Including Physical Training as Part of SD

[gallo]

Another benefit of boxing is that unlike most dojos where the punches are highly controlled, in boxing the punches, even when sparring, are very real. Being used to getting hit without losing focus is essential to winning or simply bailing out of trouble.

Also, kicking above the waist line is a fairly risky move in a street fight. It is best to be proficient with your hands. As we age, the legs go first, but even into old age a boxer always has his hands.

Lastly, nothing works better to strengthen bones and joints as punching the bag. So long as you wrap correctly, you'll get a lot of benefits.

 

[PzGren]

Also, kicking above the waist line is a fairly risky move in a street fight.

And at my age it will lead to a nice strained muscle immediately. I just did not warm up properly last week and still feel the pain.

Apart from that, I think any move in a street fight will be risky since there are always factors out of our control.

Like the dude standing unseen behind you with the 2x4

 

[DammitBoy]

1% body fat is impossible and that gut you are sporting shows more than 1% body fat.

 

[manfromyard]

I have to say that Judo has been one of the most useful martial arts I have ever trained in. I know many people have their favorites, but I have tripped and fallen a LOT more times than I have gotten into fights. Judo ukemi (break falling) has saved me from many a broken bone and hospital bill. A martial art like boxing, muay thai, BJJ, or judo has the advantage of live sparring (if your body can handle that), and very good exercise.

Many fo the guys in TMA nowadays have huge stomachs. i don't care if you are a 15th degree whatever. You can't even run away from danger being that obese. Nike Fu is the first line of defense.

As for all these eye gouges, groin strike stuff, I thought Jigoro Kano did away with all that. To make it short, way back when Kano had a contest with all the "street self defense" martial arts schools of the day back in Japan. His judo guys cleaned them all out. You can talk about sport mindset all you like, but a sport practicioner has practiced his moves against resisting opponents, and more importantly is in good shape.

People think that an eye gouge will save them. If you can't hit someone in the face, how will you get to eye gouge them, other than you attacking first? Just as a person with a knife can carve up an officer with a holstered gun, an unarmed guy can close the distance and royally mess you up before you draw the gun.

It's no good talking about combat mindset when you can't climb a flight of stairs without breathing heavily. A basic fitness level and tactical awareness will serve you better than any exotic martial art. The awareness is up to you but you will most likely get a better workout boxing or doing grappling than doing forms at your local TMA school.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

I once fought a bully who happened to be borderline obese in school. All I had to do was take my hits and try to land good ones on his jaw near the chin and wait long enough for him to be winded. He had the weight and strength but I had the speed and reach plus motivation (And fear of being squished... irrational aint it?)

I think I thank my big brother who kneed me in back regularly on leave from SAC as entertainment and drill practice. His weight was twice mine at the time. So I learned not to get caught on ground under large strong people.

Sure enough he started to stagger and I closed in close quarters with hands around his neck to choke off air to finish him. 4 teachers peeled me off. Fortunately I didnt get into TOO much trouble that time. To his credit, he became a better person and was much more ... better around all of us at school towards the end of the year so it all worked out well.

I could have been sent to juvie jail and charged because I had my fingers at his windgate below the adams apple and his airpipe stopped.

Today? Im too fat to walk a puppy that is all legs and tail. The pull on the leash alone is tough for a few minutes.

 

[JShirley]

there are many arguments made against jiu jitsu, not one of them is related to jiu jitsu alone and are generally the short comings of all martial arts.

If you're referencing BJJ, that is untrue. BJJ, as I said previously, works great against single, unarmed opponents. I'd hate to assume either of an assailant, and unless I'm caught in the shower, I won't be unarmed, either. And it's just silly to give up any advantage in The Real World.

Knowing how to hit the ground is, I believe, a vital skill. Practicing to stay there for the duration is not good strategy.

John

 

[GojuBrian]

Long time karate guy here(san-dan in goju). If that doesn't mean anything to you it's ok,lol. 6'2" 190lbs . I'll post some 'krotty' pictures tomorrow.

Nice to see everyone taking care of themselves.

 

[GojuBrian]

Our punches are real.

 

[gripper]

Strikes me as a good balanced curricula...let me guess;you work at arms length,clinch range ;and ground work??Good training!

 

[GojuBrian]

Strikes me as a good balanced curricula...let me guess;you work at arms length,clinch range ;and ground work??Good training!

Absolutey, thanks!

 

[t_durden]

f you're referencing BJJ, that is untrue. BJJ, as I said previously, works great against single, unarmed opponents. I'd hate to assume either of an assailant, and unless I'm caught in the shower, I won't be unarmed, either. And it's just silly to give up any advantage in The Real World.

Knowing how to hit the ground is, I believe, a vital skill. Practicing to stay there for the duration is not good strategy.

John

respectfully, i still have not found a martial art that successfully deals with multiple attacks or armed attackers with the sole exception of track and field or a CCW. my own beloved art included.
I dont know any BJJ guy who wants to stay underneath, on the ground. my first goal is to improve position above all else. im no guard-monkey, most of us are not.
~Matt

 

[Col. Plink]

As I said, martial arts systems that teach an integrated fighting approach (hitting, kicking, grappling and felling) are probably your best bet to train for self-defense. You need to be able to deal with empty-handed as well as weapon attacks at various ranges (legs are longer than arms, arms are longer than elbows/knees/clenches). Soft-tissue strikes are not the be-all-end-all, but if you train in a system that teaches slipping past a strike to a soft-tissue target followed by devastating strike/ kick, felling move, and/OR joint manipulation/submission hold you can train for any situation.

