Incomplete burn/inconsistent velocity with Silhouette in .45 Colt

[1KPerDay]

I tried this load because I had a couple pounds of silhouette and was out of Autocomp, which was one of the cleaner burning and more accurate powders I’d tested for .45 Colt cowboy loads. Initial results seemed favorable but yesterday the range was pretty cold, like 40 degrees, and the ammo had been sitting in there (private range).

I loaded up the Uberti and the first shot was so weak it felt like a squib. I unloaded, removed the cylinder and checked the bore. There were yellow partially burned grains of powder everywhere. Bore was clear. I checked the empty case and there was a lot of yellow debris. I shot a couple more and one seemed fine, another seemed very light and I could feel powder grains raining down on my arms. Recoil was very inconsistent. Some felt stout and some felt very light. Yellow partially burned powder grains were everywhere and prevented loading of new cartridges until I cleaned the gun.

I tried holding the muzzle vertical before aiming each shot and it seemed a little better but I still got another “squib” or what felt like one. The bore was clear again but something is obviously weird.

The load is 8.5 grains Silhouette under an MBC 250 grain LFP “cowboy.” CCI LPP.

is this powder known to be temp sensitive and/or position sensitive? Crimp is not super light.

 

[1KPerDay]

Some cases came out clean, some were very sooty.

 

[Charlie98]

Some cases came out clean, some were very sooty.

Almost sounds like you had some charge variation, or the powder was contaminated or deteriorated in some way. Obviously, that load is smack in the middle of Hodgdon's data... so it should work.

 

[bigpower491]

I've never notice temp or position sensitivity using Silhouette or what it used to be called, WAP. I mainly use it in 40SW, never thought to try it in 45 Colt. I did try it in 44 special and wasn't carried away with the results. Maybe got some condensation in the cases from them sitting in the cold, or if their was a wide fluctuation of temp during storage

 

[Walkalong]

Some cases came out clean, some were very sooty.

Powder back vs powder forward?

Any medium speed ball powder is going to struggle at standard.45 Colt pressures, especially if you don’t assure the powder is back against the primer when firing

 

[243winxb]

A magnum primer is needed to get all this junk burning. Imo.

Not all chemicals in the list are added to every powder, in the same family. See the SDS.

 

[Stefan A]

I was having this problem for a while - pretty much the same experience as you. Powder to the face and lots of unburned powder. Started a few threads about it. As of now, my solution was 6g of tight group with 250g xtp bullets. I need to rework the load with my coated bullets - haven't had a chance yet.

 

[Blue68f100]

Have you tried a Mag primer. Sometimes the mag primer with it's extra brilliance will ignite the powder more consistently. Another though is maybe you do have neck tension to get a complete burn.

 

[AJC1]

Your one tenth over my 357 mag load. Your case fill will be low and low pressure. I've not had great experence with low percent fills in any case let alone 45c or 45-70. I think your best option is a higher volume powder.

 

[EricBu]

I've never been happy with standard Colt pressures with Silhouette. It get's better at the higher charge and with more crimp, especially if your cases are well used. My ultimate solution was to ditch it in favor of TiteGroup. Standard pressure Colt loads in that big ol' case benefit from fast powders that are not position sensitive. AA2/Cleanshot work well also, but TG is my go to for the caliber.

 

[AJC1]

I keep hearing how fluffy that cbi powder is... anyone try that in 45c.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I tried this load because I had a couple pounds of silhouette and was out of Autocomp, which was one of the cleaner burning and more accurate powders I’d tested for .45 Colt cowboy loads. Initial results seemed favorable but yesterday the range was pretty cold, like 40 degrees, and the ammo had been sitting in there (private range).

I loaded up the Uberti and the first shot was so weak it felt like a squib. I unloaded, removed the cylinder and checked the bore. There were yellow partially burned grains of powder everywhere. Bore was clear. I checked the empty case and there was a lot of yellow debris. I shot a couple more and one seemed fine, another seemed very light and I could feel powder grains raining down on my arms. Recoil was very inconsistent. Some felt stout and some felt very light. Yellow partially burned powder grains were everywhere and prevented loading of new cartridges until I cleaned the gun.

I tried holding the muzzle vertical before aiming each shot and it seemed a little better but I still got another “squib” or what felt like one. The bore was clear again but something is obviously weird.

The load is 8.5 grains Silhouette under an MBC 250 grain LFP “cowboy.” CCI LPP.

is this powder known to be temp sensitive and/or position sensitive? Crimp is not super light.

From John Kronfeld in the 1995 Handloader, “Winchester introduced Winchester Action Pistol powder (WAP) in 1994. It's intended for use in semi-automatics like the 9mm Luger, .38 Super, .40 S&W, 10mm Automatic and 45 ACP, but it should be of great interest to combat shooters who load for the .38 Super.”
The article goes on to point out Winchester only recommended high pressure loading for the powder.
Silhouette is WAP. Give it a read.

