In Or Out Of The Pocket

[needmorecowbell]

Personally, I find carrying many compacts ranging from my Sig P938 to CZ P01 in an IWB holster very easy in any attire and have gotten away from pocket carry. At one time I had a P3AT and a 642, but I think carrying a bit more firepower is just as easy.

 

[Cee Zee]

I have a .45 with a 10+1 capacity that fits into my pockets easily. It's never failed to work perfectly except for one round that fired on the second strike (which the pistol allows for). So yeah a pocket pistol can be plenty. That said I find that gun to be so heavy when fully loaded that it makes my clothes hang funny to the point that anyone with a brain will know I have a gun in my pants. So I often carry a .380 LCP. It's not nearly as accurate at longer distances (pistol distances) but it isn't horrible at 10 yards. BTW that .45 is a Taurus and I love it. I actually have a Sig P220 that I carried for years before the Taurus but the size and the capacity are both wrong compared to the accurate and dependable Taurus. Of course there's not one thing wrong with that Sig as a weapon. It's very accurate at longer ranges but I can't bring myself to go back to 8+1 rounds when I can carry 16+1 in my car gun.

I've gotten to the point that I carry the LCP when I want to carry concealed and I keep a .40 S&W with a 16+1 capacity in the car. I find that most of the conflicts I see are in my car. People get nuts on the highways in my area. I've had them do all sorts of things trying to create bad situations. I do what I can to avoid those at all costs but I keep an SA XDm ready just in case.

I did carry that .45 for years as my CCW weapon though and I was glad I had it one night. My car had broke down in a strange town and I had to walk to a hotel with my teenage son. We then walked to a place to eat and we were followed by a gang of teens with obviously bad intentions. We ducked into a place to hide after going around a corner and I never saw them again but they were clearly coming after us. I was fully prepared to protect my son from that gang that night. I found a really good cover spot and they would have had a lot of problems trying to get to us because of that pistol. Without it and we were sitting ducks. Bad things do happen.

I've been in situations where I sure wish I had been armed. I sat through 2 armed robberies and during both problems almost brought trouble to me and my wife. The first one about 6 guys came into a McDonald's and robbed it. We were sitting two tables from the front door and the idiot next to the door jumped up and ran out the door to go call the cops. Gee didn't you leave me and my wife in the line of fire there hero? The cops talked about him like he was great. I wanted to punch his lights out. BTW there was a 7th robber outside the building. He was dang lucky he didn't get a lot of people killed. The second robbery was at a gas station on Christmas Eve. It was back when a guy still roamed the lot taking money from customers as they put gas in. He had a roll of bills that would choke a mule. I know because when I pulled in to the nearly full lot I saw him hand it to a guy standing right behind him. I noticed that they were unnaturally close at a time when being gay was still something done in closets. I saw the gun in the guys back and I saw the money change hands. Not one other person in the entire lot saw one blessed thing happen. So again I was the only witness making me the only target. The gas station guy didn't even see the robber. He couldn't turn around to see him. Actually I couldn't see his face either because he had on a ski mask and a hood and a coat and gloves. I couldn't tell if he was white or black but I bet he didn't know that. My wife didn't even see this and she was sitting right beside me. I was truly scared that night because I didn't want to be the only witness. For all I knew he had a partner waiting to put the lights out for anyone who saw what happened. Yeah that wasn't likely but things go through your mind when someone is pointing guns at people. At any rate I sure wanted a gun of my own that night.

People are sometimes dragged out of their cars and beaten in certain parts of the city I live near now just because of the color of their skin. No way I'd go to that city without a gun or two. I keep myself protected whenever I can. But for trips inside Wally World or wherever I might need to go I carry the LCP most often.

 

[benzy2]

I think most people will survive a violent encounter with a pocket sized pistol if they can draw it quickly. While I have comfort in the round/size of a small gun, I'd much rather it on a belt holster. I find pocket carry a less than ideal way to carry for most people. If it works for you, keep with it. I found my draw times were slower from a pant pocket than from IWB. I also found I couldn't draw with a firing grip and had to adjust the grip hand once out of the pocket. I didn't have to change my clothing to carry the slim 380 autos IWB either. So I went with the route that was faster and freed up pocket space for me.

 

[Cee Zee]

I found my draw times were slower from a pant pocket than from IWB

All the things you say here are true. Still I looked pretty funny with one side of my pants hanging down like I was some skateboard punk with his pants on sideways. I even got to the point that I wore suspenders to hold my pants up well. But I can only do that in the winter. I'd rather look like the skate board punk than Mr. Green Jeans or maybe Charlie Weaver (you gotta be old to remember those guys).

 

[skoro]

So the question is, is pocket carry enough for most situations?

Yep.

I'm in my 60s and pocket carry exclusively. My normal carry is a S&W 642, but if the pocket is deep enough, I'll take my XDs 45.

