Harassed by police in Thermopolis, WY

[beatcop]

rfurtkamp- "And I have the right to shoot to stop any felony in progress here, including stupid ones that pose no threat to anyone. The guy who lives across the street with no license that was revoked for DUI, that's a good shoot but I don't take it."

Sir, please give that a second look. Even the PD cannot use deadly force for non-violent felonies...it's a Supreme Court ruling (Tennessee V. Garner). You will do time if you mess this one up.

Operating with a suspended license is a misdemeanor in most states....only a motor vehicle violation. Please do not engage anyone unless life or limb is in danger.

 

[Treo]

The side of the road is never the place to argue case law W/ a cop. It's also never the place to inform him you intend to make a complaint.

The side of the road is the place to calmly, politely and firmly assert your rights.

I never advocate arguing W/ a cop, the more you say the more likely you are to say something that could be used against you.

I never advocate resisting a cop even if he's arresting you illegally it's still a crime to resist.

If I get stopped on the sidewalk I give my name ( not my I.D.) ( Hiible Vs. The Sixth Judicial Court of Nevada) And ask if I'm free to leave if I'm not. I state that I want to talk to a lawyer and shut up.

If during the encounter the cop steps over the line I send a nasty gram to his/her superior. Never had call to contact a civil rights attorney yet but that would be next.

I recomend this book

You And The Police
Javelin Press
Kenneth W.Royce ( Boston T. Party)

To any one reading this thread

 

[rfurtkamp]

Operating with a suspended license is a misdemeanor in most states....only a motor vehicle violation. Please do not engage anyone unless life or limb is in danger.

Felony on a revoked here. But as I said, I don't *need* to do it, just that there's a law on the books that absolves me if I do. Felony in progress gets you off the hook as a civilian, again, not that I want to go there.

I'm not bound by police rules of conduct, continuum of force, or any of that since I am not a sworn police officer. Court rulings on police use of force do not apply to me as a lowly peon ;0

And yes, I've consulted and retained a competent attorney in my jurisdiction.

 

[7.62X25mm]

If you're walking down the streets at midnight with two Glocks in your pockets and an "attitude" -- which seems demonstrable in your post -- I want the police to stop you for a "chat and pat."

If you're walking down the street late at night in rural America, in the neighborhood of a motel or truck stop, the police are going to stop you because you're not "local" and they have a legal right to ask you what you're doing in their town, late at night, walking the streets.

And what they're looking for is behavior which gives them "probable cause" to look further into your behavior. You gave it to them.

The first thing you should have done, regardless whether it's "law" or not, is inform these LEO's that you're armed and have a CCW.

Personally, I'm getting tired of the online posts which run something to the effect: "I was armed to the teeth as afforded by RKBA and the Bill of Rights. These police are stupid Nazis and I need to set them straight."

I've never been stopped by police and harassed for having a CCW. I've been stopped by police here and there, routine traffic and "just checking the neighborhood" late at night. They've always been polite as hell, but then I've always been polite too.

Typically, if you get confrontive with police, they reciprocate. If you're cooperative, they reciprocate. You should maybe have a talk with them about the other jerks they have to deal with day in and day out.

:banghead:

 

[M203Sniper]

Sounds like you were simply the subject of a BOLO or ATL.

You look like someone else in that area - in the dark. Don't fault the cop, he's looking for a BG. Be glad they're out there and you weren't the one they were looking for.

I would have liked to see you're reaction when the rookie put his hand to his sidearm....

 

[rfurtkamp]

Typically, if you get confrontive with police, they reciprocate. If you're cooperative, they reciprocate.

Depends on jurisdiciton and circumstance. We have the only sheriff in the state who had to be sued when shall issue went in to actually issue permits, the local PD is run by somebody from NJ and the attitude that nobody should have guns carries over to supervisory officers and most of the newer street cops I've met.

I never volunteer anything with them any more, ever.

I don't expect others in even worse locales to be any more fortcoming.

 

[SuperNaut]

Typically, if you get confrontive with police, they reciprocate. If you're cooperative, they reciprocate.

