Info from a Gun Shop

[hatterasurf]

I was at a local gun store and asking questions about the Kahr pm9. I told him that I wanted a compact gun for ccw, that was DAO. He said that "since it does not have hammer, then its not DAO. Only guns with external hammer can be DAO." I asked then what kind of trigger it has. He said the same as the Glock. I told him to visit the Kahr website and see what they list it as. As I continued to look and talk to the gun shop owner, I told him that i really want a DAO PT145. He start up again about that a gun like that could not be DAO. At which point I just turned around and left.

I just wonder how much wrong or miss leading information you guys have gotten from a gun shop?

 

[Ringer]

Actually I kind of agree with him. Calling striker fired pistols DAO to me has never made that much sense. To me for a gun to truly be double action it should be able to both cock the hammer/striker and release it. With the Kahr the striker must be partially "cocked" by pulling back the slide. The trigger just finishes it so in my mind it's not really a double action gun. So IMO he is right that the firing mechanism is more like a glock than a double action pistol like say...an HK USP.

With that said it's not in agreement with the way the manufacturers have gone in naming these types of guns as DAO. To me they are neither single or double action but somewhere in between if that makes any sense.

By the way, I love my PM-9 and carry it frequently.

 

[Ditchtiger]

My Kel Tec P11 does not have an external hammer but is DAO

 

[hagar]

Technically, they are classified as doa. Might only be to satisfy police department politics, but that is what it is. I personally hate doa pistols, those with a hammer, but think striker fired pistols is the cats meow.

 

[wally]

We can quibble all night, but to me the Kahr is not DAO because it lacks a second strike capability. A "true" double action supplies all forces and movements needed to fire a primer by pulling the trigger without requiring "pre-cock" or "reset" caused by slide motion or recoil.

Double action only comes in when a double action trigger setup has been modified to prevent Single Action operation by preventing any "pre-cock" of the hammer or striker.

Put a snap cap in a Kahr, pull the trigger -- click! Now pull it again, note nothing happens, hence its not a Double Action. You must partially retract the slide to "reset" the trigger.

Do the same for a Taurus Millenium Pro. You'll get two clicks, hence its double action.

--wally.

 

[Fun2Shoot]

I just wonder how much wrong or miss leading information you guys have gotten from a gun shop?

Years ago it was worse, but now most gun shops in my area have a real good counter staff or owners. That's not to say that I agree with every detail that they say, but in general I have found them to be pretty good with product knowledge and sometimes very good with advice.

My beef is more with the attitudes of a few of the gun shop owners over the years. It's no wonder that so many small businesses go belly up. The owners just don't have a clue that the customer should be treated as if he might actually know a thing or two and given respect rather than a grouchy response to a question about price or quality.

I vote with my feet. My money goes to the places that are there to serve me and not make me feel like I am some sort of bother.

 

[bandoo]

I vote with my feet. My money goes to the places that are there to serve me and not make me feel like I am some sort of bother.

I went to a local Birmingham shop last week, Southeastern Guns, to be exact, and asked to see a 9mm XD subcompact. The kind lady behind the counter told me she might have one in stock but didn't have time to look at the moment.
Went back two days later and she was again too busy to check and see if they had one in stock. Rather than waste the fuel I called the next day and they were just too swamped to look in the back and check for one.
With that kind of volume they probably wont even notice I bought the gun from their competition, who took a few minutes to check.

 

[MPanova]

Having a hammer or not does not make any difference in wheather a pistol is DAO or not. Sounds to me like he just wanted to belittle you and make it seem like he knows more then you do and your an idiot. Dont go back to that shop. I do not suport any shops who carry all types of makes and models but only want to sell you the higher end stuff and talk down about some of the other stuff that they themselves carry :banghead:

 

[ArchAngelCD]

hatterasurf,
The Taurus PT145 is a DA/SA pistol, the PT745 is DAO.
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=39&category=Pistol
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=283&category=Pistol

Both are great but I would rather have the PT145 because for the same size pistol you get 10+1 rounds of .45 where as the PT745 gives you only 6+1 rounds. Both are the same price too.

 

[ugaarguy]

SA, DA, Modified DA.

Single Action - The trigger performs the single action of releasing the hammer or striker to fire the round.

DA - The trigger performs the double actions of cocking the hammer or striker, and releasing it. DA can be modified to use slide movement to partially cock the hammer or striker, or partially pre-tension the mainspring. The fact remains that, though modified, the trigger pull must still perform the double actions of cocking and releasing the hammer or striker. It can't be single action because the trigger pull performs more than one action. This is not limited to striker fired pistols either. Kel-Tec P3AT/P32/PF-9 are concealed hammer with modified DA, S&W uses a modified DA on some 3rd gen pistols; Para's LDA, HK's LEM, and SIG's DAK are all modified DA as well.

Of course the US Army has added the category SFA (Striker Fired Action) to their RFPs (Requests For Proposals) for the on again-off again Joint Combat Pistol program.

 

[MPanova]

I dont see why he would say that it had to have hammer to be DAO. Sometimes having a hammer means it can be double action or used in single action. My Ruger P90 has a hammer and if its empty I can pull the trigger over and over and it is double action, however if I choose to I can manually cock the hammer back and now it becomes a single action trigger pull