Now, that's for most situations.

It's possible I could come up short. But it's much more probable that I'll never draw my pocket piece. I'm not a likely target and I don't engage in risky business.

 

[huntsman]

I found my draw times were slower from a pant pocket than from IWB.

IMHO that can be offset by putting the hand in pocket sooner, it's a less conspicuous draw than accessing the belt holster.

 

[benzy2]

Cee Zee, I didn't have issues with a designed gun belt holding a pocket pistol size/weight gun pulling my pants. It is a stylish design and looks similar to a regular dress belt but its stiff like a good gun belt should be. The LCP and the glock 42 have been very pleasant to carry.

Huntsman, my fear with that option is that I won't be able to start with a hand in my pocket. While it may be fast/faster, if I can't start there I'm very limited in my speed. I'd also rather not walk everywhere with my hands in my pocket. Things like the knock out game worry me of what hands in pockets leaves you a bit vulnerable to. Plus I'm clumsy. I have serious concerns of tripping with hands stuck in pockets. Sounds silly but its a higher probability threat than needing a firearm.

 

[C0untZer0]

My pants don't sag with anything under 20 ounces.

Both size and weight are important.

That is why a lot of people feel that neither the MK9 nor the Borberg XR9-S are pocket pistols - some people feel that they are too heavy for the pocket.

 

[Onward Allusion]

So the question is, is pocket carry enough for most situations?

If it works for you, then it is enough. I had carried mouse guns for one reason or another for many years. Had to draw twice but never pull the trigger. So for me, it was enough gun. However, in my slightly weaken physical state, I now carry 357's.

I think what to carry is a very personal choice. There's no right or wrong answer. Just carry something all the time.

 

[gunnels]

I pocket carry a 9mm Beretta Nano. It is specifically made for pocket carry with nothing to catch on your pants. i.e. no hammer, no safety, and low profile sights. Sure, if were going to be in a gun fight would I rather have my 92fs with a 20 round magazine but that just is going to happen.

 

[Tomac]

How much insurance do you carry on your car? Liability only? The works w/towing & loaner car? Somewhere in between? CCW is your insurance in case of attack, how much are you comfortable with (or without)?

When you CCW, like w/car insurance, you're playing the odds. You might go your entire life w/o an accident or encounter, or, as mentioned earlier, find yourself in a pileup or encounter where no amount of insurance would be enough (ie: you're dead).

It's true that most encounters are ended w/o having to physiologically stop an aggressive and determined BG, the mere presence of a gun being sufficient for a psychological stop (in which case caliber & capacity are irrelevant and a realistic-looking starter pistol loaded w/blanks would work just as well).

It's also true that all handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used when facing an aggressive & determined BG. Barring a hit to the CNS the only way to stop an aggressive and determined BG is shutting down the brain via oxygen deprivation from blood loss (and even a solid hit to the heart can leave 10+ seconds of oxygen in the brain). That may require lots of accurate holes in a very short period of time to accelerate blood loss as much as possible.

Over the years I've carried everything from pocket .22's to a fullsize .45. My son carries a 642 and considers that sufficient for his needs. While I'm glad he's carrying, I consider *all* handguns insufficient and prefer to hedge the odds in my favor as much as I can. For me that means a compact 15rd 9mm w/at least 1 18rd reload. Yes, it's sometimes slightly inconvenient to carry but as someone once put it, CCW is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. And I find a 15rd 9mm much more comforting than a 5rd .38 (YMMV).
Btw, I've always found pocket carry too difficult to draw reliably & quickly under stress (again, YMMV).
JMHO...
Tomac

 

[HexHead]

--Or (as I do) as simply being covered, no concern if it prints, bulges, or even occasionally is exposed.

This. I occasionally pocket carry my G26, but lately I pretty much always have a revolver in my pocket.

 

[1John1:9]

kokapelli,

I'm probably re-stating what others have said, but................

Not knowing what position you'll be in (sitting in car or surprised with no chance to get your hand in your pocket), pocket MIGHT be less than desirable compared to IWB or OWB.

I have decided to carry a CZ P-01 (or similar sized compact like a Glock 19) in an IWB holster. There are limitless possibilities that this set up wouldn't prepare me for either, but it's what I've settled on.

It all comes down to preference really. I just happen to like this size of gun, and don't mind dressing around it. I'll admit I wear suspenders sometimes for comfort. Some days, I just don't feel like carrying that much, and I'll put my snubbie or P232 in a pocket . If I'm going somewhere that doesn't allow firearms , I'll go without fear but ticked off that the world has lost any common sense.

 

[kokapelli]

kokapelli,

I'm probably re-stating what others have said, but................

Not knowing what position you'll be in (sitting in car or surprised with no chance to get your hand in your pocket), pocket MIGHT be less than desirable compared to IWB or OWB.

