Interesting Article on Gun-Control And Mexico Cartel Violence

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Prion

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Interesting read....

Gun control debate hangs over U.S.-Mexico violence


WASHINGTON – Members of Congress may be alarmed by the surge in Mexican drug violence and its potential to spill across the border, but they grow silent when the talk turns to gun control as a solution.

With related kidnappings and killings occurring in the U.S., the Obama administration is likely to shift dozens of enforcement agents and millions of dollars to the fight against Mexican drug cartels.

Yet when Attorney General Eric Holder suggested reinstituting a U.S. ban on the sale of certain semiautomatic weapons, many lawmakers balked. The 1994 ban expired after 10 years.

"The Second Amendment Task Force opposes the discussed ban and will fight any attempts that infringe on our Second Amendment rights," said Rep. Paul Broun, R-Ga., a chairman of the group. Six Democrats and six Republicans co-signed his statement.

Mexico has long tried to get the United States to curtail the number of guns — many purchased legally — that wind up south of the border, where gun laws are much stricter. The State Department says firearms obtained in the U.S. account for an estimated 95 percent of Mexico's drug-related killings.

"If President (Felipe) Calderon's policies to roll back organized crime are to be successful, we need to defang the power of the drug syndicates to inflict damage upon our state, local and police forces," Arturo Sarukhan, the Mexican ambassador to the United States, said in January. "The best way we can do that is for a real ratcheting up of the United States' capabilities of shutting down the flow of weapons."

That may prove tough to do.

After opposition from the National Rifle Association, 22 Democrats joined Republicans in a Senate vote this month to negate the District of Columbia's tough gun registration requirements and overturn its ban on rapid-fire semiautomatic weapons. More than 80 House Democrats backed a similar measure last year.

The gun lobby has raised more than $20 million for political candidates since the 1990 election cycle, with about 85 percent going to Republicans. That ranks 68th among about 80 industry groups tracked by the OpenSecrets.org campaign finance watchdog.

When border violence comes up in hearings, lawmakers say they don't see a need for new gun laws.

"I don't think the solution to Mexico's problems is to limit Second Amendment gun rights in this country," said Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, chairman of the Senate GOP's election committee. "What we can do is help our Mexican friends enforce their own laws."

Republican Rep. Jeff Flake said he believed a recent hearing on Mexico drug violence was actually a discussion of gun control.

"Instead of punishing law-abiding Americans with stricter controls, we must continue to punish those who break the law," said Flake, of Arizona, where 700 cartel-related kidnappings have occurred over two years.

For his part, Obama has signaled a willingness to tighten restrictions on guns, calling the flow of drug money and guns "a two-way situation." Yet 65 Democrats said in a letter to Holder that they would oppose any attempt by the administration to revive a ban on military-style weapons.

Congress did provide $45 million this year for Project Gunrunner, a federal program aimed at curbing the flow of guns. Rep. Ciro Rodriguez, a Texas Democrat on the Appropriations Committee, said he will seek another $30 million over two years for the program and $30 million more to fund efforts by Immigration and Customs Enforcement to crack down on gun trafficking.

Tom Diaz, an analyst at the Violence Policy Center, a gun control group, said cartels use military-style weapons such as the Armalite AR-50, a .50-caliber sniper rifle.

He brought one to a recent congressional hearing — with the help of two police officers — and said he found the weapon on the Internet, bought it for $3,200 from a Maryland "kitchen table" dealer and had it registered in the District of Columbia, all in about six hours.

Semiautomatic rifles used by the cartels are imported legally into the U.S. as "sporting" weapons, a policy that was stopped for years but revived under President George W. Bush. The government could stop importation of those weapons under the 1968 Gun Control Act and thus keep them from winding up in Mexico, Diaz said.

Rep. John Tierney, D-Mass., who chaired a hearing on guns going to Mexico, said he is not seeking widespread gun control but Congress must do something.

"We don't want to get distracted by the gun industry lobby of the NRA trying to talk about (how) every attempt to bring some sanity to the situation is somehow an attempt to get rid of everybody's Second Amendment rights," he said. "That's a red herring."

Sarukhan, the Mexican ambassador, said Mexico simply wants existing U.S. gun laws applied.

"Just on the Arizona and Texas border, there are 12,000 gun shops and countless other gun shows that week in and week out rove around the border area," Sarukhan said.

