Interesting robbery tactic

[Bear Gulch]

And kevlar skivvies!

My first vest (back in the 80s) had a flap in front that could be lowered to cover the dodads and it had a kevlar insert for it. I remember thinking: If I take a direct hit to the hydraulics I don't wanna live!

 

[Khaotic]

Actually, lemme relate to you the one, and ONLY, time I have ever been successfully mugged.

Walk into public restroom, unzip, and am handling the business, when the fellow who came in after I did, instead of also taking a leak, pulls a small revolver and puts it behind my right ear.

Bloody hell, what can ya do ?

I just started laughing and handed him the $21 or so in small bills in my top shirt pocket - this guy wasn't stupid either, he hightailed it VERY quickly, making it fruitless to give chase.

Definately changed two policies, one of which is if at all possible, I never use a public restroom, I'll drive home if need be, then come back.
Or, if I absolutely must, I have a buddy covering my back.

Said mugger easily exploited the simple fact that guys are just about helpless with a handful of lizard they're in the middle of draining - thankfully most of em ain't that smart.

-K

 

[johnnymenudo]

I am starting to wonder about some of the people on this board. A guy threatens to shoot you and shows you a gun in his waistband, and your response is I would beat him up? What about his accomplice 20 feet behind you? What about that fact that he might actually be able to beat you up and in the process pull his gun and end your life? I am sure that some of you have very high self esteem regarding your hand to hand combat skills, but this is not the movies, and the good guy does not always win. T here is no answer that is going to be right 100% of the time, but my thought is either you give in to his demands and hope for the best, or you respond with deadly force looking for his accomplice the minute threat #1 has ended.

JM

 

[Zundfolge]

Definately changed two policies, one of which is if at all possible, I never use a public restroom, I'll drive home if need be, then come back.
Or, if I absolutely must, I have a buddy covering my back.

This is one reason I don't use urinals ... I go into a stall, close and lock the door behind me (and if there's a handicapped stall, all the better ... they can't reach you from the door in those).

The other reason is splash ... kinda gross to pee on a porcelain wall with all that urine splashing back on your shirt, hands and pants

 

[walking arsenal]

What about his acomplice 20 feet behind me?

It's 20 feet thats about 3 seconds of time (remember 21 foot rule), and it takes a lot longer to draw a gun than it does to put your hands into play. the guys that would wack the BG probably know this. The gun isnt always the ultimate equilizer, the effectivness of it depends on two factors distance or time and your ability to draw and fire in that time.

If we use the senario and you fall for it, that being the key, your probably face to face. IF you are trained and he is not, thats a good place to be, that's less distance you have to close to make a move. Now the way i see it is that the guy is standing there with the gun IN his pants going "give money or ill draw this gun and shoot you with it". This is the guy that needs to be delt with first since obviously he is closer.

There are a number of moves that could be used that would slow BG 1's draw time.

examples:
A strike to the soler plexus
A strike to the throat (one of my favs)
Knife hand to the kneck
A strike to his drawing arm

If he is leaning against a brick wall GREAT! pin his draw arm, draw HIS gun and turn it on him.
The second guy IF he exists and we should assume he does, should be worried about and delt with second if you can. you may have to deal with them both at once which lessens your odds, in that case deal with the gun and try and make some distance to use yours.

Johnnymenudo
You are obsolutly correct in saying that "There is no answer that is going to be right 100% of the time"

But you also go to the risk of trying to beat him to the draw? I wont say that it wouldnt work but with the distance you have, i'd go hands before iron. but thats just me. The best idea would be to avoid the situation all together but you know that sometimes just doesnt happen and then you have to play the cards your delt with the best of your ability.

Zundfolge
EWWW, man, i never thought about that before.

 

[johnnymenudo]

One of the things about the disarm him and turn his own gun on him idea, is that if you disarm him and find yourself holding a replica gun or a bb gun, you feel pretty stupid as he slices your guts open with the knife he had in his pocket. I would never count on a disarm for any reason but to disarm - it is not a "give me your gun so I can shoot you with it" scenario. Not everyone maintains their weapons well and I would be better off with my own weapon that I know functions, and that I am familiar with. I still think if you are forced to respond with violence you need to use your own weapon and hope that your training pays off. There is nothing wrong with a close quarters weapons draw with one hand, and control the opponent with the other while you fire from the hip close up into center mass. .

JM

 

[walking arsenal]

You keep adding things to the scenario.

I suppose i could go and say: And while your trying to draw on him you forgot about the guy thirty feet behind him in the back of the toyota with the squad automatic weapon.

You do it your way, I'll do it mine and hopefully neither of us will ever have to do either.

 

[sm]

I am another that does not understand all the vanity plates and stickers folks "advertise" with. I am required to have a hang tag to park at College. I still have a sticker from my former College, as that allows me to park at that College when I use their Library.

I had a classmate get a real bad scare - she had her name on her front plate, a gift from her mom when she bought that vehicle. Mom thought it was a "cute" gesture. Coupled with a "required" parking sticker to park at her Apartment complex - she was stalked.

I had a very stern visit with the owner's and Resident Mgr of said complex. Too easy to follow a young lady home to where she lives. I made my point when I used a sticker on an owner's vehicle and left a note on his doorstep...and he lives in a gated community. This complex no longer uses such stickers...a young lady was attacked ( nurse coming in after late shift- 11pm) not long after my classmate moved from there and the stickers were still in use.

Handicapped license plates are another NO-NO IMO. Too easy to follow these folks . Mom had two friends attacked at home, while still in the carport - followed home from the drug store.

My mom uses a Hang Tag for her Handicapped parking. I Insisted on it.

Now I don't offer strangers smokes, or lights for one. I seem rude or impolite to folks in some areas - I am scanning, paying attention.

