interested in BP

Status
Not open for further replies.
Someone else that knows how to load a ball. Thank You Robert. I totally agree with you.

I'm not the best at explaining things with text but I will try.

I shot bench rest with my dad from 1960 to 1964 using a model 70 220 swift target rifle. In 1964 I bought my own model 70 in a 225. That same year an old gentleman introduced me to black powder bench rest using his warner under hammer 50 cal. paper patched rifle and a no name muzzle loader using round ball and patch. He taught me how to load for accuracy.

It started out by screening all the powder to remove all fines. Then the charge was weighed and poured down the clean barrel. Next a felt wiper on the end of a rod was used to push down any powder that might have stuck to barrel walls. Then he told me to tap the gun twice lightly on the ground to settle the powder.
Then a lubed paper patched bullet that just fits the bore with a snug slip fit (not the groove dia.) is started in the false muzzle. a special starter is set onto the false muzzle to start the bullet square. Not to force the bullet in but just to align it straight with the bore and through the false muzzle. It slides easily through.

Then the ramrod is set on the bullet and just it's weight will slowly slide the bullet down till it sits very lightly on the powder.

The round balls in the other gun were loaded much the same way but without a false muzzle. The lubed patched ball was a was only a thousands or two tight to the bore size. Again not the groove dia.

The bullets or balls expand to totally fill the grooves in the barrel.
The very soft lead can expand greatly. Without a barrel to contain it, it would flatten out a lot. You all know how much the gun kicks on your shoulder and you know that the weight of the gun soaked up a lot of it. That blast is also hitting the soft lead the same amount. Which is enough to flatten it.

If you are testing for accuracy you certainly don't want tight fitting balls or bullets for a couple good reasons.

One is you distort the bullet or ball upon loading.

The next is that it is imposable to get that tight bullet or ball down on the powder consistently the same each time. You just can't feel how hard your pushing it into the powder.

As I have said before, black powder does not compress. It's granules break into finer parts if you try to push it into a smaller space then it fills normally or with gentle tapping. And there goes the accuracy out the window.
 
Diggers said:
I will try two or even three patch shots to see what seems to get the best results.

Just be a little wary about using three .005 patches. For some reason tripling them tend to load with more difficulty than when using a single .015 patch. Maybe Bore Butter lube adds thickness or their true thickness is understated.
Tight patched balls can be tapped in and started using a rubber or plastic mallet, and once engraved a tight loading ball is easier to ram.
But you don't want to break a wooden ramrod and impale your hand struggling with a tight loading ball.
But if the right accessories are on hand, then getting a tight ball stuck in the bore isn't as much of a worry.
Once a ball is started past the muzzle crown, it must be rammed all of the way down and seated on top of the powder.
Sometimes that requires some force.
A long thick section of wooden dowel and a mallet can be used to gently hammer down any tight load that can be started at the muzzle.
Competition shooters load much tighter balls than many folks would normally use, but they're prepared to hammer them in and some even use special teflon coated patches.
 
Last edited:
Robert Wilson and TheRodDoc -

Interesting theories, but at the end of the day it's how small (or large) the group size is on the target.

I'm not saying that you will or won't get the best results with a loose load or a tight load, just that you need to pick a starting point and do some testing.

Your gun will do what your gun wants regardless of whether or not you think you're crushing the powder or having a hard time pushing the ball down the bore or whatever. I've never found a loose ball/patch combination to be the best one for any particular gun. I'm not disputing your results or your theories, just providing my own experience.

I'm not saying diggers shouldn't try it, in fact, just the opposite: he should try several different combinations. If he finds out, by shooting his gun, that a loose ball/patch combination gives the best results, I'd be happy that he's got a good accurate gun and load combination that fits him and he can count on. If he gets the best results with a tighter combination, I'd be happy about that too.
 
SO...I think everything has finally arrived.

I just chased down the UPS guy on my street, I left the house for 40 minutes and of course that’s when he shows up with my black powder. :rolleyes: He didn't get away and now I have three pounds of powder FFFg sitting here next to me.

One question though, just to be sure and safe. The powder is Goex FFFg the company I ordered if from, Graff & Son, make a point of writing "pistol" next to it on the receipt. This is just their interpretation of what this powder is typically used for but it is indeed sometimes used in rifles too.......correct?

Cabela's has a load chart with 70 grains of FFFg in a manual sent with the rifle. Pedersoli, who made the gun, states FFFg, is used in rifles UP TO .45 cal and FFg is used in cals .45 and above.

Just want to be extra triple sure that what I got is ok to use.

Of course, today is my Sunday so I will have to look at all this stuff for a week before I get to use it. :cuss:
 
Yep. FFFg will work just fine in long rifles. I don't understand Pedersoli's 'FFFg up to .45' thing. FFFg is generally considered ok to use in .50 or below.
 
I get my best accuracy in all my rifles from the little 32 caliber to 58 caliber
with FF Black Powder. This after many many years and lots of testing.
 
OK. Good to go!

From the Cabela's manual it shows 70 grains of FFFg used in a 50 cal with a round ball.

Pops, who has the same gun, posted on the first page he uses 65 grains of FFFg and does well with that.

I'll stick to 60 or 65 grains to keep things below the max.

Strange though, in both manuals, there really isn't a clear statement of what the MAX load is, nor is there a range of grains to use. Just the number of 70 grains given, kinda odd.
 
Even though all of the Italian rifles are proof tested by an Italian proof house, each manufacturer lists their own recommended loads as if there was a substantive difference in the ultimate strength of their barrels. For practical purposes this is probably just a matter of lawyers protecting the company from product liability since the maximum proof load will have always been considerably larger than any maximum load that they recommend.
The Pedersoli owner's manual loading recommendation for their .45 Kentucky flintlock rifle is for a 34 grain to 90 grain maximum powder charge with a .445 round ball and a .010 patch.
 
Last edited:
Ahhh, ok I found it in the back of their manual arcticap.

For the Kentucky flintlock .50 cal Pedersoli gives a range of 55 to 100 grains.

I assume this is for FFg, so down loaded by 15% for FFFg that should be about 48 to 85 grains of powder.

Good to know.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top