___

On the Net:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives: http://www.atf.gov

Drug Enforcement Administration: http://www.dea.gov
 
logic

Ok the US GOVERNMENT supplies the Mexican government, ADMITTEDLY COOPTED by drug cartels, weapons, military equipment, night vision, advanced optics and audio, and they want to blame the civilian market when the sh$% ends up in cartel hands. LMFAO tell me another one! Thats funny!
By the way, these things are prohibitively expensive from the US compared to the much cheaper imports coming from South America up. Funny, I was looking at this situation and although some have been tracked back here, I venture that they were stolen from the number of criminal acts such as burglary committed by the same folks kidnapping people. This 90% is not even remotely accurate as to the percentage of guns that the criminals get being from the US. From what I understand, they are not giving us SN's. This is another hurry up and vote attempt by One Big A$$ Mistake America. Seems he creates CRISIS mentality and then tells everyone hurry hurry fix it pass THIS! This falls into the same Modus operandi.
 
If you look at the originial article posted on Yahoo news you'll see an accompanying picture showing the weapons that were supposedly smuggled from the United States. Most of them are machine guns, submachine guns and RPGs, none of which can be purchased without special federal licensing and permission. There are also two rows of live hand grenades, something I've never seen offered for sale at a gun shop.

It's all smoke and mirrors but luckily it doesn't appear to be working as a strategy thus far though we do have to remain vigilant. Members of Congress have to be made to realize that their jobs are riding on how they handle this issue; try to ban semi-automatic rifles and shotguns and we will vote you out.
 
"Just on the Arizona and Texas border, there are 12,000 gun shops and countless other gun shows that week in and week out rove around the border area," Sarukhan said.

Since I live in the southeast Arizona-Mexico border area I’d like to know where all of these gun shops are. There are few population centers - in Arizona, Tucson and Phoenix come to mind - but otherwise the border country is largely uninhabited.

Of course if you want to count all of the gun and licensed pawnshops in both states you probably could meet or exceed that number.

What we see here, with the total support of the U.S. mainstream media, and BATF&E, is an attempt to misrepresent where most of the military class weapons are really coming from. Does anyone think that the Mexican government would not cooperate in any effort on the part of gun-banners in the United States to institute firearm controls that copy they’re own?

Also does anyone think that the Mexican government is making any effort to help control the traffic in drugs and illegal immigrants coming north when the same smugglers are the ones taking guns south? It’s all part of one big package, and the people involved are making so much money they don’t need an Obama bail-out. :fire: :banghead:
 
When my father traveled to Mexico two weeks ago he heard that the majority of captured drug cartel weapons were all american, but they weren't from gunshows they were tracked back to the police departments in Dallas, TX and New York City. The serial numbers were from guns taken off the streets and presumed destroyed.
 
I have spent many months on end in Mexico for business. The longest stay was 3 months.

Mexico's problems are Mexico's problems, and trying to shift the blame to the USA is just a political ploy. One that fits in nicely with the current administrations policy on civilian owned arms, the anti's will make sure the story fits their ends, and the liberal media will help them.

Do you really think that the drug cartels worry about getting arms from US suppliers, I don't.

From a black market US individual maybe, but they have enough money to get their arms from anywhere they choose.

They are using weapons such as grenades, fully automatic weapons, RPG's, anti tank rounds, and others that are not available to any gun store in the USA; so where are they getting these armaments?

They are buying on the international black market and this is where they are getting the vast majority of their arms, as well a through the Mexican Army, and the Federallies'.

They have money to burn, and no reason to stop what they are doing.

The top dogs do not get involved in shoot outs, but they certainly pay more that the local tienda, and if that doesn't work they will kill your family if you do not fight for them.

I love Mexico and most of it's people, and had a great time when I was there, but politicians on both side of the boarder are lying about where the guns and other weapons are coming from.
 
more lunacy from the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/obama.mexico.policy/index.html


Obama to beef up Mexico border policy (ha!)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Obama administration announced a major increase in security funding and the deployment of U.S.-Mexico border agents Tuesday as part of a comprehensive new plan to beef up resources at the Mexican border.


President Obama is concerned by the increased level of violence on the Mexican border, the White House says.

The plan commits $700 million to bolster Mexican law enforcement and crime prevention efforts. (Deke's Translation: because damnit, DVD's didn't work on Brown and they damn sure just won't do for these whiners who can't control their own citizens)The funds will provide, among other things, five new helicopters to increase mobility (Deke's Translation: and enhance drug mule efficiency in border patrol location and avoidance) for the Mexican army and air force as well as new surveillance aircraft for the Mexican navy. (Deke's Translation: most will be deployed on Mexico's southern border, -hey you said border control Senior Presidente, just not which- to help locate and kill anyone crossing there, while feigning outrage if a Mexican national, illegal, stubs his toe in the US.)

