saw it in me, "Losing ones' temper is a sign of weakness.", I took that to heart. He was a wise man and not a fool. I respected him very much. People like him say exactly the right thing at the right time. They don't say much else in the interim. I've noticed.[smile]
The Second Amendment was meant to let the average persons defend themselves. Not get even or reap vengeance. As with any good thing, it can be abused.
The way I see it the recent events prove it is all the more reason to get your CCW license and accept that it has always been like this. And will always be like this. Because we are only human.
From what I've heard about the shootings in the news is that these people may have just "snapped". The media broadcasts the fact that these guys were frustrated, depressed, and maybe a little bit paranoid. Now, think about all the people you have met in your life that fit that description. Pretty long list?
A lot of people I know are going through the wringer; a friend of mine just got the big "D" bomb dropped on him by his wife; an immediate coworker of mine is going through the same thing, and he's also had a son pass away very recently. A buddy of mine has been laid off two times from two different companies. People are getting the screws put to them by this economy. Yet, somehow they carry on. Peacefully. I carry on peacefully.
I don't know about anybody else on the board, but I have had plenty of cause to inflict great violence on certain people that I have known throughout my life. Believe me, I have enough firepower to start a small war; and I have the military training background to fuel it. But, I don't. Someone told me a long time ago when he saw it in me, "Losing ones' temper is a sign of weakness.", I took that to heart. He was a wise man and not a fool. I respected him very much. People like him say exactly the right thing at the right time. They don't say much else in the interim. I've noticed.[smile]
The Second Amendment was meant to let the average persons defend themselves. Not get even or reap vengeance. As with any good thing, it can be abused.
The way I see it the recent events prove it is all the more reason to get your CCW license and accept that it has always been like this. And will always be like this. Because we are only human.
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schnarrgj
Member
No, we should not lay low. These crimes happen where there is no one there to stop them. If there was someone who was armed, the crime would have been stopped. These criminals look for the fame and for the unarmed and helpless. Our right to keep and bear arms in allowed everywhere may have stopped these evil (not sick) acts. The press is on these, in that they feel it will advance their agenda now that they have a sympathetic ear in our federal govenment. The attention given to these acts by the press, encourages more of these type of attention seeking acts and the press knows it. So what are a few more innocents if this will advance our agenda?
We are not the criminals as said many times. Deal with the criminals in a quick and harsh manner, and these types of things will diminish.
We are not the criminals as said many times. Deal with the criminals in a quick and harsh manner, and these types of things will diminish.
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wally
Member
Not only that we should use the recent events in gun free zones to regain our rights.
Laws that would make me die for lack of shooting back are morally wrong!
--wally.
SoCalShooter
Member
"Put aside for a moment the debate over guns. This isn't about policy. It's about asking the urgent question: What is happening in the American psyche that prevents people from defusing their own anguish and rage before they end the lives of others? Why are we killing each other?"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30046195/
This is coming from MSNBC it kinda makes you wonder if they are starting to get it, if just a little.
I do not think we should LAY LOW, we have done nothing wrong and we cannot control the actions of others, best thing to do is to send our sympathies to the families and let it be, I am sure very soon Paul Helmke will be on television, parading around in his best GUN CONTROL suit saying how if we all got rid of our guns the problem will be solved, so lets let him look like the unsympathetic buffoon that he is.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30046195/
This is coming from MSNBC it kinda makes you wonder if they are starting to get it, if just a little.
I do not think we should LAY LOW, we have done nothing wrong and we cannot control the actions of others, best thing to do is to send our sympathies to the families and let it be, I am sure very soon Paul Helmke will be on television, parading around in his best GUN CONTROL suit saying how if we all got rid of our guns the problem will be solved, so lets let him look like the unsympathetic buffoon that he is.
armedandsafe
Member
It is also an excellent time to contact our elected representatives and invite them to a shooting match of some sort. We did this in San Diego once, when Tanya Metaska was in town and it was very successful.
Pops
HOME DEPOT GEORGE
Member
Great replies so far, my biggest point when I asked if we should lie low is that we can't control what the media puts out. On the MSN special Kids and Guns they showed clips and interviews from a full auto shoot somewhere in the Northeast and portrayed gun owners like a bunch of idiots. Of course even if we don't give them any new footage I'm sure they have plenty of bias SH*T in their archives.
We should definitely not lay low. By laying low we give the appearance as if we've done something wrong when we haven't. If there is a massive pile-up on the freeway that kills 20 people does that mean I should think twice about driving for a few days?
We need to continue to show that 99% of law abiding gun owners do so in a safe, responsible manner. We need to continue to voice our opinions against specific attacks against our rights, and we can do so while remaining sympathetic. Like others have said, guns did not kill people in these instances, other people did. No guns, these people would have found another instrument for their terror
We need to continue to show that 99% of law abiding gun owners do so in a safe, responsible manner. We need to continue to voice our opinions against specific attacks against our rights, and we can do so while remaining sympathetic. Like others have said, guns did not kill people in these instances, other people did. No guns, these people would have found another instrument for their terror
HOME DEPOT GEORGE
Member
I'm hoping Glenn Beck or Lou Dobbs will do a real factual show on gun ownership with live clips and real stories in order to show people that the sh*t they've been seeing is just that sh*t.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
That is true, and the media tends to have a very anti-gun bias as a whole. The positive aspect is more people are getting news online now, or at least in addition to the TV. The easy accessibility allows both viewpoints to be voiced (or typed at least) like this very forum. I think this trend has caused the media to tone down their bias and try to fact check a little (they still have a LONG way to go), lest people go online and realize the newscasters are complete idiots and are lying. Internet is killing newspapers, and broadcast TV isn't very far behind. They don't have a monopoly on the news anymore.
The anti-gun lobby is going to have to ice skate uphill to convince people that although a psycho broke 150 laws in his rampage, 151 laws would have stopped him.
Lou McGopher
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Whenever someone decries 'assault weapons,' I usually don't bother clarifying their misunderstanding of the term. Instead, I ask them how they would defend themselves from someone with one of these, or even one of these.... and how they would even prevent people criminals from making, possessing, or using them.
Guns are here to stay, like it or not.
What we need to do is highlight stories of people who use firearms to defend themselves. We need to show how far more people use guns in acts of defense than in acts of aggression.
Guns are here to stay, like it or not.
What we need to do is highlight stories of people who use firearms to defend themselves. We need to show how far more people use guns in acts of defense than in acts of aggression.
Rather than lay low we should point out that the NC shooter was stopped by one shot. Unfortunately no armed citizen was there to fire it so they had to wait for the Police to arrive. In the meantime how many died?
I carry my gun the day of and after an incident without remorse or guilt. Just like I get in my truck the day after a drunk driver kills an innocent.
Note: I'm not criticizing the Police response or bravery of the Officer in the NC incident. Cops can't be everywhere.
I carry my gun the day of and after an incident without remorse or guilt. Just like I get in my truck the day after a drunk driver kills an innocent.
Note: I'm not criticizing the Police response or bravery of the Officer in the NC incident. Cops can't be everywhere.
Have you considered the profound lack of intellectual capacity and self-control in the lower quartile of the IQ distribution? That's a lot of people, and that we have as few problems as we do is a minor miracle (of the capacity of our penal system).
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