inexpensive flinter

[ontarget]

I am thinking about trying out a flintlock. I have been looking at the Traditions with a synthetic stock. Does anyone have any knowledge of the performance of these rifles? Yes I know they are not a custom rifle from the House Bros. so please don't tell me to "spend the extra money on this and that" I just need to know if these guns are a good place to start out with flinters.
Thanks in advance.

 

[mad murdock]

Don't know about the traditions flintlocks. I bought a Cabelas kit rifle many years back to get into flintlocks. It is made by investarms in Italy and has beena dependable piece. No issues ever with the lock.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Traditions guns like CVA, are made is Spain by Jukar Company. The quality is good but not the quality of Thompson Center or Lyman. You can always tell about the quality of a gun by how much dollar value is retained when it comes time to sell. Folks just aren't interested much in used Spanish guns.

I sincerely believe you will be disappointed by the lock. The quality is low-grade. In this business like others, "you get what you pay for (new), AND you pay for what you get".

I know you said it before, but you will be miles ahead if you spend your hard-earned money on a new (or used) Lyman flintlock Great Plains rifle in .50 or .54 caliber. They sell new for about $600, I sell used ones that are twenty years old for $400 to $450.00. That's a measure of quality and performance.

I'll buy any Lyman Great Plains rifle in like-new condition in a heartbeat, but I'll pass on ANY Traditions/CVA rifle, except the CVA Mtn Rifle made in USA.

'Nuff said."

 

[RonC]

I bought a used Thompson Center Hawkin flintlock for $300 and a CVA kit built up to customized standards for $250.
Go to the various Muzzleloaders forums and you can find very acceptable flintlocks for good prices. You might have to check the sites now and again for a few weeks, but they turn up.
I also found a few traditional, sidelock muzzleloaders at pawnshops for good prices (after negotiation). Be sure to look down the bore as some were as dirty as can be. With black powder, dirty can equal corroded and rusted. So be careful.

You can buy the little lights that go in nighttime fishing bobbers and drop them down the bore. You then can see the condition of the bore.
Ron

 

[RonC]

Most of the inexpensive muzzleloaders are now made in Italy by firms like Investarms. Jukar was a Spanish manufacturer that made arms for importers back in the 70s and maybe into the early 80s. They eventually were under contract to build guns for CVA. Some of the guns aren't bad, some are junk. The early "Kentucky" rifles has 2 piece stocks with a metal spacer between the rear portion and the forestock portion. My understanding is that they haven't been made for some time.
Ron

 

[noelf2]

You can always tell about the quality of a gun by how much dollar value is retained when it comes time to sell. Folks just aren't interested much in used Spanish guns.

Not always the case. The value of the Traditions Deerhunter Flintlock in .50 cal with polymer stock (not the PA pellet model, just the regular one) has gone up about 100% in the last few years. Cabela's usually has them, and last time I looked they were on backorder. They work surprisingly well, and fit and finish is remarkably good! You used to be able to pick up a used traditions flinter like the OP describes for $100 but they're at least $200 now if in VG condition.

I sincerely believe you will be disappointed by the lock. The quality is low-grade. In this business like others, "you get what you pay for (new), AND you pay for what you get".

Again wrong, at least in my case. I have a custom built flintlock fowler with a Chambers lock that sparks like a beauty. Made by my friend Ed Wenger. I also have a Traditions flintlock deerhunter .50 cal and it sparks perfectly as well. Never had a problem with it, and it is about 7 years old.

I'll buy any Lyman Great Plains rifle in like-new condition in a heartbeat, but I'll pass on ANY Traditions/CVA rifle, except the CVA Mtn Rifle made in USA.

I find my Traditions Deerhunter to be accurate and dependable. Funny... I sold my USA made CVA Mtn Rifle a few years ago. I kept the Traditions Deerhunter because it shoots well and I like the shorter carbine style.

I wouldn't buy one new at the price the big boys want, but if you can find a used one in VG condition you could pick it up for half the cost of a used Lyman, and I think you would have a lot of fun with it. It isn't a Lyman Great Plains Rifle, but for inexpensive introduction into flintlocks you can't do much better. And contrary to popular belief, they resell well if taken care of. You won't lose money on it. Use knapped English flints for best spark.

 

[g.willikers]

"you get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get".
Not always.
Sometimes what you pay for is the number of middle men involved from manufacturer to retail store.