The initiative is designed to help with Mexico's accelerating war against violent drug cartels. (Deke's Translation: but the cartels expressed great excitement over their new toys and cash, we're providing.)

The plan, developed by the departments of Justice and Homeland Security, calls for doubling the number of border security task force teams as well as moving a significant number of other federal agents, equipment and resources to the border.

It also involves greater intelligence sharing aimed at cracking down on the flow of money and weapons into Mexico, (Deke's Translation: untaxed and undocumented, coming from "migrant workers" and being sent home , surpassing or at least equaling money sent back for drugs) which helps fuel the drug trade, the officials said.

"The president is concerned by the increased level of violence, particularly in [the border cities of] Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana, and the impact that it is having on the communities on both sides of the border," the White House press office said in a statement.

"He believes that the United States must continue to monitor the situation and guard against spillover into the United States. (Deke's Translation: Bang up job so far) [He] is firmly committed to ensuring our borders are secure, (Deke's Translation: "secure" for crossing and fully stocked with supplies) and we are doing all we can to reduce (Deke's Translation: all we can to reduce... media coverage of...) illegal flows in both directions across the border."

The plan also will fund enhanced communications technology for Mexican prosecutors, law enforcement and immigration officials.

The funds, meant to assist what administration officials described as an "anti-smuggling effort," will complement ongoing U.S. aid to Mexico under the Merida initiative, a three-year $1.4 billion (Deke's Translation: and exceedingly successful) package aimed at helping Mexico fight the drug cartels with law enforcement training, military equipment (Deke's translation: aha! the equipment IS coming from the US, just not how they said it was) and improved intelligence cooperation.

The administration also is looking to increase intelligence cooperation (Deke's Translation: thus letting the cartels, who have infiltrated the government intelligence community over there, know exactly what where when and how we'll be attempting to get them) on the border with Mexican authorities, tighten enforcement of existing U.S. executive orders (Deke's Translation: because those pesky executive orders don't do SH%^ without personnel and funding for OUR guys) to go after drug trafficking money and money laundering and step up investigation and prosecution (Deke's Translation: Which will be sure to be ineffective with the ACLU firmly implanted in the government's southerly and rear nether regions) of cartel-related activities in America, the officials said.

To help strengthen the U.S. side of the border, the administration also plans to triple the number of Department of Homeland Security intelligence analysts dedicated to stopping Mexican-related violence (Deke's Translation: Mexican-related violence is defined as "self defense" attempts by those pesky US citizens thinking they have a right to life liberty and all that other BS, when a cartel member tries to kidnap them). It also will increase the number of immigration officials working in Mexico, double the number of "Violent Criminal Alien" teams on the border, strengthen the presence of border canine units and quadruple the number of border liaison officers (Deke's Translation: professional a$$ kissers on the tax payerdollar, who will keep Mexico from being offended, and keep they and the ACLU quiet, and make the illegals' stay as comfortable as possible. Also to enhance their illegal cross border experiences while they are testifying against those who were tasked with actual protection of the border.) working with Mexican law enforcement.

It also will make an additional $59 million (Deke's Translation: 700 million versus 59 million, hmm looks like we'll be outclassed by the cartels Fo Sho dog! Fist Bump To Ya!) in federal funds available to support state, local and tribal border law enforcement operations.

At the same time, more agents from the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Explosives will be deployed to the border region. The agents will be given updated equipment and surveillance technology to help the track movement of cash, drugs and weapons (Deke's Translation: Track the cash and Weapons? we already know where they're going and coming from, the US governement to the Cartels, what the he%^ was this whole article about?).

"We are discussing more things we can do to address the very real problem of currency and weapons moving into Mexico (Deke's Translation: again coming from Uncle Sammy) and at the same time trying to prevent potential border spillover," one senior administration official said.

The plan (Deke's Translation: plan to print more money, make our kids pay for it, and send it to the cartels) is scheduled to be announced at the White House by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, Deputy Secretary of State Jim Steinberg and U.S. Deputy Attorney General David Ogden.

The announcement comes shortly ahead of a planned visit of three Cabinet secretaries to Mexico before President Obama visits there next month. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visits Mexico City this week, to be followed next week by Napolitano and Attorney General Eric Holder.