I don't know of any system that better applies the four ways of fighting than Shaolin Kempo Karate, instituted by Grandmaster Fred Villari.

 

[SCMtns]

As usual, I'm late to this thread. I've been training boxing and jiu jitsu primarily for the last 9 years, with some muay thai thrown in and a lot of wrestling and judo the last couple years. Not the greatest stuff in the world, but pretty good-- I feel like I've cobbled together a meat-and-potatoes style that works OK on a lot of guys. There'll always be levels above me...

Anyway, I don't have much to add to what's already been said, but I would like to say that one underrated aspect of grappling is the considerable force with which you hit the ground from a good takedown. I had one encounter years ago in which I was rushed and all it took was one nice over-the-shoulder throw I'd been training in judo classes-- I could hear the bones hit the tile floor, and that was the end of the guy's aggression towards me.

It is correct to say that grappling is not suited to armed opponents or multiple opponents, but it's way better than going into the same situation without a deep-seated muscle memory of how to move people around, pull them into you to control them, then pick them up and slam them into the ground. The speed with which a guy winging a punch at you can be shot in on and picked up and slammed to the hard ground can be amazing. (I learned to box before I learned to roll, so I learned that the hard way in sparring.)

I train with a short, not very dangerous-looking guy who had three guys jump him coming out of a bar after a buddy of his had been making trouble with them. My friend's striking is nonexistent, but his grappling is formidable. He slammed the first guy on his head, wung a couple punches at the second guy to set up the same takedown and put him on his head, and by the time he turned to #3, the guy wanted nothing to do with it. Fight was over in a few seconds.

I know: to some extent, it was just my buddy's lucky day. Like I said earlier, it's not perfect. Things like Krav Maga and police defensive tactics are probably better for anybody worried about armed opponents. For multiple opponents, you're probably screwed no matter what if you don't have a gun.

 

[JMusic]

It used to boxing, tia kwon do, jujitsu, and judo used to be the defenses that were taught. I referred earlier to a 5 minute fight. Thats about how long it takes to choke someone out by wind when you don't have a good hold. Many of us cannot hold out that long anymore. I'd be lucky to go a minute. Plan your strategy on your endurance. I don't plan on being touched anymore adjust your safe zone and fight if it is infringed.



Jim

 

[Col. Plink]

Yes, you can train for multiple attackers. In fact, the degrees above first degree black belt in Shaolin Kempo (the Villari system) are predicated on just that. 2nd degrees should be able to handle two attackers, and so on. Again, I encourage everyone to find a school that teaches a truly integrated form of martial arts (i.e., one that utilizes hitting, kicking, grappling, and felling). Training in a rule-bound sport can lead to needless self-limitation in the case of an attack, and you don't want that! Also, the mish-mash schools that teach a little taekwondo, a little jiujitsu, a little boxing, a little muy thai, etc. are typically not competent to integrate these forms into a coherent fighting system; most don't even try.

I have heard of precious few modern integrated fighting systems. In my youth a buddy trained in Kajukenbo (literally, a melding of karate, judo, jujitsu, kenpo, and Shaolin temple boxing; a formidable mix if created by a true master such as Master Emperado was). Tukong Moosul is another, with the leader of its world federation, Master Yi, based right here in Austin; this art also includes training with modern weapons.

So get out there, look around, and see if you can find a true hybrid martial art that has been synthesized by a master and not just some hodge-podge of various martial arts being taught under the same roof because the owners are obsessed with 'MMA'. They may be master of one or more, but likely not a coherent integration of them into a solid fighting system.

 

[t_durden]

Yes, you can train for multiple attackers. In fact, the degrees above first degree black belt in Shaolin Kempo (the Villari system) are predicated on just that

i understand that many arts "train" for mult. attackers. i believe the truth of the matter is that multiple attacker drills is folly. you dont have eyes in the back of your head, no amount of chi can help with that.
i also believe that lineage does not add legitimacy. i never have understood its importance for anything other than cultural reasons.

 

[numaone]

To get back to the physical aspect. I just got back from the gym after a long/bad day at work and I feel great now. Nothing like taking some frustration out on some weights. I think the mental benefit is as important as the physical benefit. And that carries over to the CCW. I think you always need to be in a good state of mind when carrying to make the best snap-decisions.

Besides, I ain't never gona be a keg with legs, even if the tap can shoot bullets instead of beer.

 

[Aquila]

The Nipponese art of hotjutsu is for multiple attackers. It is called in gunfighting in modern day USA...

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Well, from the looks of the people I see at gun shows and gun stores, I must conclude that Cheetos, Pabst Blue Ribbon, and ESPN figure prominently into their work out routines.

Hahaha!

Of course! I can't carry yet, but I'm in great shape and go to the gym about twice a week. I'm not jacked, but I'm a pretty big guy at 6'-2", 185. Size and muscle regardless, if someone tries to jump me I'm getting my ass out of there on foot.

To get back to the physical aspect. I just got back from the gym after a long/bad day at work and I feel great now. Nothing like taking some frustration out on some weights.

Great feeling, isn't it?