Interesting Time at the Police Dept. Tuesday

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I've just recently moved (like, last week) from the Land of Milk and Honey (New Hampshire) to less libertarian Connecticut. I'm not complaining, I had to move for work, I found a real nice place in a real nice neighborhood, and they let me keep all my guns. Not only that, I already have a state pistol permit, a phone call to the police got my new address put on it and I'm all set to go (now I just have to wait for my out of state from NH!). It could have been a LOT worse (MA, RI, NJ, NY, MD), and I won't be buying that AR-15 anytime soon (CT has their own AWB), but they seem to have a reasonable respect for my right to protect myself and my family, which is all I really care about.

Tuesday, I spend the morning from 8-11 at the DMV getting my ugly mug on a new license. Afterwards I drove on into lovely downtown New Britain to register to vote, and I figured as long as I was there I'd stop by the police department to pick up CCW paperwork for my housemate, who is a long time friend of mine. I was lucky in that I could just change the address on my state permit, if you are already a resident it is about three times the hassle and expense to get a state pistol permit, which is ridiculous, but I digress.

As I'd parked in front of the town hall to do my voter reg, and the police department was only a half mile or so away, I figured I'd walk and see a little of this new place I call home. I was carrying my full size Kimber inside the waist band, with my traditional hawaiian shirt as a cover article. I called the police station ahead of time as long as I was on my way to make sure that they had the forms and I could get them right then and there.

A brief walk through a part of town that had definitely seen a boom, a bust, and was working it's way up again later and I found the police department. Walking up the steps, I was about to go through the front door when I noticed an enormous sign bolted to the opposite wall: "ONLY SWORN PEACE OFFICERS ARE PERMITTED TO CARRY WEAPONS IN THIS BUILDING", per RSA something or other. Normally I'd just put the gun in the car and try again, but the car was another mile round trip away at this point, and besides, I'm not going to inconvenience myself over their stupid rule.

So I got my phone back out and dialed dispatch again. "Hi, I called a little while ago about picking up some pistol permit paperwork? I'm standing outside, and I'd love to come in and get it, but I'm carrying a gun and there's a sign says I'm not welcome."

That seemed to give the woman on the other end a moment for pause, so she asked if she could put me on hold. A minute later she came back on the line and said that someone would be out to help me, and to hold. So I did, casually, phone on my left ear, right hand unconsciously in my pocket.

While several officers came and went, none of them paying me any attention, I failed to realize that I had become the cause of some consternation inside the building. You and I know that I have my permit, and I am here to pick up the paperwork for a friend, but I failed to make that clear to anyone else, so as far as they know there's a man with a gun outside the building looking to get a pistol permit, for which there's probably a fine of life imprisonment in Russia or something ridiculous like that. I normally try and avoid these sorts of situations, but I was feeling a little pugnacious after reading the stupid ordinance and having walked this far to be inconvenienced by it, so I wasn't thinking very carefully.

Eventually, the officer who's going to deal with me comes out and I can tell, since he looks directly at me and holds that look as he approaches and evaluates me. "Get your hand out of your pocket." My expression must have been interesting as it was at this point that I realized that I'd been unclear.

Long story short, he asked me if I was wearing my gun, where it was, and after I very carefully indicated, disarmed me. Then we took a minute for me to explain exactly what was going on here, and why exactly I needed to get into the police station. Once it was clearer that I was not, in fact, a psychopath he had me unload my gun (THAT made me nervous), take off my holster as well, and wait while he went inside to run my license.

Interestingly, nowhere in this discourse did he actually check to see if I had any other guns or weapons on... ordinarily I'm carrying a back up, but it's in the shop. I was, however, wearing my Kershaw Black Blur knife and Surefire E2D LED defender.

Finally he came back outside, brought me in, and I could go and get my paperwork, which took all of 30 seconds. I returned to the lobby and caught his eye behind the glass, and he came back out with my gun.

"So how do you want to do this in reverse?" I asked, since I plainly couldn't reload right here in the lobby of the police station. "Just go outside and turn your back to the street so nobody can see what you're doing", was his reply. So there I was, standing outside a police station, traffic in both directions, facing a tinted window, trying to juggle my paperwork while getting my holster back on my belt, loading a full size 1911, dropping the mag, putting the round that was in the chamber before I was disarmed back in the magazine, re-inserting the magazine, checking the chamber to make sure it was loaded, safetying, holstering, and covering. THAT made me a little nervous.

Stupid. And all because I was very careful to obey the law. Would have been a lot easier if I was a criminal.
 
Yes, law abiding people who OBEY dumb and UNconstitutional laws have to go through more than jerks and criminals.

Amazing, eh? NOT!

Good story and thank you.

Take care.

Catherine
 
I am so glad that there is a great big sign on the door of police HQ in Co Springs, that specifically permits CC in the building as long as you don't unholster. And hey, unless the Terminator's after you why would you need to unholster at the cop shop?
 
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Well... YOU handled it properly. There's really no way to avoid this situation apparently.