This is not consistent with my experience.

You should maybe have a talk with them about the other jerks they have to deal with day in and day out.

How about; no.

It is not my responsibility to help make a cop's job easier. If policemen are having difficulty with the "other jerks they have to deal with" then maybe they are in the wrong line of work?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

there exists in popular society a very unflattering stereotypical image of "the gun nut". ever wonder where it came from? or how it gets blown bigger? reading some posts here are amusing in a tragic kinda way.

 

[SuperNaut]

So a 50 year old, clean cut guy, just iced a family of 4 up the street. Cops respond but pay no attention to the guy who "doesn't look harmful," media goes ballistic that they let the guy get away 3 cops lose there job and get in serious trouble, and are never hired again. To dismiss stuff as unimportant when your a cops is a good way to get your butt fired.

IOW, if this were an entirely different situation with entirely different players in an entirely different universe it would have an entirely different outcome.

 

[beatcop]

rfurtkamp-

You are right, LEO standards are a little different because they can "deprive someone of their rights under color of law", which is a violation of their civil rights.

You have more knowledge of Idaho statutes than I do, but do me a favor and check that one more time. Some states allow lethal force to be used when someone is trying to commit arson, force entry, etc, but if you shoot someone who doesn't represent a physical threat, it's hard to justify the force.

Shooting someone for trying to cash a check for a million dollars just doesn't fly (trying to make up a non-violent felony here folks). Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but my take on this is if there's no compelling "reason" why someone needs to be stopped you're going to get pinched for manslaughter. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[SuperNaut]

there exists in popular society a very unflattering stereotypical image of "the gun nut". ever wonder where it came from? or how it gets blown bigger? reading some posts here are amusing in a tragic kinda way.

This is a strange response coming from a member of THR, since THR is the premier watering hole of gun-nuts worldwide. While I understand that stereotypes are a cop's stock-in-trade, I'm not quite sure what the police or the public have to fear from the stereotypical gun-nut?

Shouldn't the concern should be for the atypical, not the typical?

 

[22lr]

See my point is made, civilians have a tough time understanding cops. You have no idea how easy it is for a cop to lose his job, end up in jail, or get in big trouble because he didn't investigate something that he saw.

Im not a cop but from talking to them (ya there real people) you would be surprised how much crap they deal with from guys like myself and yall who think they know there rights and don't cooperate. Personally id never just ignore a LEO but it is well within my rights to do so. These guys deal with enough crap, they don't need more from me or you. And what ever you do don't get mad at them for doing there job. Why don't you complain about the law instead of the poor guys who have to enforce it.

 

[7.62X25mm]

This is a strange response coming from a member of THR, since THR is the premier watering hole of gun-nuts worldwide.

No. It's not. Premier gun-nut watering holes discuss political issues, because Article II, Bill of Rights is political.

 

[SSN Vet]

Because our society has chosen to focus on the rights of criminals and has abandoned the concept of punishing them, we have defaulted to the only option that's left....punishing everybody else, who didn't commit a crime (by infringing on their rights in an attempt to somehow restrain criminals .... who don't care if they obey the law or not)

It's no different than the 2nd grade teacher who punishes the entire class with restrictions because one kid (likely some school board members son or a star athlete) stuck his gum on the bottom of a desk.

 

[ccsniper]

somewhat similar, my dad and i were going shooting and the cops in my town have really nothing to do. so, my dad races through a yellow light, red lights come on. the cop barely gets to the truck when he notices 2 gun cases in the bed. jumps back almost falling over, grabs his gun shouts "hands where i can see em punk". my dad nearly fell out of the truck laughing. the cop starts laughing and realizes he knows my dad. he said it was a joke, but i think he was truly scared we would jump out of the truck unlock the cases load the guns and shoot him before he got his sidearm out.

 

[SuperNaut]

22lr, I don't care how tough a cop's job is, I just don't care. If the job is too tough, find a different job. I can get mad at them for screwing up just as I can get mad at the butcher if he screws up a proper cut. The biggest difference is, my rights aren't violated when the butcher screws up.