Mexican President Felipe Calderon has been pushing back against U.S. criticism of drug cartel-related violence, which killed about 6,500 people in Mexico last year. In speeches and other recent comments, the Calderon has said the United States also must take responsibility because much of the demand for drugs and most of the weapons used by narcotraffickers come from the United States. (Deke's Translation: School yard two year old pointing finger crying "he started it")

"Mexico believes we are not acknowledging the transitional nature of the problem and the role the U.S. is playing in this," another senior administration official said. "So we are looking at what U.S.law enforcement agencies can do to respond to the Mexican concerns." (Deke's Translation: so we're buying them more sh%^ to shut them up. That sh%^, in turn, will go right into the cartels' hands, since the government is coopted by said cartels)
 
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Not to mention they wont share the serial numbers of captured weapons so we can't know for sure where they are coming from anyway.
 
rapid-fire semiautomatic weapons
Thats a new one.

"We don't want to get distracted by the gun industry lobby of the NRA trying to talk about (how) every attempt to bring some sanity to the situation is somehow an attempt to get rid of everybody's Second Amendment rights," he said. "That's a red herring."
No, it isn't. Red herrings are deliberate attempts to change the subject or divert the conversation. Saying you don't agree with more firearms laws because it will impede upon the rights of Americans is a valid response. Just because somebody doesn't agree with what you say doesn't make their response a red herring.
 
The plot gets thicker. :uhoh:

White House unveils anti-cartel effort for border

DEVLIN BARRETT and EILEEN SULLIVAN (Associated Press Writers)
From Associated Press
March 24, 2009 11:26 AM EDT

WASHINGTON - The Obama administration plans to send more agents and equipment to the southwestern border to fight Mexican drug cartels and keep violence from spilling over into the United States.

Speaking at the White House Tuesday, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said officials were still considering whether to deploy the National Guard to the border. She plans to meet with the governor of Texas to discuss the matter.

Deputy Attorney General David Ogden pledged "to destroy these criminal organizations" through a united effort on both sides of the border.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton will travel to Mexico Wednesday for the start of several weeks of high-level meetings between the two countries on the drug violence issue.

Many of the moves announced Tuesday are a continuation or expansion of programs that already existed under the Bush administration.

Violent turf battles among the cartels have wracked Mexico in recent years, and led to a spate of kidnappings and home invasions in some U.S. cities.

Authorities said they will increase the number of immigrations and customs agents, drug agents and anti-gun trafficking agents operating along the border.

Prosecutors say they will make a greater effort to go after those smuggling guns and drug profits from the U.S. into Mexico.

Officials said President Barack Obama is particularly concerned about killings in Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana, and wants to prevent such violence from spilling over into the United States.

Among the moves the government is making:

-Doubling the border enforcement security teams that combine local, state, and federal officers.

-Adding 16 new Drug Enforcement Administration positions in the southwest region. DEA currently has more than 1,000 agents working in the southwest border region.

-Sending 100 more people form the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to the border in the next 45 days. A recent bill passed by Congress already provided money for the ATF to hire 37 new agents and support staff in the region to fight gun trafficking.

-Boosting the FBI's intelligence and analysis work on Mexican drug cartel crime.

The administration is also highlighting $700 million that Congress has already approved to support Mexico's efforts to fight the cartels.

Yet the plan so far falls short of Texas Gov. Rick Perry's request last month that 1,000 troops be sent to bolster border security in his state.

During a visit to El Paso last month, Perry said he had asked Napolitano for aviation assets and "1,000 more troops that we can commit to different parts of the border."

Asked then it he wanted the military, Perry said, "I really don't care. As long as they are boots on the ground that are properly trained to deal with the border region, I don't care whether they are military troops, or National Guard troops or whether they are customs agents."

Last week, a Perry spokeswoman said that federal border protection had been underfunded for some time and that the 1,000 extra troops Perry requested would fill in gaps that state and local agencies have been covering.

While Mexico has insisted the U.S. take more responsibility in the drug fight, officials south of the border have also bristled at the increasing "militarization" of the border.

(Exactly just how is this any of their business? Do they seriously expect the United States will invade Mexico?)

Mexico officials are likely to welcome the stepped up efforts north of the border, but they have argued that much of the extra border security added recently has made illegal immigration more dangerous and done little to nothing to crackdown on the illegal weapons trade.

(So illegal immigration is O.K., but the illegal weapons trade isn't? :confused:)
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Contributing to this report were Associated Press writer Christopher Sherman in McAllen, Texas, and Traci Carl in Mexico City.

