Infamy of .38 Spl

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Buckeye63 said:
Im not sure if this has been mentioned.. but from what I have read and heard the old
200gr LRN would yaw and tumble , causing much damage
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They have tried 200gr bullet in both 38 Special and 38 S&W and found it lacking.

The British adopted the 38/200 in the Webley Mk VI or Enfield No. 2 for WWII as a replacement to the old 455 Webley and found it lacking in actual practice.

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Oldschool shooter said:
I'm not saying there may be better choices, but I'm plenty comfortable with 158 gr SWC in my carry snubby. For what it's worth, I once read that more people have been killed with a 32 cal than any other. Not sure if this is true, but from the late 1800s, everyone was making a 32.
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I think it's .22lr. not .32.
But I could be wrong.
 
The notion that 38 special is marginal probably stems from it abandonment by most law enforcement agencies.
 
Joe Friday and Bill Gannon shot .38 spl snubs and the bad guys always went down.
.38 spl is an old, much maligned cartridge.
When you grow old, you'll see what I mean:rofl:
 
Buckeye63 said:
Im not sure if this has been mentioned.. but from what I have read and heard the old
200gr LRN would yaw and tumble , causing much damage
Click to expand...

It wouldn't surprise me. That's a long bullet for the typical twist in a .38 Special bore. The problem with an unstable bullet, though, is that it behaves unpredictably. It can sometimes cause a lot of damage, but it sometimes can lay down and die after penetrating only a few inches, or it can take a sharp turn and exit before doing any real work.
 
Oldschool shooter said:
For what it's worth, I once read that more people have been killed with a 32 cal than any other. Not sure if this is true, but from the late 1800s, everyone was making a 32.
Click to expand...
Lethality is not a relevant performance parameter for self defense.
 
Nothing wrong with the cartridge or revolver platform. The new platforms for the 9MM have much to recommend. Humans have a level of creativity that creates better stuff. Nothing wrong with a cross slot screw driver and a manual hand drill if you want to use them. There are now easier and arguably better tools.
 
earplug said:
Nothing wrong with the cartridge or revolver platform. The new platforms for the 9MM have much to recommend. Humans have a level of creativity that creates better stuff. Nothing wrong with a cross slot screw driver and a manual hand drill if you want to use them. There are now easier and arguably better tools.
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Like a torx bit
 
I use the 200 grn RN in my 38 special snubbies. It is not a good round for penetrating barriers. Cast out of soft lead, it is too heavy and slow for such work. Col Haskins used a 38/200 Webley to take out a German Soldier and he reports that it did so pronto.

I have found the round to be accurate in all of my revolvers. I load to the upper limit in 38 special. I have also sent it down range at over 1000 fps in my Blackhawk over a max charge of Bluedot. It is a thumper and I would not like to be on the receiving end of this round in either 38 or .357. I also use full charge wadcutters for self defense. The 38 special loads in both rounds have fairly mild recoil in these light guns which make effective follow up shots possible if necessary.
 
I carry ether a 9mm, 38 or 357 snub daily and with modern ammo I’m comfortable with ether.
 
The 38 special is a wonderful cartridge. My dad carried a smith model 10 4 inch on duty in the 70s and 80s and a model 36 snub off duty. His duty ammo was 158 gr LRN in the early 70s then transitioned to 158 gr SWC and finally 158 gr SWCHP prior to retirement. He still prefers the 158 gr SWCHP to any other round available today. I have heard stories of the 158 LRN fail to stop but also heard as many drop felons where the stood. I was always told that shot placement matters more than bullet type.

Naturally, I grew up shooting revolvers in 38 special and learned to shoot both barrel lengths effectively. While no longer on duty as primary sidearms by police officers, I'd venture to guess many use a snub 38 as a back up or off duty round. My EDC is normally a J-frame model 638 in 38 special or a 3 inch model 60 pro series in 357. My carry ammo in the 638 is either 158 gr SWCHP by buffalo bore or Federal 125 gr nyclad HP. Both are standard pressure though the buffalo bore is more like plus P. The 125 gr nyclad is no longer in production but I was able to secure 4 50 round boxes several years ago on gunbroker. This round us relatively mild and has an excellent reputation for expansion with mediocre penetration. My tests into ballistic gel showed an avg of .61 cal expansion with 10.5 inches of penetration through heavy clothing. In the model 60, I prefer to carry Remingtons full power 125 gr scalloped JHP. It has taken several years to become accurate with this load shooting one handed and off hand. My speed loader reload for both guns is Hornady's critical defense 110 gr +p. This load has decent ballistics out of short barrels and is much quicker to insert into the cylinder than typical hollowpoints.

My bedside gun is either a Model 10 4 inch heavy barrel or a 6 inch 686+. Both are loaded with buffalo bore 158 gr SWCHP +P.

I find the 38 special to work well for my needs. It matter not what anyone else thinks about the caliber and its effectiveness or lack thereof.
 