Everything stems from the fact that the lady that you spoke with heard the words "outside" and "gun" and consequently soiled herself and got some on her co-workers in the process.

As Treo noted, my only suggestion, albeit completely unrealistic, is to move out here. Excluding the courthouse, I saw my very first firearm-restricting sign today since I've lived here. It was on the door of the city building and it said "Open Carry of Firearms Prohibited". They (both) were already concealed, so I strolled in, did my business, and left with their money.

Nevertheless, I'm glad you weren't hassled any more than you were, and my state is nowhere near perfect, as you will discover if you look at the "big thread" on this first page.
 
I just carried into the police station here in Indiana yesterday, barely concealed.

Not a word was said.

Hurray for PA (occasionally)
 
The people who CCW are a very small minority so how can you expect someone who doesn't CCW (e.g. the dispatch woman was obviously clueless) to know what you meant?

I woudn't ever CCW in a police station, even if it was allowed. All you need is one cop who doesn't understand the law (or doesn't believe in it) or misinterprets you as a potential threat, and the rest of your day will be wasted trying to straighten out the situation.
 
and the rest of your day will be wasted trying to straighten out the situation.

And the rest of your life will be wasted trying to figure out where to spend the settlement.
 
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I woudn't ever CCW in a police station, even if it was allowed. All you need is one cop who doesn't understand the law (or doesn't believe in it) or misinterprets you as a potential threat, and the rest of your day will be wasted trying to straighten out the situation.

How would they know? Concealed means concealed. :confused:
 
The people who CCW are a very small minority so how can you expect someone who doesn't CCW (e.g. the dispatch woman was obviously clueless) to know what you meant?

Perhaps the people who work in law enforcement should be familiar with the law? Would that be asking too much?
 
sacp81170a, this whole post is about the effort I went to as a private citizen specifically TO obey the law. Having obeyed it, I think I can say it's pretty dumb... another law from the wrong-headed perspective that gun owners are just time bombs waiting for exactly the right situation to snap and start shooting people. From a right-headed perspective, why do I have any less of a right to defend myself simply because I'm in a police station? Have police stations never been attacked? Am I going to be the police officers' top priority if it is?

sernv99 said:
I woudn't ever CCW in a police station, even if it was allowed. All you need is one cop who doesn't understand the law (or doesn't believe in it) or misinterprets you as a potential threat, and the rest of your day will be wasted trying to straighten out the situation.
I wouldn't not carry anywhere if I can avoid it, if you live in constant fear of the police mistaking you for a criminal and shooting you, I'm very sorry. Maybe I'm jaded since I'm moving from a state where I regularly open carried (large revolvers!) into the bank, police dept, etc. I've been asked about them by private citizens and police alike, but I have yet to see someone reach for their gun.

Additionally, as Treo notes, I am doing nothing illegal. If a police officer shoots me for that (and trust me, I am not an intimidating guy) it's going to court for sure.

I recounted this story because I thought the community might enjoy it, and because it showcases a way we as private citizens can calmly and respectfully both increase awareness of RKBA and point out laws that are on the books that simply make our lives inconvenient for no good reason.
 
And the rest of your life will be wasted trying to figure out where to spend the settlement.

Not hardly. Officer safety and sovereign immunity are pretty big hurdles to clear, even in a civil rights lawsuit.
 
Not hardly. Officer safety and sovereign immunity are pretty big hurdles to clear, even in a civil rights lawsuit

If I am standing in a place where not only am I legally allowed to carry, but specifically permitted by a sign that the cop inquestion has to walk by everysingle time he walks in the building.

Conducting my lawful business and the aforementioned cop detains,harasses, attacks or otherwise chooses to ruin my day, just because he doesn't "believe in" CC.I think I'd have a pretty damn solid case. I don't know where you're at but I have no problem a Colorado jury would see it my way

But even if they wouldn't , even if I'm wrong as two left shoes. I'm still not going to back down from an action to which I am legally entitled just because it pisses off some cop.
 
Not hardly. Officer safety and sovereign immunity are pretty big hurdles to clear, even in a civil rights lawsuit.

Yes, to quote a movie just coming out "We definitely have a color issue here, but the color in discussion is BLUE".

Not sayin' its right, not sayin' its wrong, just sayin' that it IS.
 
" Additionally, as Treo notes, I am doing nothing illegal. If a police officer shoots me for that (and trust me, I am not an intimidating guy) it's going to court for sure."


yeah, you are going to sue from the grave if he kills you? LOL Reminds me of bicycling activists who believe in the "share the road" laws...yeah right, it will do you no good if you are brain damaged with drool coming down your mouth or even killed, to sue a driver because he ran you off the road.

you also have the right to march down 5th Ave in NYC wearing a Swastika on your shirt. You are doing nothing illegal. Free speech. But don't expect sympathy if you get your butt kicked and killed for doing it.....just like when you didnt clearly relay your intentions to the dispatch and she misinterpreted your call....if you had been killed, it would be partially your own fault...there are cops out there who are too trigger happy even at the slightest thought of you having a weapon and being a threat. How do you know what they are thinking? The cop stepping outside the police station doesn't know you, doesnt know if you really have your permit, doesn't know what your next action will be....
 