 

[jackdanson]

Have others had similar situations?

I had the exact same thing happen, but I wasn't even carrying. I was kept in place for 20+ minutes while the police searched the ground for "what I dropped back there." (nothing, btw). It is humiliating and wrong. Afterwards they told me to go back home, as I had no reason to be out at night. I work evenings, so 11 pm for me is like 5 pm for everyone else, sometimes when I come home I want to go for a walk. Furthermore what if they had found a pipe or something someone had thrown out the window? I would have been screwed.

 

[SuperNaut]

No. It's not. Premier gun-nut watering holes discuss political issues, because Article II, Bill of Rights is political.

*shrug*

 

[Maelstrom]

I also notice when they have their pictures in the paper their is never anyone smiling

Oh my GOD that is hilarious!

He's actually complaining that pictures of cops don't show them grinning like idiots.

 

[Treo]

they have a legal right to ask you what you're doing in their town, late at night, walking the streets.

And I have a legal right not to answer.

The first thing you should have done, regardless whether it's "law" or not, is inform these LEO's that you're armed and have a CCW

Umm..... no

 

[ravonaf]

I'm amazed so many people think LEO's are not civilians. Cops are not the military folks. There is no UCMJ that governs their actions. They are not granted special privileges by the Federal government.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Couldn't someone with those infrared binoculars see through the OP's clothing and see those guns without them even being visible?

If so, perhaps someone DOES sit and watch from somewhere, looking for guys that have weapons, or worse, weapons and/or illegal drugs.

I don't know, I never looked through a pair, but I understand some LE use them.

 

[moi_self26]

While I understand it was annoying to have to deal with, I really don't see the big deal. All they did was verify your information and that you were legally carrying your guns. I could understand an upset if they physically restrained you in any manner, or if they were verbally abusive, took your guns, or anything to that effect..... but this was nothing more than a minor inconvenience. I've heard stories were the cops crossed the line, this isn't one of them.

 

[Deanimator]

Typically, if you get confrontive with police, they reciprocate. If you're cooperative, they reciprocate. You should maybe have a talk with them about the other jerks they have to deal with day in and day out.

Not just untrue, ludicrously untrue, as I've posted recently. A guy stopped for alleged failure to stop at a stop sign politely notified and was promptly FALSELY arrested for "crossing state lines with a loaded gun", "having hollowpoints", etc. He was promptly released by a magistrate who STATED that he'd been falsely arrested. He's sueing.

Don't make foolishly overbroad statements. They make you look bad.

 

[cobra2411]

Typically, if you get confrontive with police, they reciprocate. If you're cooperative, they reciprocate.

The key is to be polite, respectful and non-confrontational, but maintain your rights at all times.

The decision to inform LEO's that you're armed depends on the law where you're at and the situation. In PA I DO NOT have to inform officers that I'm armed. The first thing I do is respond in a polite non-threatening way, even if they're buttholes... I then ask if I can leave....

BTW, being polite doesn't necessarily mean cooperating, it means not spitting in their face or telling them off...

The worst encounter I've had with a LEO was ended by me simply asking to leave.... He believed I had run a light and was trying to get me to admit it, to the point of screaming at me. That's when I looked at him and said "Are you going to write me a ticket or am I free to go?" He handed me my license and that was the end of it.

The only armed encounter with a LEO was at a former business I had. My partner and I frequently worked late and always forgot to lock the door. The local police would check businesses from time to time and more then once they walked in while I was OC... The only thing that was ever said was an offhand comment like "it looks like you have everything under control"....

I have a friend that drew his gun on an officer. It was about 3am and there had been some break in's in the neighborhood. The police wanted to check/notify residents and a LEO started pounding on the front door; like break the door off the hinges pounding.... So my friend opened the door with his 629 in hand... He said the officer peed himself (not that I believe it, but it might be true)... The only thing that was said? "Thank god you're one of the good guys..." The officer explained why he was knocking and they shoot the breeze about guns for a little and that was it...

I would argue that most LEO's are good guys, but you never know when you're going to run into the bad apple that is "really" excited to be a LEO....