I couldn't agree with you more and that is exactly why I have an SR9 tucked between my seat and the center console of my car, but still only pocket carry outside of my car.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't pocket carry because:

1. You have to give up a pocket -- usually the right side pocket where I carry keys, etc.

2. You have to choose a gun suitable for pocket carry, and I prefer something bigger and more powerful.

3. Pockets tend to be full of lint, etc.

4. Pockets tend to wear out when you carry heavy things in them.

5. Side carry, either IWB or OWB offers a faster, smoother presentation.

 

[X-Rap]

Some are rather rabid about the idea of having a gun in your car that may be left unattended.
I agree with your idea of having a spare at hand in your vehicle at the ready when you are underway and keeping one in your pocket at all times.
I'd ad that keeping a paddle holster available for your car gun is a good idea as I will carry the larger gun when the weather and circumstances make having a larger gun convenient.

 

[kokapelli]

I don't pocket carry because:

1. You have to give up a pocket -- usually the right side pocket where I carry keys, etc.

2. You have to choose a gun suitable for pocket carry, and I prefer something bigger and more powerful.

3. Pockets tend to be full of lint, etc.

4. Pockets tend to wear out when you carry heavy things in them.

5. Side carry, either IWB or OWB offers a faster, smoother presentation.

Oops!

 

[Gun Master]

Pocket Carry ?

Hmmm,...........Reminds me of, "Is J Frame Enough".

For some of us, a small to medium HG is all we can reasonably carry,........or nothing. I choose the former.

 

[Cee Zee]

My pants don't sag with anything under 20 ounces.

Mine don't either but that's 20 oz. loaded. That leaves me a .380 with 6 rounds or so. Those fit in my pocket. I don't worry about the things some do concerning lint, keys, etc. because I use a pocket holster. It keeps my gun where I want it too.

 

[bhk]

A PM40 in my pocket is quite enough. I also find this pistol amazingly easy to shoot accurately.

 

[Bobo]

"So the question is, is pocket carry enough for most situations?"

To this question I answered, "Yes". BUT...

Unfortunately, when you need a gun, a least for me, it would not be a "normal" situation.
In this abnormal situation I would want the biggest, baddest gun I could handle well.

I carried a pocket pistol (Kel-Tec P3AT) 24/7/365 for over 8 years, but always felt a bit under-armed. When they finally made the perfect gun and accessories that I required for my carry and life style I purchased them, and have now been carrying a double-stack Springfield XDm 3.8" .45 ACP 24/7/365 for almost two years.

Originally I carried the Kel-Tec with 6+1 rounds and two spare magazines, for a total of 19 rounds of .380.

Now I carry the Springfield with 9+1 rounds and one 13-round spare magazine, for a total of 23 rounds of .45.

The trick for me to carry either the .380 or .45 comfortably and well hidden, but easily accessible is the use of a SmartCarry holster. This has worked very well for me for a total of almost ten years.

I no longer feel under-armed, and my carry with the .45 is just as discrete and comfortable as it was with the .380.

BTW I am am not 82, but I am 76.

Bobo

 

[Hometeached1]

Hmmm,...........Reminds me of, "Is J Frame Enough".

For some of us, a small to medium HG is all we can reasonably carry,........or nothing. I choose the former.

It does, but at least there are a couple different arguments being made...kind of.

 

[Lafitte]

I pocket carry a PPK/S on occasion and feel fine with it. The only time that I thought I was going to have to shoot my way out of a place I had a 9mm under my belt and was wishing I had a .45.

Lafitte

 

[Dave T]

kokapelli,

You said:

So about ten years ago I decided that I was not going to dress around and carry a large hunk of iron, but was just going to drop a pistol in my pocket, accept occasionally carry a larger pistol when I knew I was going to be in a particularly dangerous area.

That sir is your choice but my question has always been: How do you know when and what kind of threat you will face? If you actually go to places that are so potentially dangerous you feel your "pocket carry" isn't adequate, my suggestion is don't go there. Best way to win a gun fight is don't have one.

As to pocket guns being enough, how well do you shoot them. I've been at this business (both as an enthusiast and a professional) for well over 40 years. I've never been able to shoot small guns nearly as well as larger (I'll call them full grip) weapons. The best compromise I can manage is a Glock 30. YMMV!

Dave

 

[kokapelli]

Well Dave I have gone over all the scenarios I would probably get into and decided that in most the 380 would be sufficient. I shoot 380 just fine at 30 feet and I know that probably 99% of all people don't want to bet shot with any caliber.

There are a lot of people that will say 380 isn't enough and you need at least 9mm and then there are a lot that will say 9mm isn't enough and you really need at least 40 cal and then there those that think you need at least 45 cal.

Well when two FBI agents cornered Baby Face Nelson seven 45 cal rounds to his torso from a Thompson sub machine gun and two blasts from a shotgun wasn't enough to stop Nelson either and Nelson killed both agents with his rifle, so we're does it end?