PA Revolver Guy said:
The 38 special is a wonderful cartridge. My dad carried a smith model 10 4 inch on duty in the 70s and 80s and a model 36 snub off duty. His duty ammo was 158 gr LRN in the early 70s then transitioned to 158 gr SWC and finally 158 gr SWCHP prior to retirement. He still prefers the 158 gr SWCHP to any other round available today. I have heard stories of the 158 LRN fail to stop but also heard as many drop felons where the stood. I was always told that shot placement matters more than bullet type.

Naturally, I grew up shooting revolvers in 38 special and learned to shoot both barrel lengths effectively. While no longer on duty as primary sidearms by police officers, I'd venture to guess many use a snub 38 as a back up or off duty round. My EDC is normally a J-frame model 638 in 38 special or a 3 inch model 60 pro series in 357. My carry ammo in the 638 is either 158 gr SWCHP by buffalo bore or Federal 125 gr nyclad HP. Both are standard pressure though the buffalo bore is more like plus P. The 125 gr nyclad is no longer in production but I was able to secure 4 50 round boxes several years ago on gunbroker. This round us relatively mild and has an excellent reputation for expansion with mediocre penetration. My tests into ballistic gel showed an avg of .61 cal expansion with 10.5 inches of penetration through heavy clothing. In the model 60, I prefer to carry Remingtons full power 125 gr scalloped JHP. It has taken several years to become accurate with this load shooting one handed and off hand. My speed loader reload for both guns is Hornady's critical defense 110 gr +p. This load has decent ballistics out of short barrels and is much quicker to insert into the cylinder than typical hollowpoints.

My bedside gun is either a Model 10 4 inch heavy barrel or a 6 inch 686+. Both are loaded with buffalo bore 158 gr SWCHP +P.

I find the 38 special to work well for my needs. It matter not what anyone else thinks about the caliber and its effectiveness or lack thereof.
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A .38 Spl is sufficient handgun for 95 percent of the lower '48.
 
Kleanbore said:
Lethality is not a relevant performance parameter for self defense.
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Good point. If bad hombre can stay with it long enough to put you down, even after being shot, it doesn't matter if he bled out an hour later or dies from complications two days later. He needs to cease and desist from hostile activity at the time of being shot, and if he does so, death is not required.
 
In about 1987 I was shot with a .38 special round in the forearm. I was at a shooting range at a gun shop in Texas. I had the weekday off and was shooting my 45 Colt Gold Cup by myself. I was enjoying having the range to myself, when a Woman came in, and we went down range to hang new targets. We returned to the firing line and I was loading some magazines when she pulled a derringer from her purse. It almost immediately went off, and I think it ricocheted of a steel beam; then I noticed a burning sensation in my arm. I was wearing a short sleeve t-shirt and I did notice a fair amount of blood. The guys in the gun shop must have seen it happen because they were out there quickly with a 1st aid kit. I could see the end of the bullet and got the forceps from the kit and removed a lead round nose bullet that was slightly deformed on one side, which I think was from the ricochet on the beam. At that point the gun shop owner had to restrain me, because I was going for my 45 to shoot the woman. Luckily calmness prevailed and I was bandaged and left; never to return. Hopefully that woman was banned from return. She had lousy shot placement.
 
A brother officer was shopping in a hardware store in lower Manhattan when two "skells" stepped in and announced a holdup. Skells were what LE in NYC used to call perps back then. They were herding everyone towards the back of the store when Kenny ducked behind a pillar and started shooting. He was carrying our state agency mandated load at the time, .38Spl 158g SWC, in his 2" Colt Det. Spl.

One shot hit a coiled garden hose, which stopped that bullet dead, the second shot hit the heavy glass front door on an angle as the would be robbers made a hasty retreat, and glanced off without shattering it. I should mention Kenny barely qualified each year. lol

But, he did stop the robbery, and who knows what the robbers had in mind after that? This was early '70's, NYC at it's worst, and lots of robberies ended up with everyone in the store dead.

Take that bullet performance as you may, but I personally was glad to go from a 5 shot 3" S&W Chief to an 11 shot 9mm Glock 26. Our loads for that were 147g JHP+P. But that didn't happen until the '90's.
 
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I have to say that there are better choices than the 38 special. A 12 gauge pump with slugs and buck shot has a little more stopping power!

I do know that the 38 in my pocket has more knockdown than a 44 mag left at home. And that is the number one reason that the 38 snub nose is popular they are small, easy to conceal, and reliable.
 
Sistema1927 said:
Yeah, the .38 Special is so bad that most police departments were stuck with it for more than eight decades.
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Some things get used for a long time because they are the best available for their purpose, not because they are truly excellent at that purpose. Look at telephones: Wired phones were a godsend, and were used for what, a century plus? But cellular phones serve the same need much better.

38 Special RNL may have been the best thing available for the average cop, but that doesn't mean it was good enough. And when cops began to shoot people more, because of rising crime in the 1960's, that became so apparent that change was demanded.
 
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