I had to apologize to a guy the other day, I totally ignored him as he hollered at me. I had taken mom out to run errands, at the hardware store someone hollered at me...We kept going. Once mom was inside, here comes the guy back into the store - he said something ( an old phrase) I didn't recognize this guy. Former UC , last time I saw him he had a ponytail and beard. With short hair, trimmed mustache, casual slacks and sport coat...graying hair - I didn't recognize him.

I hadn't heard or used that old password in 15 years...

He laughed off the apology- heck he would have done the same thing...

Back in the day - I never recognized him ( or others like him) when out and about. They always said something to me first. They might be working. We had passwords/ phrases.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Stuff like this is exactly why I won't wear a name badge at work. The bosses think it's a good idea to have everyone wear a namebadge with thier name and hometown on it so our customers feel like "one of the family" or some such garbage.

I told them if they forced me to wear it, I would quit, no question, and why I refused. My boss handed me the name badge and a pair of side cutters. No further problems.

 

[sm]

Name Badges and Logo'd Shirts...arrgghh

I kept my hospital badge in my inside scrub top pocket. I had to use the badge to clock in/ out and access keyless entries.

I suggest to hospital folks to flip the badge over when in public ( outside on Campus) and take it off when out and about ( grocery store after work for example).

Thrift stores...great place to buy Logo'd shirts like the Utility folks wear, FedEx, UPS...

People "feel safe" never ask for ID and then wonder how come they got robbed.

I dunno - I spent over 35yrs in Retail - never needed a Logo shirt or badge...
I still get asked at the grocery store where something is...me dressed as I do. What about asking the folks with grocery store badges and or Logo'd shirts - they probably know.

Perception of feeling safe - just illuminates the easy prey.

 

[Bear Gulch]

Mr Menudo,

Why do you assume that if we use hand to han it is NON LETHAL?

I can and would kill someone with my hands. Then mR. butt munch 20 feet behind me is then 10. He'll probably hurt me and I am willing to accept that, but I will then do my best to kill him too.

 

[Igloodude]

I agree that drawing and not shooting creates the potential for more problems. However I would find it difficult (moralely) to draw and fire if he was not going for his weapon/already had it. However I would have no problem firing if he attempts to flee, take a hostage, etc. At that point I feel that he is a danger to myself and others by his continued action. Overall I would agree with you that when the weapon comes out you should be in a situation where you ARE making the shot, not merely where you COULD be shooting.

I'm a bit surprised that you would have a problem firing if he was just standing there, but not if he was running away. In any case, I think you'd legally be in the wrong in most states firing upon someone who was fleeing.

 

[thorn726]

iust wouldnt answer to anyone i dont know. people find ou tmy name sometimes, want to bother me abuot nonsense.

another tactic i have seen is the "have you got a light?"

then go into some rigamarole of why i should be giving money, trying to buy whatever drugs they have etc.

anything to get you close enough. i just stay back. been lucky not to have really been mugged so far, helps to look a little crazy at all times

 

[johnnymenudo]

Bear,

You are probably the baddest man in the whole damn town, but unfortunately a great many of THR members probably can't kill a man with their bare hands with any degree of proficiency. I would imagine that even you may someday come across someone that you could not defeat with your bare hands. But its really not relevant anyway. People with your training and expertise would never be so stupid as to respond to their first name when approached by a stranger.

JM

 

[NikoFoxFire]

Now, what your freind did was not only entirely acceptable, but admirable.
A situation that could have VERY readily lead to loss of life didn't, and he lost what, at most 50$? If it were me...

Yeah. Morality and Reality disconnect right about here. I've read innumerable different "I WOULD ICE THAT SUCKAH" posts, but honestly, I wouldn't. A man flashes a sidearm in his waistband, what would I do? I would kick him. In the chest. With a size 13 steel toed boot. (For those of you karate buffs out there, pro-fighters get up to a ton of PSI behind a barefoot kick. Im no pro, but I DO wear boots made of metal.) If he survived, he would have at least a fractured sturnum, and I would be on top of him like a fire on wood. With any luck, the good guys win the day, both ostensible objectives accomplished: No fatalities, and no loss of cash/dignity.

 

[wasrjoe]

Great, a DU troll giving us advice on self defense. When will people understand that it's about more than the money on both sides?

The guy deserved to get shot the moment he showed willingness to end your friend's life, Preacherman.

 

[Jeff White]

NikoFoxFire,
Check your PMs.

Jeff

 

[1911 guy]

Might be overthinking

but maybe a 50 yard pecker punt or that gorilla gets gonads thing might be just the ticket to put distance between the two to give you a better shot at getting your pistol into action without a wrestling match. Just my opinion, but just having a gun isn't enough. Be mentally ready to user it and make it a part of you defensive posture, not the entire plan. As for the "Hey, fat guy with the beard" comment, I think my wife has a corner on that phrase.

 

[JJohnston015]

As an adjunct to the vanity plate thing, I've just recently removed ALL paperwork from my vehicles. I now carry the registration and proof of insurance in my wallet. The car thief will have my garage door opener, but unless he's been following me, he won't know where to use it.

 

[chopinbloc]

in most places the threat of deadly physical force can be met with deadly physical force if that threat is accompanied by obvious means and intent. also, in most places armed robbery can be met with deadly physical force. as to the moral issue, that is for one to decide for one's self. many people carry oc for defense, but few people carry the asp. the 21" version is long enough to knock the bejeezuz out of someone but short enough to carry comfortably concealed. i'd advise nearly anyone of reasonable physical condition to get the training and carry an asp. besides, they're legal in a lot of places that guns aren't for example bars and restaraunts that serve alcohol.