*****************************************
http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20090324/49c868d0_3421_1334520090324-22545503
 
Come on, someone must have a statistic on how many FFLs there are in the US, let alone the southwest. I refuse to believe that there are 12,000 along the border.
 
What's most disturbing about this issue is the fact that the federal government has abdicated its responsibility when it comes to our southern border. The primary reason the federal government exists is to protect the United States from outside aggression. If the Mexican civil war (and that's exactly what the conflict in Mexico is) threatens the lives of United States citizens then it is a matter for the Army. Instead of sending infantry and military police to Iraq and Afghanistan they should be placed on our border with Mexico and they should be prepared to counter-attack. Unlike terrorists both sides in this conflict have standing armies as well as armored vehicles and naval forces. The cartels actually have submarines for heaven's sake. Some are crude and fairly primitive but others are nuclear powered, bought on the black market after the fall of the U.S.S.R. We shouldn't be waiting for a repeat of Columbus, NM before action is taken. Let Mexico self-destruct. As long as the border is sealed it isn't our problem. That may sound cold but Mexico is a sovereign nation and must be allowed to solve its own problems. Byproducts of sealing the border using the armed forces would also include a dramatic reduction in illegal immigration and land based smuggling. Anybody who's been outside Fort Bliss in recent years knows that the surrounding area is like occupied territory and might as well be part of Mexico.

Instead of locking down the border, however, new measures will be proposed to restrict our right to keep and bear arms. And the same tactics that were used to pass the AWB, namely trying to confuse the public as to the difference between semi-auto and full auto firearms, are being employed again. Hand grenades are not legal. Rocket propelled grenades are not legal. Machine guns require a tax stamp and are exceedingly difficult to obtain; they are not for over the counter sale. Never the less, recent news stories imply that gun shops are providing MGs and grenades to cartels so they can murder policemen. The past is prologue. Complete nonsense. Let's keep the pressure on our politicians and remind them where we stand.
 
"Really? That's the first time I've heard this."

Yeah,it's true sadly. It make's you wonder where they get that 90% figure doesn't it?
 
Yeah,it's true sadly. It make's you wonder where they get that 90% figure doesn't it?

I have no doubts about where they got that figure from . . . I just can't say it in polite company.

Let me preface my next remarks by saying that I love the Mexican people. I've traveled there a handful of times and have found them to be kind and generous. Their government? Not so much. I guess it shouldn't shock me, but it does, that we would consider for one second allowing indignant proclamations from their corrupt leaders to influence our national discourse on Constitutional rights.

I guess it shows how low the anti-gun forces will go.
 
partial transcript from CNN (Lou Dobbs)

DOBBS: Enforcing the ones that we do have. Eric Holder making it very clear that it's one of the reasons that he was -- well, gun ownership groups all over the country opposing him and then here in less than -- in just over a month in office, he is out doing exactly what they feared he would do. And by the way, we should point out, Eric Holder obviously does not know anything about which he's speaking when it comes to Mexico.

TUCKER: Right.

DOBBS: Because the Mexican government will not even provide serial numbers that they say come from American weapons that have brought -- been brought in from the United States, leading a lot of people in law enforcement to think that they're lying through their lovely little teeth on this issue. Not providing the serial numbers. No one can figure out why they won't provide those serial numbers.

TUCKER: Well and as you well know, and we reported here often, they're often armed with weapons that were issued by the Mexican military.
 
Because the Mexican government will not even provide serial numbers that they say come from American weapons that have brought

Because they are weak and the Mexican Government is always hanging on by a thread, and the are politicizing this for their own ends, basically they are liars.:cuss:
 
Letting Mexico fall into chaos......

What do you think will happen if the Cartels take completely over? What happens if they win a revolution? How far is Mexico from this?
 
The corruption in Mexico is enormous and includes the military, LEO's and even Government officials, and I would not be surprised if the cartels win this battle.

On everyone of my visits the Mexican Government provide armed escorts for me wherever I went, they were afraid I would be kidnapped, and that the business that I was bringing to Mexico would be lost.

As I see it, IMHO, the only hope Mexico has is if the USA steps in and wages war on the drug cartels.

I am not sure that our current leaders have the B--ls for this.
 
Write your congressperson, pointing out the use of miltary weaponry which is not at all available from US gunshows or gun dealers. Also point out that billionaire narcotrafficantes can readily get fully-automatic weaponry from the suppliers or through-points of the drug trade: From Chavez' Venezuela, for example; remember his purchase of 100,000 AK-47s?

But this thread is far more about politics than any legal issue...
 
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