Interesting encounter at the DNR shooting range

[Grey Morel]

I went to the DNR shooting range today, at the Kingsburry FWA. This is the second time I've been.

The first time, I was drawing from a holster, and firing / re-holstering between shots. When I had finished my magazine, the range officer came up to me and politely told me such activities were not allowed. I imediately stoped that activity and continued shooting as normal.

This second trip, I did not engage in that activity. But I was carying my piece in my holster on my belt. I have a valid Indiana unlimited permit to carry a handgun. I went today to get more trigger time with my AR-15. I checked into the office as normal.

After posting my targets durring the "all clear", I sat down at my bench and began loading my rifle. I felt a tug on my belt, and heard a familiar "click". I turned around to find the range officer staring down at me, holding my pistol.

He said: "Your not allowed to carry in here!". I looked at his belt and saw that he was carrying a Sig Sauer handgun in a leather duty holster. He was unsnaped. I told him that i had a carry permit, and he told me that it was illegal to carry on DNR propery for "safety reasons". I searched the Indiana state statutes online, and I can't find anything that specificaly prohibits carry by a lisenced permit holder. I found IAC 8-2-3 but I am not well versed in law and am having some dificulty interpreting.

I've got two questions for you fellow High-Roaders:

1) How would YOU react if someone snuck up behind you unanounced and grabbed your gun from your holster?

2) Is the range officer mistaken? I find it hard to believe that I can carry a firearm in public, but not at a shooting range. If thats true it is incredibly silly.

 

[crushbup]

1) How would YOU react if someone snuck up behind you unanounced and grabbed your gun from your holster?

I'd grab a BUG and shoot him, unless in that split second I saw a reason not to.

2) Is the range officer mistaken? I find it hard to believe that I can carry a firearm in public, but not at a shooting range. If thats true it is incredibly silly.

I don't know about the regulations around there, but he was carrying, so it seems quite silly.

 

[GojuBrian]

I would not react well if someone grabbed my gun right out of my holster, no matter who they were.
The range officer should have asked you to do something about it. When he turned around you should have grabbed his,lol. (not really). I would complain to the powers that be atleast!
Unbelievable!!

 

[jnyork]

You need to contact the supervisor of that range officer, what he did with grabbing your gun is just insane and could have had very bad results for either him or you, very dangerous act to say the least. If he is that goofy he does not belong in that position.

 

[Straight Shooter]

1) How would YOU react if someone snuck up behind you unanounced and grabbed your gun from your holster?

I would have a serious issue with this. I would talk to the owners. It's one thing to take you off the line and explain the rules of the range it quite another to pull your gun from its holster. That's incredibly unsafe and uncalled for.

Is the range officer mistaken? I find it hard to believe that I can carry a firearm in public, but not at a shooting range. If thats true it is incredibly silly.

I don't know the law in your area but it sounds to me that it is a range rule not an actual law. Although I agree its a dumb rule it's their prerogative.

There are two ranges that I frequent, both indoor, one has the same rule the other does not.

The range that allows it is a range only.

The range that does not allow it is also a busy gun shop. I have spoken to the employees of the range that does not allow you to carry and they stated that it is for safety reasons as well. Since they have so many people handling guns they want to make sure they are not loaded.

 

[KevininPa]

Find the supervisor. File an official complaint. That is just wrong on too many levels.

 

[geronimo509]

I agree that the guy shouldn't have done that and that you should complain.

With that said, you should be more aware of your surroundings! Especially with all the things that are happening at ranges.

I hope all ends well. Personally, I would not ever shoot there again.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Well based off my training, anyone who grabs my sidearm without me knowing/allowing is at least getting some form in injury such as a broken nose. I would probably end up drawing, but not firing per Rule 4.

Range rules aside, you grab my weapon from behind, I'm treating you like a hostile until I know you aren't.

 

[model of 1905]

Every range I have attended has it's rules posted. If it was against range rules for you to carry a holstered gun, you should never have been allowed on the range with it. I don't agree with the range officer's methods in any way, shape or form. Remember tho, range rules are made for the safety of all.

One range I am a member of doesn't allow OC thru the office/store but will allow a holstered gun on the range and allow practice draw/firing if you have proved the capability to safely do so to their satisfaction.

The City Range here will not allow any holstered guns on the range period.

Bottom line is, if you don't like the range rules, don't shoot there.

 

[Officers'Wife]

First rule of any range: His range, his rules. On public lands in Indiana you are essentially a guest after all. While I agree he should have handled the situation differently, I don't believe he was out of line for the situation.

 

[Grey Morel]

The same range rules are posted at this range that are posted at the other DNR ranges that i have been to:

* hearing and eye protection must be worn at all times
* all firing must be done from inside the shelter or from one of the provided benches
* nobody allowed forward of the yellow firing line, except durring cease fire
* no armor piercing ammunition
* no automatic weapons
* paper targets only

I saw no other rules posted, and I was open carrying when the range officer checked me in. If I would have been informed of this un-posted rule, i would have complied. I just cant believe the old man had the balls to sneak up on me and grab my sidearm.