I can see it now...

The dispatcher turned to someone and said, "there's a guy carrying a gun outside on line one asking about paperwork to carry a gun."

That triggered a chain of events leading to your being checked out.

Keeping in mind, of course, that as you indicated, you'd "been unclear," and had your hand in your pocket.

I'd not have had to load you gun curbside in front of my work, though. I'd have handed it back to you, outside, either loaded for carry or unloaded to carry away to load elsewhere; the choice being yours.
 
yeah, you are going to sue from the grave if he kills you?

Why,exactly, would a cop shoot a man W/ empty hands, who's standing there doing nothing?

Do you live in Chicago?
 
"Hi, I called a little while ago about picking up some pistol permit paperwork? I'm standing outside, and I'd love to come in and get it, but I'm carrying a gun and there's a sign says I'm not welcome."
:scrutiny:
Words mean things, and can also often convey things, correctly or incorrectly, unspoken ...

Me? I might've gone a different way ...

"Hi, my name is John Friendly. I called a little while ago and spoke to someone about picking up some gun permit paperwork? Was that you? Anyway, I just arrived to pick it up and saw the posted sign outside your building about only sworn police officers being allowed to carry weapons into your building.

I'm sorry, but unfortunately I didn't know that when I parked my car about half a mile away and walked here, seeing some of the local sights on the way, so I can't easily leave my lawfully carried concealed handgun & lockblade knife in the car before entering your building. Is there a gun locker area nearby, maybe at another entrance, or just inside the door an officer could point out to me, where I could secure my weapons before entering? Or should I just walk back to my car and secure my gun & knife in my car? It'd sure be easier if there were something like a nearby gun locker I could use, though. Sorry I didn't think to ask when I called the first time."


FWIW, I wouldn't presume my lawfully carried/concealed LEOSA off-duty weapon would necessarily be welcome inside another state's LE agency, at least unannounced, if I were only there for unofficial off-duty/retired purpose. (Ditto any lockblade knives which might be considered as weapons under local ordinances and/or court orders when entering official govt buildings.)

Doesn't hurt to politely ask. Someone else's local rules may seem a bit different than that to which we're accustomed. No reason to automatically take offense to what's probably locally perceived to be common sense officer/facility safety rules which may have been in place somewhere for a long time. Might even have been put in place in the aftermath of an unfortunate event in the past, too. You never know.

Never hurts to be polite and avoid any unnecessary aggravation, annoyance and potential inconvenience all the way around, does it? Especially if I were going to be living in that area, I'd think.

Just my personal thoughts.
 
Treo...I don't think anything written by the OP indicates that the cop was p*ssed off.

There is a big difference between having a legal claim...and having a legal claim that you can recover against. I can't tell you what the standard for recovery would be in a case like the one listed by the OP...but I am telling you that you will have a VERY tough road to hoe if you wanted to bring a civil rights lawsuit based on the facts listed.

Before you even get to the jury you are going to have to overcome all kinds of legal hurdles....and they aren't easy. Despite what conservative talk show hosts say...the system does not hand out big verdicts like candy. Beating the government on things like immunity and de minimis interference with civil rights is not easy.

Further...your settlement is going to be a reflection of the damages suffered. I don't see any damages here, except perhaps for nominal damages. Yes, the cop temporarily detained and searched the OP. Yes, this may be a violation of the OP's civil rights (not likely given issues like immunity, probable cause, good faith by the officer, etc.) yes, the OP was disarmed during the search...but beyond the affront to the OP's sensibilities and the de minimis infringement of his civil rights, what damages can he claim? If there aren't any damages...great...he is limited to claims for nominal (and punitive...but I am not seeing anything that rises to punitive here) damages. The jury can decide in your favor and award you a $1.

You may not want to back down from your legal action on principle...and your attorney (should they be successful) can go after fees...I just don't think the "case" described by the OP is so egregious that you'd find someone willing to prosecute it for you. Now, had the OP had been shot, and god forbid killed in front of the Police station, his estate might have a claim that a lawyer would run with.

Then again...I am not a lawyer...this isn't legal advice...and your mileage may vary. Perhaps the OP should contact a civil rights attorney in CT to bring one of those frivolous lawsuits I always hear so much about.
 
Whoah Whoah whoah. I don't want to legal anything anyone. Anywhere. I was not offended, the officer was totally professional, I just found the experience interesting. I played it the way I did only because I felt I was in the moral (and legal) right. I found it interesting that there was a town ordinance prohibiting carry in this "special building" and no plan in place to deal with a citizen like myself simply trying to conduct personal business. If I have to have a team of eunuchs follow me around with a lockbox since every other building has some special ordinance... That seems a little ridiculous. I should be able to walk around town.
 
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I think we've got a couple different scenarios going on here in Bennet's I don't think there's much to take to court, but in sernv99's I got shot I'm calling Frank Azar ( local ambulance chaser) He'll make them PAAAAAY!
(local ambulance chaser's slogan)
 
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