 

[frontiergander]

I sell rebuilt CVA's like hot cakes, folks ARE very interested in CVA's. The flintlocks can have soft frizzens BUT, that is very easy to take care of.

Any time I rebuild a CVA, it comes out with tuned triggers, polished lock plate/internals and a polished bore.

I've had a couple lyman great plains rifles that wouldnt spark no matter what you did to the frizzen. When they did go off, the touch hole location was poor and caused a fuse fire effect.

You cant get perfect unless you do it yourself.

Traditions is built by Ardessa and they have improved their quality very greatly over the past few years.

I love my Traditions Kentucky Flinter!

 

[Noz]

Traditions guns like CVA, are made is Spain by Jukar Company. The quality is good but not the quality of Thompson Center or Lyman. You can always tell about the quality of a gun by how much dollar value is retained when it comes time to sell. Folks just aren't interested much in used Spanish guns.

I sincerely believe you will be disappointed by the lock. The quality is low-grade. In this business like others, "you get what you pay for (new), AND you pay for what you get".

I know you said it before, but you will be miles ahead if you spend your hard-earned money on a new (or used) Lyman flintlock Great Plains rifle in .50 or .54 caliber. They sell new for about $600, I sell used ones that are twenty years old for $400 to $450.00. That's a measure of quality and performance.

I'll buy any Lyman Great Plains rifle in like-new condition in a heartbeat, but I'll pass on ANY Traditions/CVA rifle, except the CVA Mtn Rifle made in USA.

'Nuff said."

The lock on this price of gun is the reason I no longer have a flintlock. It was terrible. the geometry was off so the hammer and frizzen did not work together. The frizzen was too soft and the springs weakened quickly. Look for a used gun of quality.
The person that I unloaded the flintlock on spent more than the cost of the complete rifle to get a reliable lock.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Contrary to what some have said. Traditions guns are not made by Jukar, never were. They are made by Ardesa a different and slightly better Spanish company. Nearly all CVA guns made after 1984 were either Ardessa or Italian made. The very early CVA guns indeed came from Jukar.

I do agree that the quality control is not what it should be. Frankly, I'd take a CVA mountain rifle in flint over a TC flintlock any day of the week. Traditions flintlocks usually need some tweaking to improve performance. However, unlike TC and CVA, new factory parts are available. I have and shoot a few Spanish made flintlocks. Some are better than others, and one, after polishing the lock works almost like an expensive custom lock.

One traditions flintlock may operate great and the next hardly at all. Reworking the lock, can be relatively easy but time consuming. Watch the on-line auctions fpr a CVA Frontier rifle with double set triggers. Normally about $150 for the flint. Worth the price in good shape.

 

[Patocazador]

Rather than spend $400-500 on an "iffy" mass produced foreign gun, I would save up my money and buy a used custom long rifle that fit your dimensions (LOP, etc.) and has a Siler or L&R lock.
That's what I did and I'm glad I did. You can get them for $700-1000 usually.

 

[ontarget]

Thanks for the advice. If I do decide to go with the Traditions does anyone know where I could get a wood stock? I am only seeing them with synthetic. It almost seems sacreligious to put a plastic stock on a flintlock rifle.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I recommend either a used TC Hawken, A Pedersoli Frontier (Cabela's Blue Ridge Hunter) or a Lyman GPR as a starter flintlock.

LD

 

[noelf2]

You can sometimes find the wood stocks on Ebay, but they aren't worth it IMHO. The Traditions aren't replicas of any original flintlock anyway, wood stock or not. There are benefits to the polymer stock in that it doesn't swell with moisture/humidity.

 

[eastbank]

the heart of a flint lock is the frizzen, if you have the best of all the parts in a rifle,but a poor frizzen you have a heavy stick. i have sold my TC flint locks(two) as they just didn,t have good frizzens. i bought a pedersoli blue ridge flint lock that i use a 7/8th black english flint in, and in the last flint lock season on the last day in 16 degree temp i fired eight shots with eight pulls of the trigger, several other rifle used that day did not get eight shots in a row at the end of the hunt. you can have a piss poor caplock and as long as it has a strong main spring it will at least go off, not so with a flintlock as a good frizzen is a must. a flintlock will sure teach you follow thru. eastbank.

 

[ontarget]

I have been looking at the Pedersoli's and they are great but not in the budget at this point. Hopefully someday.