I don't mind the range rules either. Its a great facility, and now that I know the rule i will follow it. But I DO think the way he acted was rediculous.

 

[JohnBT]

"I'd grab a BUG and shoot him"

Let's see, he's holding a loaded gun - yours - and has one of his own and you're going to try and outdraw him?

How foolish are you? You can't be that stupid can you?

John

 

[Macgille]

At my local range, holstered pistols are NOT allowed. All guns must be left in their cases until at the firing line. No guns to be cased or uncased anywhere else at the range. All weapons must have a safety tag in the breech at cease fire.

The idiot who grabbed your gun should have been decked on the spot. However, you should have secured your weapon better. There is no reason to have a handgun in a holster while you are shooting a long gun. Range safety is paramount and is everyone's responsibility.

 

[BhmBill]

Did I read that right?

He unholstered your weapon and disarmed you without saying anything? From behind.

Definitely let the management know what happened.

***.

 

[Grey Morel]

I can appreciate range policy, especialy if its for safety.

But YES Bill, you DID read that right. He approach from behind, unanounced, and disarmed me while I was loading my rifle.

 

[evan price]

Macgille: There is no reason to have a handgun in a holster while you are shooting a long gun.

WTH are you thinking? The best time for people to cause problems is when you are downrange setting targets. Shooting at a public range- I personally would not want to be around the general public without my own holstered weapon.

As far as snatching a gun out of someone's holster- you've got a loaded rifle. He's lucky he didn't get shot- or at least buttstorke, buttsweep, then reconsider further action. You need to be MORE SITUATIONALLY AWARE to let someone just walk up and yank your gun out of your holster like that!

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Macgille

The idiot who grabbed your gun should have been decked on the spot.

Not very good advice.

In Indiana a DNR employee is considered a law enforcement officer. One of the rare birds the state will actually prosecute a battery on. A felony conviction would pretty much have the guy taking every firearm away.

 

[Cpt. America]

Thank God I live in the South. I don't know how I would have reacted to that. But I think if you have a permit to carry you were in the right, I would definetly bring this issue to his supervisor.

 

[happygeek]

The range I just got a membership at has a bunch of rules like no concealed carry, no more than 8 rounds in the gun, but at least they're not PC and don't ban you from shooting at silhouettes. Apparently, they have their no concealed carry rule because some idiot ADed a round thru a wall in the clubhouse while showing someone else his CCW. I saw the hole in the wall, glad I wasn't in the kitchen there when it happened.

Luckily, their fiscal year ends in Aug, and so does my membership if I don't renew. I plan on looking for a range with more relaxed rules and less ADs before then.

Of course, as everyone aforementioned, your range safety officer is an idiot.

 

[Grey Morel]

You guys and gals are right about the situational awareness. I normaly and very suspicious of others when i am open carrying, but I guess I assumed I was safe and among my own people at a shooting range.

It didn't help that i was wearing ears either: I couldn't hear him walking up, and I don't have eyes in the back of my head. I've been thinking of getting a more secure holster since I started OC'ing. I guess I need to make that a priority and get on it.

 

[alemonkey]

I can't believe all the people who are saying they would have shot, punched, or drawn on this guy. Seriously! He's holding the gun, he has the upper hand. Yes, the range officer was an idiot, but the correct way to handle a situation like this is to defuse the situation, then follow up later by filing a complaint with his superiors.

The range officer created a very dangerous situation by his actions, and has no business running the range if he's going to do that sort of thing. But escalating it further with physical violence would be just as stupid. Even if you win (doubtful), you're going to lose in the long run.

As far as situational awareness, I can definitely see how it would be easy to sneak up on someone at a range. Loud noises plus ear protection would make it easy. Plus, if you see the range officer behind you you're going to assume he's one of the good guys.

 

[JochenWeber]

This is just unbelievable. If I were you I would file a complaint. Grabbing your gun from your holster is insane and very dangerous as well. I wouldn't shoot there anymore.

 

[happygeek]

Well, I'm assuming that everyone who says they would have punched, maced, drawn on, etc. the guy are saying that would have been their reaction (reaction as in what you'd do without thinking).

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I can't believe all the people who are saying they would have shot, punched, or drawn on this guy. Seriously! He's holding the gun, he has the upper hand. Yes, the range officer was an idiot, but the correct way to handle a situation like this is to defuse the situation, then follow up later by filing a complaint with his superiors.

Some people have been trained to treat a grab at their weapon as a hostile act, and their reaction may not be to casually turn around and strike up a conversation with the assailant.

 

[Grey Morel]

I knew he was standing in that general area to my 5 O'clock, but it never occured to me that he would do such a thing.

If he would have simply tapped me on the shoulder and explained himself I wouldn't have had any issue with it.