 

[AJC1]

From John Kronfeld in the 1995 Handloader, “Winchester introduced Winchester Action Pistol powder (WAP) in 1994. It's intended for use in semi-automatics like the 9mm Luger, .38 Super, .40 S&W, 10mm Automatic and 45 ACP, but it should be of great interest to combat shooters who load for the .38 Super.”
The article goes on to point out Winchester only recommended high pressure loading for the powder.
Silhouette is WAP. Give it a read.

Propellant profiles strikes again.

 

[Walkalong]

From John Kronfeld in the 1995 Handloader, “Winchester introduced Winchester Action Pistol powder (WAP) in 1994. It's intended for use in semi-automatics like the 9mm Luger, .38 Super, .40 S&W, 10mm Automatic and 45 ACP, but it should be of great interest to combat shooters who load for the .38 Super.”
The article goes on to point out Winchester only recommended high pressure loading for the powder.
Silhouette is WAP. Give it a read.

Yep. It wants some pressure to burn well, at least near 9MM max pressures from my experience.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Yep. It wants some pressure to burn well, at least near 9MM max pressures from my experience.
View attachment 1137224

I remember when WAP came out. It was The New Hotness for all the .40S&W shooters - and there was LOTS of them! I knew a lot more handloaders back then at the club in Ft.White. I never took to it. Too fussy. I was told it would improve my 9mm loads. I was mostly loading 9mm with HS6 and Unique and both do everything I want for 9mm. I was told I would get 900fps in a .45 “Hardball” - but 850fps with a 200gr LSWC is plenty and I was getting that with plain old Red Dot. So I tried it for 2# worth but never really cottoned to WAP and have yet to try Silhouette.

 

[AJC1]

I remember when WAP came out. It was The New Hotness for all the .40S&W shooters - and there was LOTS of them! I knew a lot more handloaders back then at the club in Ft.White. I never took to it. Too fussy. I was told it would improve my 9mm loads. I was mostly loading 9mm with HS6 and Unique and both do everything I want for 9mm. I was told I would get 900fps in a .45 “Hardball” - but 850fps with a 200gr LSWC is plenty and I was getting that with plain old Red Dot. So I tried it for 2# worth but never really cottoned to WAP and have yet to try Silhouette.

I'm not dying for others to buy it up, but on the other side if they don't buy any I'm screwed. Hopefully the 9mm major guts shoot enough to keep it on the shelf.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I'm not dying for others to buy it up, but on the other side if they don't buy any I'm screwed. Hopefully the 9mm major guts shoot enough to keep it on the shelf.

I think the death of .40SW might hurt Silhouette more than anything else. The fellas that said it was all that and a bag of chips in .40 were right. But .40 is on the long road to oblivion.

 

[1KPerDay]

Have you tried a Mag primer. Sometimes the mag primer with its extra brilliance will ignite the powder more consistently. Another thought is maybe you do have neck tension to get a complete burn.

I havent. I’ve tried S&B and CCI. I have WLP but I don’t care about this load enough to waste any more primers on it if it’s not going to burn. I have other powders. I was just using silhouette because I had just opened a pound and it was working fine in 9mm and .45 ACP and it had data for .45 Colt. If they know it sucks for that application they should just say so LOL

 

[1KPerDay]

I've never been happy with standard Colt pressures with Silhouette. It get's better at the higher charge and with more crimp, especially if your cases are well used. My ultimate solution was to ditch it in favor of TiteGroup. Standard pressure Colt loads in that big ol' case benefit from fast powders that are not position sensitive. AA2/Cleanshot work well also, but TG is my go to for the caliber.

Thanks. I have a few pounds of titegroup and I haven’t really fancied it in anything else.

 

[243winxb]

We tested loads at both maximum normal pressures and at the starting loads (some labs calculate start loads — we shot them). Standard primers caused no ignition issues at the max load but posted higher extreme variations in pressure and velocity in the lower pressure regimes of the start loads. In extreme cases, the start loads produced short delayed firings — probably in the range of 20 to 40 milliseconds but detectible to an experienced ballistician. Switching that propellant to a Magnum primer smoothed out the performance across the useful range of charge weights and completely eliminated the delays.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/100079

 

[Charlie98]

I have WLP but I don’t care about this load enough to waste any more primers on it if it’s not going to burn.

If they are the WLP primers I'm thinking of, they are both Magnum and standard primers all in one. What they really are is a bridge between the two... at least that's what I picked up based on my thumbnail test with it in the .41MAG a few years ago... but it might give enough kick. I do agree, however... it's probably not the best powder for that application.

TiteGroup works really well in 9mm... that's where I'm using it, until it's gone. I have tested it in .45 Colt and .44SPC where it did pretty good, the caveat to that is how hot it burns. 50 rounds of that and the pistol was so hot I could hardly hold it to punch the empties out.